Compare The Story of Cration to the Call of Justice

[asimon2008]

Describe how the story of creation is relevant to understanding our call to do justice.

 

I need help on this.

 

As a Catholic, My fair guess to me in my opinion is that God sacrifice his own power into sharing it with our ancestor's Adam and Eve. Since humans I believe are an extension of God(descendents of God) we are probably bought into this world to share experience on how to love everyone as we should.

 

I just need to know if this is right for my religion teacher. She wants us to describe this.

[Thunderbird]

This is not a science question, so it the thread should be moved to the theology section.

[modest]

====== Moved to Theology ======

 

Please don't post theology related stuff outside theology - the rules for theology are here

 

Describe how the story of creation is relevant to understanding our call to do justice.

 

I need help on this.

 

I don’t believe there’s any way for us to know what your teacher is thinking or has taught on this. But, here are some thoughts:

 

Justice is one of the four cardinal virtues. Augustine described it : ”justice is love serving only the loved object, and therefore ruling rightly” The modern Catholic definition (which your teacher is most likely stressing) is more like:

 

Justice is the moral virtue that consists in the constant and firm will to give their due to God and neighbor. Justice toward God is called the 'virtue of religion.' Justice toward men disposes one to respect the rights of each and to establish in human relationships the harmony that promotes equity with regard to persons and to the common good.

 

-catholicdoors

 

So, you should probably stress these two points of the “call to do justice”

• Justice toward God (giving god his due)
  
• Justice toward mankind (giving your neighbor his due)
  

In the creation myth, God made us in his image [Gen1.26]. That’s a call of justice toward God and probably exactly what your teacher is looking for. A call to do justice toward fellow humankind is that we are all descendants of Adam - all brothers and sisters. You could add that God created only one earth in the story making us all neighbors and on that note - we’re all made from the earth [Gen 2.7] and from the same verse - we all share the breath or spirit of God... which would work as “justice toward God” as well.

 

I suppose it’s probably out of the scope to get into the fall.

 

 

As a Catholic, My fair guess to me in my opinion is that God sacrifice his own power into sharing it with our ancestor's Adam and Eve. Since humans I believe are an extension of God(descendents of God) we are probably bought into this world to share experience on how to love everyone as we should.

 

I just need to know if this is right for my religion teacher. She wants us to describe this.

 

Oh, crap... is your class/teacher Catholic or is it a general study of religion kind of thing? On my first read through I misunderstood where you said you are a Catholic as it is a Catholic class. :unsure:

 

Well.. I'll leave my thoughts above and you can tell me if I misunderstood.

 

~modest

[HydrogenBond]

There are two trees in the garden of Eden, the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life. The tree of knowledge is subjective justice since the definitions of good and evil change with time. Depending on who is in power, they can redefine what is good and what is evil. They may decide it is good to tax at 90%, since this strengthens their position of power. Justice would be metered out to anyone not willing to pay that. What is just, under this law of good and evil, may not be just when the next person changes the rules.

 

The tree of life is not something that humans can invent to suit the needs of those in power. This system of laws is more like natural instinct that applies to everyone and is not set by subjective human standards of good and evil. For example, we all get hungry and need to eat food. To violate that natural law will lead to health problems with the same basic justice happening to everyone. But it is a flexible law able to accommodate a wide range of sizes and genetics.

 

Knowledge of good and evil tries to tweak this natural justice. It might say weighing 50 kg is good for females. This is not based on health but on sex appeal. This violate the tree of life for many women. But if they don't follow this subjective tree of knowledge, then social justice can be metered out through the social police. God said, if you buy into this subjective system of knowledge of good and evil death will come into the world. It is too subjective to work well enough for everyone. Life is not one size fits all, so you need a more powerful system that can take into consideration special requirements. But this currently out of reach due to law of good and evil.

[DanGray]

Describe how the story of creation is relevant to understanding our call to do justice.

 

I need help on this.

 

As a Catholic, My fair guess to me in my opinion is that God sacrifice his own power into sharing it with our ancestor's Adam and Eve. Since humans I believe are an extension of God(descendents of God) we are probably bought into this world to share experience on how to love everyone as we should.

 

I just need to know if this is right for my religion teacher. She wants us to describe this.

 

The good book exsplains this better than we can (;>)) ..

[Buffy]

The good book exsplains this better than we can (;>)) ..

 

No it doesn't!

 

See how evidence--even if it is Theological in nature--might help arguments be more meaningful?

 

Leave each one his touch of folly; it helps to lighten life's burden which, if he could see himself as he is, might be too heavy to carry, :)

Buffy

[DanGray]

No it doesn't!

 

Buffy

 

I respectfully disagree

sure it does, until man can twist it all out of shape once his starts rewriting it for his own proposes.. we see it in other bibles all the time.. not the KJ's version..

 

it's where it all started from in the first place. if not for the Bible there would be one less argument right?

 

I'd like to see proof of the big bang that would disprove the Bibles sayings

ca I see that from here?

[freeztar]

I respectfully disagree

 

I think you missed Buffy's point entirely.

 

sure it does, until man can twist it all out of shape once his starts rewriting it for his own proposes.. we see it in other bibles all the time.. not the KJ's version..

 

Not the KJ version? This seems to run counter to your argument.

 

I'd like to see proof of the big bang that would disprove the Bibles sayings

ca I see that from here?

 

There is no proof of the big bang, just as there is no proof of the Biblical creation story. Also, some people do not see them as mutually exclusive.

[Buffy]

I respectfully disagree

sure it does, until man can twist it all out of shape once his starts rewriting it for his own proposes.. we see it in other bibles all the time.. not the KJ's version..

With all due respect, of course it doesn't. Its obvious that it doesn't, and as we *all* know, the King James version is by far the most perverted "reimagining" of the scriptures created to justify Henry VIII's shenanigans.

 

The only legitimate bibles are the original Hebrew and Latin.

it's where it all started from in the first place. if not for the Bible there would be one less argument right?

Well, maybe one less, but we'd still have lots of them. I think the Hindu Śruti and Smriti, would keep us well occupied.

I'd like to see proof of the big bang that would disprove the Bibles sayings ca I see that from here?

Well of course Monsignor Lemaître actually pushed the Big Bang as validation of the creation story, and whether or not it "proves" the Biblical story of creation or not is a personal interpretation. Those who believe that Genesis is allegorical see no conflict with the Big Bang, whereas Young Earth Creationists and related groups who insist on inerrancy will have their interpretations basically demolished...that is if they stop covering their ears and yelling "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

 

I have often depended on the blindness of strangers, :phones:

Buffy

[Pyrotex]

The good book exsplains this better than we can (;>)) ..

Dan, the creation story of Genesis (whatever bible version you use) is a "story" -- not an explanation. A story contains characters who interact with each other, thereby creating events and situations, which the reader MUST INTERPRET to yield a moral or ethical lesson. Some stories may actually "spell out" the teaching at the end, but it's still an interpretation -- the author's.

 

An "explanation" may explain a fact, a theory, an event, a relationship, in terms of under-lying (and presumably simpler) facts and relationships. An explanation may even explain a story -- why the particular characters were chosen, why they interacted that particular way, why the author had the events come to a particular conclusion.

 

The creation story is a "story", without any attempt by the author to "explain" it or any part of it. For two + thousand years, readers have created their own interpretations. Many (or all?) of these interpretations reflect a personal agenda or cultural bias. None of them are inherently any better than any others.

[juggernot]

In christianity, God is good. By that I mean that if it is in God's nature to do something, that is a good/ethical/pleasing thing to do. The commands in the bible are an attempt to align ourselves more with Gods nature, and therefore become good. If anything is against God's nature, that is evil.

 

The problem I have with this is that it makes good and evil subjective. If there was an all powerful being who by our current evalutions we would consider evil, then good and evil would flip positions. Suddenly charity would be a sin and murder would be holy? Some people don't have as much of a problem with this(religously) as I do. To me it doesn't mean anything to say God is good. Based on the previous argument all that means is God is according to his nature, or God is God. If you don't have a problem with this, then justice would simply be a set of rules and consequences to Gods commandments.

 

As far as how the creation story and justice relate:

I believe that for God, ignorance of the law is an excuse. God would not condemn a child for violence, because he has not yet developed the knowledge of good and evil. So if Adam and Eve didn't eat from the tree, we might have still sinned but not have been held accountable. God would view us as infants. However, by giving us even one rule he gave us partial knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve were aware that eating the fruit was contrary to God's will, and so was 'wrong'. They wouldn't have made the connection that it was 'wrong', they would merely want to please a parent figure by being obediant. It was only after they had eaten the fruit that they realized it was wrong, and felt guilty. Therefore I believe that if it weren't for the way the creation story unfolded, we would be unaware of 'good' and 'evil' and be more child-like in our ethics. We would only be held responsible for things that God told us specifically to do or not do.

 

I am not strictly a christian. I have problems and unanswered questions about christianity. I however believe there must be a creator. I also am attracted to the ethics of the new testament. I answered the previous question with my christian hat on, but I also have a much more secular definition of justice.