matrixscarface Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Something has been on my mind. do you think that if we had enough energy, im saying more energy than there is present on earth, maybe more than the strict actual definition of energy and then walk right through a wall of say brink or steel or something, what i am saying is can we part the atoms? see atoms are not actual matter, they have protons and electrons spinning around the nucleus.. means some space. can we just push all thast by and go through and would form back behind you?!?!? what are your thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Let's say we could.....how what would happen afterwards? Matter just falls to the ground and clings together mangled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixscarface Posted February 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 i dought it, id say you would have so much force and id say going fast to acheive such a powerful force, that you would just pass through kinda like water you would go through but would form back around you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind5 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 It would seem that the extream NRG would effect the "wall" that your walking through and maybe change it because of the spaces being altered. It would be more like u melting a whole in a wall as you go through. (plus NRG is usually given off as heat...) Op5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 And, if you're going that fast, you're probably already obliterated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind5 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 No kidding! you would be soooo unstable!Op5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 yes this would be possible (in theory).it has to do with quantum uncertainty. Since we never can know the position of a particle exactly, the position becomes smeared out over space, only to fix itself on a certain point if we measure the particle. With this property, particles can 'tunnel' through classicly impossable barriers (this effect has been measured in great detail). So if this can happen, then why don't we fall through the chair we're sitting on? the answer is that the probability (quantum mechanics only tells us something about probabilities) tunneling to happen is extremely small. (all the approx. 10^36 atoms of your body have to travel through all the 10^36 atoms of the chair....). So in everyday live we don't see this effect. Increasing the speed (and thus energy) of a particle does increase the tunneling probability, but, since we have a speed limit, never to a point where tunneling anything but a single particle woulhave a likely probability Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aki Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I'd say the easiest way would be to "leap out" to the 4th dimension (well if we can). Then we can easily enter or exit a 3d room without having to walk through doors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I'd say the easiest way would be to "leap out" to the 4th dimension (well if we can). Then we can easily enter or exit a 3d room without having to walk through doorsMaybe you could use a fourth spacial dimension to bend or fold 3d space, and create a wormhole between the two points. A kind of teleporting thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I'd say the easiest way would be to "leap out" to the 4th dimension (well if we can). Then we can easily enter or exit a 3d room without having to walk through doorsThat amounts to going around the wall, not :eek: through it. The tunnel effect mentioned by Bo is perfectly correct for what is called a potential barrier. This means that it could happen classically, without other alterations, but would need a greater energy. Solid material going through solid material is a quite different thing, :) you couldn't go through by tunnel effect, without splattering. Small particles, even light nuclei, can easily go through a slab of solid material without drastic collisions happening. A helium nucleus will only penetrate very thin sheets though, while a proton, muon or an electron can go through quite a bit of matter before a hard collision. It is happening all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 his means that it could happen classically, what do you mean by classically? tunneling is a pure quantum mechanical phenomenom. Solid material going through solid material is a quite different thing, you couldn't go through by tunnel effect, without splattering. Note that tunneling isn't about matter passing through matter, it is about wave functions passing through each other (the wave function is a probability distribution to find a particle at a certain point). This can very well happen without a splash Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Atoms are pretty much empty space. The only reason they do not slide in amongst themselves are the magnetic forces repelling them. You are not really sitting on the chair. The repulsive forces of the atioms only like to get "so close" before their repellant forces equal those of gravity. So I suppose if one could remove the charge from the atoms in the wall one could just slide through, just as two light beams can pass through each other. Or probably more accurately as a light beam passes through a transparent medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Inall such process the electromagnetic force is the only relevant force... if you can disable it; everything will fall apart... Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I guess I wasn't clear enough, I thought you would understand me, not think I needed explanation. what do you mean by classically? tunneling is a pure quantum mechanical phenomenom.To say what the tunnel, or Esaki, effect is, without pitfalls, a comparison between classical and quantum mechanics can hardly be avoided. If you were really truly to think "pure QM" it would hardly be an effect at all, just simply the way things are and nothing surprising. Note that tunneling isn't about matter passing through matter, it is about wave functions passing through each other (the wave function is a probability distribution to find a particle at a certain point). This can very well happen without a splash :eek: Actually, although I don't agree in the details, this is somewhat similar to the difference I was pointing out. It was your statement (02-27-2005 05:45 PM) I was criticizing, about falling through the chair by tunnel effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenosis Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I cannot even begin to touch the technical aspects of this, but I would just like to say this... Just assuming for a moment that someone did create such a device it would be extremely unpractical, there would be nothing stopping you from falling through to the center of the earth, correct? the only way you could do this would be to also remove gravity's effect on the object. at which point you now have to solve two very large problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Just assuming for a moment that someone did create such a device it would be extremely unpractical...Let's consider a very, very practical "device": Lay a rock on the surface of a lake, sea or ocean. Of course, this device won't work all the way down to the centre of Earth... only down to the bottom of the water. Gravity's effect is only partly removed by Archimedes' force for the rock, but for a few other objects is is removed totally. In order to reach the centre, you would have to liquefy the crust of Earth but not the rock. Somewhat deeper down, Earth is already liquefied... :naughty: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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