Tormod Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 =) I say, what about the space that "space" grow into??? The definition of space extends to what is inside our universe. There is no "outside" of our universe. So space does not grow into anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatlack Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 This is the point. There is no difference between space and outside. If we say "space" , there is many other "space" at all.This is smilar to say in an island "it is the only island , there is nothing else" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bang Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Tormod I think your fighting a losing battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aki Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 There's nothing outside of the universe. It's either space or nothingness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-qu Posted June 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 If there is nothing ourside our universe than how can it be shaped? you cant look from the ourside and say it is 'such and such' shaped... BTW we cant be talking about 3d shapes, right? more like hyper- shapes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 This is the point. There is no difference between space and outside. If we say "space" , there is many other "space" at all.This is smilar to say in an island "it is the only island , there is nothing else" No, you are misinterpreting my post. Your island is in and ocean, but there is no ocean outside the ocean. The ocean has a limit. There can be more than one ocean, but they have the same properties. Space is slightly different. A galaxy - in fact, everything in the universe - exists within spacetime. The only spacetime we know is the one inside our universe. The properties of spacetime are defined by very few things (read for example, the book "Just Six Numbers" by Sir Martin Rees). As far as we know there is no space "outside" the universe. In fact, there is no sense in talking about the outside of the universe as the universe is the definition of everything. If there are other universes they will be different than ours. This is of course highly speculative and cannot be proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 If there is nothing ourside our universe than how can it be shaped? you cant look from the ourside and say it is 'such and such' shaped... BTW we cant be talking about 3d shapes, right? more like hyper- shapes? This is a very good question - which I posed a page or two back. What is the universe shaped in relation to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Tormod I think your fighting a losing battle. Which battle? What am I losing? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bang Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Forget it, I guess you have to be a Texan to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-qu Posted June 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 there is no battle here, where all on the same side, just some of us have different opinions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcreation Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Forget it, I guess you have to be a Texan to understand. I understand little bang. I used to live in San Antonio, Fort Sam Houston, and later in Houston, Montrose district. Cool. I new we would find some common ground. Jay-qu. All this sound like intellectual taltari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 A lot of the earlier models for expansion of a BB just asumed a spherical one (itmade the math easier). With Guth's inflation theory and now the concept that possibly hidden dimensions lurk in superstring theory. This hidden assumptionis no longer made (need to be much more cautious). As to answer Jay-qu question as to how could the space be spherical if there is nooutside can be answered a number of ways. First, a notion coined by John ArchibaldWheeler of University of Texas called the Multiverse which could be thought of as acontainer for all the universes that exist. The many worlds theory by Everett hasthese all be copies of the same one, each taking a different causal branch. Wheelerhimself didn't make this requirement. Second another way to think about the "space"we exist in is to consider how curved is it. A closed universe can be thought as a4-dimensional hypersphere (any direction carries you back to where you started).Eucldiian space is flat in all directions and has a curvature of 1.0 while a closeduniverse is greater than 1.0. A hyperbolic universe (saddle shaped) would be when the radius of curvature is less than 1.0. It is Einstein's GR that explainswhich way to go by the density of the universe. Evidence now suggests (fromWMAP observer) that the universe is somewhat saddle shaped and acceleratingits expansion. This has modified and somewhat vindicated Guth's inflationTheory. I recomend anyone who wishes to know more to read Brian Greene'snew book, "Fabric of the Cosmos". I have found it fascinating! I am just nowgetting to the String Theories. As to the topic of this thread: "Nothing Absolute", except for Absolutely nothing. ;-) maddog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindagarrette Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Maybe the Universe is funnel shaped. http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/9999/99994879F1.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-qu Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 i dont now how anyone could possibly find irrefutable evidence of the universes shape - at least from inside it... because it doest seem to make all that much of a difference, unless you could fly at superliminal speeds and traverse the universe to find yourself back in the same spot - but then it only proves that in that one direction it curves back on itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatlack Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 ;) I cant tell what I mean because of my non-improved english. ;) I will reply this after working on a paragraph. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 i dont now how anyone could possibly find irrefutable evidence of the universes shape - at least from inside it I believe that we are able to test the universe's shape in much the same way we were able to show that the earth was spherical before we could actually see it. We measure how curved the universe seems to be, and base our idea of its shape off of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumab Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 This is a very good question - which I posed a page or two back. What is the universe shaped in relation to? Great question, but things can be shaped relative to themselves. Sphere's are always eqidistant from their center, squares have perpendicular sides... I'm not sure there's any new difficulties in the whole higher dimension arena, but I can't imagine any... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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