Is the universe infinite?

[borgius]

Dear modest,

 

 

Sorry about the caps... I did not mean to shout... especially not to you...

 

I came here to ask a question, hoping that someone might have some "ideas".

 

From your remarks: "The second sentence seems to contradict the first."

Thanks for the education... but I don't see how this relates to the topic.

 

Also from you: "I don't see how it's related to the topic. Maddog's point is valid. Empty space, according to quantum field theory, is never truly empty. It has a vacuum expectation value. If this is unsatisfying then you might ponder a quote from Einstein on the subject, "People before me believed that if all the matter in the universe were removed, only space and time would exist. My theory proves that space and time would disappear along with matter." But, I really don't see how it's related to the topic."

 

I thought we were talking about the infinity of the Universe. If you don't see how infinity and emptiness are related, you may try to open your mind a bit. Just as Einstein and your other favorites should/should have...

[turak]

If we accept the BIg Bang theory then space wasn't always there.

 

 

There are topologies that allow for a finite universe that has no edge. It doesn't matter that you (or I) don't understand the maths - it is possible, so your argument for infinity based on incredulity won't stand.

 

You call this science?

 

For gods sake stop treating unproven hypotheses as if they are proven scientific facts.

 

If you want to talk about hypotheses which have no scientific proof: then start up a conjecture forum for imaginary fiction.

 

If you want to deal with the Universe we all live in scientifically: then use logic and proven facts.

 

NEW RULE: Stop mixing these two up! It's like mixing up imaginary weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when there weren't any, and there aren't any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

[modest]

A closed Friedmann model is a finite universe that has no edge. "There are topologies that allow for a finite universe that has no edge" is scientific fact. Iraq has nothing to do with anything.

 

~modest

[Ken]

String theory does not prove otherwise. String theory would better be described, in my view, as string hypothesis, since no evidence has been brought forward to support it. I am not even sure that all versions of string theory call for an infinite universe. your argument just doesn't wash, since it isn't an argument.

 

 

You didn't take your comment far enough.

 

There is no rational concept in Science that denotes Proof.

 

Science is a process of reducing uncertainty; it can approach Certainty but never reach it. B)

[borgius]

Your Modesty!

 

I was polite in my previous reply to your arrogance.

Now I see I should have simply stated: In other cultures [and possibly in other parts

of the Universe] caps don’t necessarily express “shouting”. It may be used out of

desperation, to show emphasis, or for various other reasons.

 

In closing, all I have to add is this:

 

Limited minds like yours are the cause of dictatorships, other evils, and all the

resulting human suffering.

[C. michael Turner]

Everythng can be explained in three dimensions so string theory and any theory requiring more than three dimensions is not relevant to any explanation. Everyone has missed how three dimensions work. I am jumping to the conclusion here based up. Observation and experiment. Space is finite because space is matter and energy decaying into a gravitational wave from all three forces, strong, weak and electromagnetic fields. As matter decreases space increases, as a puddle of water decreases humidity increases. Matter and energy naturally decay via the gravitational wave given off creating, adding to space itself. The universe is finite because matter and energy are finite. The universe is operating on a potential to kenetic energy pathway of emitted wave synchronization, space is the lowest form of matter. The big bang created space as a critical mass to monopole wave release of the gravitational wave but each quanta of matter and energy still release slowly and density of reference the reference frame dependent gravitational wave. It is wavefront formation that creates a backaction tension which leads to gravity

[Aleph-Null]

Is the Universe infinite? Yes.

Do Big Bangs happen? Yes, absolutely.

Did the Big Bang create the Universe? No.

 

Big Bang Creationism is the modern invention of the Church and requires you swallow a whole lot of bull to believe it.

[borgius]

Is the Universe infinite? Yes.

Do Big Bangs happen? Yes, absolutely.

Did the Big Bang create the Universe? No.

 

Big Bang Creationism is the modern invention of the Church and requires you swallow a whole lot of bull to believe it.

 

.............

 

Well said.

 

The problem is that many try to squeeze the Universe into their mind... instead of trying to let their mind expand into the Universe.

[C. michael Turner]

If the universe is infinite, what is it made of? By marhmatical defination nothing does not exist so it must be made of something, what? Perpetual what? it is a contradiction, do you not see the contradiction?

[HydrogenBond]

Say we had a vacuum of 10 hydrogen atoms per meter. Since the hydrogen can not be in all places at the same time, there needs to be instants of void in the m3. Although the cubic meter is not void, the cubic meter should be fractionally void. This fractional void may change position/distribution per instant, with the matter filling in the void, leaving another void. Or does the matter change phase so it can be in all places in the vacuum at the same time all the time?

[borgius]

Say we had a vacuum of 10 hydrogen atoms per meter. Since the hydrogen can not be in all places at the same time, there needs to be instants of void in the m3. Although the cubic meter is not void, the cubic meter should be fractionally void. This fractional void may change position/distribution per instant, with the matter filling in the void, leaving another void. Or does the matter change phase so it can be in all places in the vacuum at the same time all the time?

 

.........................

 

Wow !!!

[carlton-temple]

Just thinking. The material world seems to be contained in enclosures called galaxies, which as it were float about in a 'médium' called, for want of a better named 'space. Would it not be reasonable to consider that the material world(s) are epiphenomena of certain processes occuring in the 'texture' of space?

[C. michael Turner]

According to Quantum Mechanics (QM), a Void is Never Exactly Empty. - maddog

 

.

 

I am not talking about what is or isn't in the void. i AM TALKING ABOUT THE VOID ITSELF. Let's suppose for a moment that there is absolutely nothing there, not even the very few Hydrogen atoms (per cubic-meter), no photons, no radiation, nothing at all. The void (space) is still there. So, WHAT IS THE VOID (THE ABSOLUTELY EMPTY SPACE) MADE OF?

Here is an answer to "What is the void made of?" The void is the smallest part of matter, energy, involving an unbinding of matter to space, the void itself, the gravitational wave. Although the bug bang created space, each left over piece of matter and energy still decay creating their own time and space and adding to the overall fabric of space itself.

[C. michael Turner]

Just thinking. The material world seems to be contained in enclosures called galaxies, which as it were float about in a 'médium' called, for want of a better named 'space. Would it not be reasonable to consider that the material world(s) are epiphenomena of certain processes occuring in the 'texture' of space?

Imagine, if you can break the bounds of today's dimensional entrapment, that matter and energy actually generate their own rules by generating the space around them as a decay process that is accelerated or hindered by other matter and energy generating it's own space. Time is simply the action of this change and this change is a wave function.

Space is not only something, it is matter itself in it's smallest form, the gravitation wave and it writes the rules locally

[borgius]

Here is an answer to "What is the void made of?" The void is the smallest part of matter, energy, involving an unbinding of matter to space, the void itself, the gravitational wave. Although the bug bang created space, each left over piece of matter and energy still decay creating their own time and space and adding to the overall fabric of space itself.

 

...............

 

Are you suggesting that there was no space before the "bug bang"? [You must have meant "big bang".]

Are you suggesting that there was not even a void?

 

So, what was in place of the Universe?

[borgius]

"Instead of trying to squeeze the Universe into your mind, expand your mind into the Universe."

 

Zoltan Bartok