What Killed This Genre?

[CmdrShep2154]

Space opera used to be popular on TV. We had stuff like like Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Firefly and Babylon 5. No current show on TV takes place aboard a spaceship. So what killed the genre? Bad acting? Considered too nerdy by the general population? Stupid looking aliens? Low quality special effects? Horrible or unrelatable stories? Maybe we were spoiled by the high quality of shows like Game of Thrones or The Walking Dead which makes developing a space opera that would appeal to this generation take a immense amount of resources.

Edited November 30, 2014 by CmdrShep2154

[Moontanman]

I wish I had an answer for you, I know that to me the new star trek movies are shite. I liked the STNG universe extremely well and i think new movies or TV shows set in that universe would be a great idea. I think the lack of non human aliens makes all the star trek shows a bit naive and they could benefit from more non human aliens, possibly exploring another galaxy. Lots of directions are still open for the shows to cater to the people who like the more cerebral as well as those who like the shoot em up type shows.

 

This Enterprise is very compelling for a new show:

 

 

 

I know a remake of the TOS is being made in Europe, I've seen some of it and so far it looks pretty cool, kind of retro/steam punk star trek compared to STNG. 

 

All we can do is hope if a new star trek type show comes out they don't let J.J. Abrams with in several light years of the production... 

[ErlyRisa]

To me ... its the fake hope.

 

For example I grew up watching it, with the underlying impression that humanity was working towards such advancements. Now that many of us that grew up in the Jetson and post Jetson economy of false technological hope, and we are aware of basic energy equation(s) and logic. We have realised that the point of such stories is just that: To be immersed in the story, and to have not wasted my brain cells trying to mathematically adjust that which has already been known into something which (is now pretty much provable) --F'n impossible.

 

ie. I am disappointed that as a child I was given false hope, all while the people writing/profiting were driving around in 6ton Chevys...and are now telling me we are out of; not only energy...but are scared too provide false hope when we as artists didn't understand the energy equations...we were just trying to instill hope. It is sad that finally the physicists with half a brain cell have told the artists to put up or shut up, b/c floating space vehicles beyond the speed of light is impossible.

 

There are some: Newish...styles that pronounce solutions: Many of which the versed and the lame disagree with as a solution for procuring humans.

 

The solution is to try to instill a 1920's style quality of life, and not providing time wasting attributes in society (like extravagant impossible physics eg. walking on water or flying off a city building)....and applying full CGI style disney bull - ie. it is just that, complete and utter fantasy (Bambi/Charlie Champman) , and is usable for my children - to instill a societal dynamic that we are aware of existing in the past.

 

PS: Are we still singin 99 luft Balloons? - b/c we get it....the ans: is NOTHING!

[Moontanman]

To me ... its the fake hope.

 

For example I grew up watching it, with the underlying impression that humanity was working towards such advancements. Now that many of us that grew up in the Jetson and post Jetson economy of false technological hope, and we are aware of basic energy equation(s) and logic. We have realised that the point of such stories is just that: To be immersed in the story, and to have not wasted my brain cells trying to mathematically adjust that which has already been known into something which (is now pretty much provable) --F'n impossible.

 

ie. I am disappointed that as a child I was given false hope, all while the people writing/profiting were driving around in 6ton Chevys...and are now telling me we are out of; not only energy...but are scared too provide false hope when we as artists didn't understand the energy equations...we were just trying to instill hope. It is sad that finally the physicists with half a brain cell have told the artists to put up or shut up, b/c floating space vehicles beyond the speed of light is impossible.

 

There are some: Newish...styles that pronounce solutions: Many of which the versed and the lame disagree with as a solution for procuring humans.

 

The solution is to try to instill a 1920's style quality of life, and not providing time wasting attributes in society (like extravagant impossible physics eg. walking on water or flying off a city building)....and applying full CGI style disney bull - ie. it is just that, complete and utter fantasy (Bambi/Charlie Champman) , and is usable for my children - to instill a societal dynamic that we are aware of existing in the past.

 

PS: Are we still singin 99 luft Balloons? - b/c we get it....the ans: is NOTHING!

 

Did you post in the correct thread? I am having trouble understanding your point.. 

[Buffy]

Moderator's note: This is an occasional warning that drunk-posting is generally a really bad idea. We do reserve the right to delete posts when they don't meet community standards.

 

 

I am returning this otherwise good typing paper to you because someone has printed gibberish all over it and put your name at the top, :phones:

Buffy

[Deepwater6]

http://www.space.com/27895-wanderers-science-fiction-short-film.html

I also yen for additional space shows/movies. In particular ones with authentic looking platforms. I also strongly value keeping the storyline meshing movie over movie.

I found this short film on Space.com. It's not very much, but on some level film in this genre is an escape from the grind our everyday lives. With that in mind I'll take whatever I can get my hands on.

[Deepwater6]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/02/opinion/beale-star-wars/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

 

I think the Star Wars trilogies capture a little more than this author gives them credit for. For instance, there is no doubt that it has mimicked both the US Congress and the UN in showing how diverse points of view and cultures can stay bogged down, stalemated, and mired in endless debate. 

[CraigD]

What Killed This Genre

I don’t think the space opera as a TV show genre is dead.

 

Check out this Mar 2014 Hollywood Reporter article, which quotes SyFy channel president Dave Howe saying he intends to “ going back to the more traditional sci-fi/fantasy that fans often say they feel we've exited", and notes that that the channel “has not had a celebrated and commercial breakout since Battlestar Galactica wrapped in 2009.”

 

So SyFy’s looking to make some space opera, starting 15 Dec 2014 Ascension, a 6 1-hour episode show murder mystery set on a generation ship to Proxima Centuri, which sounds about as space opera-y as the it gets.

 

I know that to me the new star trek movies are shite. I liked the STNG universe extremely well and i think new movies or TV shows set in that universe would be a great idea.

I feel the same.

 

I didn’t find the JJ Abrams’ STTOS reboot movies lacking technically, liking their idea of a rebooting time-loop, but where the 1960s shows, even in their most war-storyish moments, seemed to me a rejection of war, the 2009 and 2013 movies felt to me like military recruitment films, which I didn't like. I’m pretty sure Gene Rodenberry wouldn’t have approved, either.

 

To me ... its the fake hope.

 

For example I grew up watching it, with the underlying impression that humanity was working towards such advancements. Now that many of us that grew up in the Jetson and post Jetson economy of false technological hope, and we are aware of basic energy equation(s) and logic.

I think you’re correct that a lot of 1990+ culture arises from a sense of false promises, among them those of 1960s space opera, especially STTOS

 

However, I don’t think the failed promises are primarily technological – in many regards, our technology, especially computerized information, communication, and entertainment, is much better than promised, far ahead of the fictional future histories.

 

By conventional definition, “space opera” uses the trappings of science and technology to tell essentially old-fashioned stories about human nature. It’s about personal and social themes, not scientific and technical prediction.

 

IMHO, the promise from Star Trek that seems least likely is socioeconomic. STTOS and STTNG predicted an unabashedly non-capitalistic, moneyless, classless meritocratic future society. Following the collapse of the USSR in 1991, it’s a common wisdom given that Capitalism, money and social class are here to stay. I believe that, American and similar nations’ people are, on average, more cynical and pessimistic than they were in the 1960s and ‘70s.

[Buffy]

I think you're all missing out on some fabulous SciFi that's been on teevee the last few years.

 

Just a few of my faves:

• Orphan Black
• Continuum
• (New) Doctor Who
• Alphas
• The 100
• Defiance
• Revolution
• Warehouse 13
• Dominion

 

Now none of these except Doctor Who and maybe The 100 really gets close to "space opera," but I consider that to be just a small fraction of the entire space of Science Fiction.

 

In fact my grandmother used that term as a pejorative to peg things like Dune as not holding a candle to "real" SciFi, even that taking place in outer space like say Redezvous with Rama or even The Foundation Trilogy.

 

 

Our minds are like our stomachs; they are whetted by the change of their food, and variety supplies both with fresh appetites, :phones:

Buffy

[ErlyRisa]

...continuation of my addition too topic (false promises)

 

 

 

Sadly I am one of those kids: Thankfully I didn't commit suicide too the tune of Smells like teen spirit OR Jump for joy and my friends simply state: Oh well no one makes it the first time.

 

ie. I can see actual "instructions" in some of the material.

 

It is true that it awakens the senses, and provides deliberation for the versed (especially those already in the entertainment industry). but I am switching over too the Harry Potter styled stuff now: At least it is realistic in some sense.

 

There is one film (Serenity) that closes the door on the overly imaginative take on physics in past films. The ships are realistic and there is no such thing as anti gravity (only ion drive - and it too is highlighted in the film just how slow a real ion drive would be) ... and there is no interstellar, only interplanatery travel. ie. Time frames are realistic (almost).

 

The recent advancement in CGI has helped with recent films (The software itself is more handy - more like CAD, with realism) , true films have to be artisitc, but since Space Odessey opened our imagination, many of us weren't watching the story line...we were keeping score on whether or not any of the art would come to fruition.

 

---well, the TriQuarter did...turns out it wasn't such a great idea. (women - iPhone)

[Moontanman]

I think you're all missing out on some fabulous SciFi that's been on teevee the last few years.

 

Just a few of my faves:

• Orphan Black
• Continuum
• (New) Doctor Who
• Alphas
• The 100
• Defiance
• Revolution
• Warehouse 13
• Dominion

 

Now none of these except Doctor Who and maybe The 100 really gets close to "space opera," but I consider that to be just a small fraction of the entire space of Science Fiction.

 

In fact my grandmother used that term as a pejorative to peg things like Dune as not holding a candle to "real" SciFi, even that taking place in outer space like say Redezvous with Rama or even The Foundation Trilogy.

 

 

Our minds are like our stomachs; they are whetted by the change of their food, and variety supplies both with fresh appetites, :phones:

Buffy

 

 

I like Continuum quite a bit and Warehouse 13, but I've never heard of Dominion, what channel is it on? 

[Buffy]

I like Continuum quite a bit and Warehouse 13, but I've never heard of Dominion, what channel is it on? 

 

Dominion is arguably fantasy since it involves angels (specifically Christian ones), but it is set in a post-apocalyptic Las Vegas (renamed "Vega" but with all the casinos still there behind a wall), with a wonderfully evil Anthony Stewart Head (Giles in Buffy) as the "mayor." It got devastatingly bad reviews when in premiered on SyFy channel, but it kind of grew on me.

 

Defiance though (also on SyFy) is absolutely delightful, with all sorts of themes about differences between races (well, literally aliens) in a rough urban (but really old west) environment.

 

 

It was a war. You generally try to win those. You should know; you butchered enough of my people, :phones:

Buffy

[CraigD]

There is one film (Serenity) that closes the door on the overly imaginative take on physics in past films. The ships are realistic and there is no such thing as anti gravity (only ion drive - and it too is highlighted in the film just how slow a real ion drive would be) ... and there is no interstellar, only interplanatery travel. ie. Time frames are realistic (almost).

I love the Firefly/Serenity fictional universe!

 

Alas, I think you err, ErlyRisa, in your view that the Firefly TV series and its post-cancelation movie Serenity has much sounder science than other space operas.

 

According to lots of work by its fans, Firefly’s fictional “’verse” is a product of extensive huge-scale engineering of a cluster of 5 stars spanning about 400 AUs (compare to the solar system as defined by the orbit of Neptune, which is about 60 AUs in diameter), with many moons and planets terraformed to have Earth-like environments, and several gas giants and brown dwarfs “helioformed” to be useful suns for their surrounding moon/planets. Such distances can plausibly be crossed by spaceships like those shown in the show in the timeframes – a few days or weeks – show.

 

Firefly’s fictional technology, however, is as wild as most, featuring artificial gravity, gravity-blocking, inertia-reducting “pulse drives” that allow them to be accelerated at many times what the force of their rocket motors could otherwise afford. IMHO, this is more plausible than “warp drive” and similar space opera staples, allowing Relativity to be upheld, but it’s still a leap of science fictional faith, imagining future physics discoveries that no present day theory suggest are possible, and fraught with basic mechanical nonsense.

 

All of this and more can be browsed at The Firefly and Serenity Database

 

If, like me, you enjoy science fiction physics that makes only a few wild assumptions, like Firefly’s, you might enjoy the 1998-1999 anime series Cowboy Bebop. Set in our solar system in the 21st century, it features realistic rocket ships, no artificial gravity (the title ship, “Bebop”, features a centrifuge section to provide pseudo-gravity), with sizable human population on Venus, Earth, the Moon, some asteroids, some moons of Jupiter and Saturn, and, in a single prison colony, Pluto.

 

As the ships of Cowboy Bebop would require plot-troublesome months or years to travel between its inhabited moons and planets, the show features a scientifically implausible “astral gate” technology that allows vessels to travel between large “gate” machines placed near important locations like Venus, Earth, Mars, and Jupiter’s moon Ganymede at 240 times the speed the would otherwise have.

 

Fan-maintained Cowboy Bebop lore can be browses at the Cowboy Bebop Wiki.

[ErlyRisa]

I love the Firefly/Serenity fictional universe!

 

Alas, I think you err, ErlyRisa, in your view that the Firefly TV series and its post-cancelation movie Serenity has much sounder science than other space operas.

 

*/See repeated content above previous post/*

Fan-maintained Cowboy Bebop lore can be browses at the Cowboy Bebop Wiki.

 

 

Yeah I like Cowboy Be Bop - never watched it fully, -I never get to catch it.

 

Firefly I have never seen, but it gets quoted alot. ... The Serenity I saw was a one off Movie, it had that Terminator chick in it (From the Series Terminator), but you Firefly description seems to mesh what what I saw in the film.

 

...Yeah they do quote some phrases, and some of the spaceship movements are unphysical,  - but the chase scene with the yellow crew carrier is what I was refering too with the ion drive. The vehicles method of drive is not mentioned...but its obvious the CGI guys are trying to state something that is "different" about this vehicle. ie you question: If it's floating why is it going so slow...and then you get an ahha moment. The thing is that this ahha moment required you to watch a whole lot of fanciful physics movies first hand.

 

--I like the end to the movie: All the office workers fell asleep --GOOD!!

[Moontanman]

Has anyone seen this reboot of Star Trek TOS?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLjApD7qFmc

[CraigD]

Has anyone seen this reboot of Star Trek TOS?

I watched the “World Enough and Time” episode about a year ago, and liked it well, so after reading your post, decided to watch the rest, catching up to the latest episode, “The Mind-Sifter”, which was released just last week.

 

The existence of Star Trek: New Voyages/Phase II – which is now something more than a fan produced homage, having some professional actors and writing by former writers for TOS and TNG – is evidence that Space Opera isn’t dead, but considering STNV releases at about 1/50th the rate of the commercially produced TV shows, this franchise can at least be said to be hibernating.

 

Well worth a watch by any STrek fans, who haven’t already, though. :thumbs_up