Pothead discovers worlds largest impact crater

[Jack Hughett]

Modest,

Thanks for the reply, but I have been aware of the geologic explanation for Sequatchie valley from the conception of this theory many years ago. I tend to question this explanation. It seems that if it were formed from erosion only, the lower end of the valley would be considerably wider than the upper end because this is where the erosion first took place. It is not! The valley maintains a fairly consistent 4 mile width from rim to rim for it's entire 60 mile length. As far as Ronnie and I coming to similar conclusions from the image shown that this was a meteor impact. A portion of the image was left out of the picture. The image really needed to be panned back a few miles to get the whole jest of the impact. I'll try to upload an image that shows the 250 mile impact ring that is centered at Guntersville lake.

 

I tried to post an image of this but with me being new to the forum I am currently not allowed. The best I can do is give you the coordinates to view it on Google earth.

 

Go to 34°20'N and 86°20'W and pan in to 560 miles in the Eye Altitude. Again rotate the

compass to where the N arrow is facing North-northwest. Then tilt the view to where the Eye Altitude reads 435 miles. This is what we both saw.

 

I understand your disbelief in this theory and I know there is not much chance in winning a fight against known and respected geologists and scientists. But I know what I know and see what I see and until they are able to convince me otherwise I staying pretty firm on my belief that this is indeed the site of an impact.

 

You said:

"It is inconceivable that this investigation could have missed the signs of a meteor impact and completely misunderstood the formation mechanism of this valley."

 

You have to take into account that the study of meteor impacts is really in it's infancy. When Seqautchie Valley was studied by, I'm sorry but the name of the geologist escapes me now, but when he studied the valley by walking it from end to end not many scientists and geologist even believed that the earth was even hit by large stones from space.

 

Try to envision this scenario to help put this into perspective. Imagine an Iron meteorite, three miles in diameter, traveling at upwards of 100, 000 mph entering our atmosphere at an angle that almost causes it to bounce off but not quite. When this meteor strikes the earth it doesn't suddenly come to a stop as many think all meteorites do. But this one being made of iron has the momentum and density to bust any object in it's path. Rock would seem to have no more constancy than sand in it's path. Traveling at such speed, many seconds would pass or possibly minutes before it would come to a complete stop. During that time, it would have covered many miles. As it slowed the earth beneath it could no longer support the weight and so the meteor would begin to penetrate below the surface. This is what I think happened, crazy as it may seem to you, it doesn't seem out of the rim of possibilities to me.

 

Thank's again for the reply.

[modest]

I tried to post an image of this but with me being new to the forum I am currently not allowed. The best I can do is give you the coordinates to view it on Google earth.

 

Go to 34°20'N and 86°20'W and pan in to 560 miles in the Eye Altitude. Again rotate the

compass to where the N arrow is facing North-northwest. Then tilt the view to where the Eye Altitude reads 435 miles. This is what we both saw.

 

Thank you for the reply Jack. The restrictions on posting links, images, and attachments are necessary to prevent spam. I have followed your google earth instructions and capped this image:

 

 

I've also attached a GE placemark with the new view. I assume you're talking about the semicircle of deforested area that I've marked with a red overlay:

 

 

To give people an idea of scale, the red circle there measures 450 kilometers in diameter. I just measured the rim of the yucatan crater in GE at 160 kilometers.

 

~modest

[Jack Hughett]

Thanks for again posting pics, Modest.

 

I assume you're talking about the semicircle of deforested area that I've marked with a red overlay:

 

The deforested semicircle is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, of the geologic process that happened below the surface. But all of it follows the same semi circular pattern. The northeastern portion of the impact ring would have been obliterated by the meteorites northeastern path. That's the reason the crater is not a full circle.

 

The southern portion of the ring that remains is the reason the Tennessee river turns west at Guntersville Lake then is forced to take a northern path to escape it's boundary.

 

Jack

[Turtle]

From what I have read of high energy impact physics, no 'strike & scoop' impact is possible. This isn't marbles or billiards. :naughty: :shrug:

[Jack Hughett]

Hey Turtle, (I like all these unusual nicknames on this forum)

 

From what I have read of high energy impact physics, no 'strike & scoop' impact is possible.

 

It would depend on what scientist you asked and also the makeup of the meteorite. A stony meteorite probably wouldn't survive the impact, but I am talking about an Iron Meteorite. Some scientist believe the large canyon found on mars was actually caused from a meteorite brushing against the surface then bouncing back into space. This would be considered the strike and scoop. Theories and 'what's accepted by the scientific community' change every day. What is accepted as hard nose facts one day will change the next day. This has happened countless times through-out our history.

[Turtle]

Hey Turtle, (I like all these unusual nicknames on this forum)

 

From what I have read of high energy impact physics, no 'strike & scoop' impact is possible.

 

It would depend on what scientist you asked and also the makeup of the meteorite. A stony meteorite probably wouldn't survive the impact, but I am talking about an Iron Meteorite. Some scientist believe the large canyon found on mars was actually caused from a meteorite brushing against the surface then bouncing back into space. This would be considered the strike and scoop. Theories and 'what's accepted by the scientific community' change every day. What is accepted as hard nose facts one day will change the next day. This has happened countless times through-out our history.

 

I think the study of high energy impact physics is changing, and it doesn't look like billiards. Here again are some other threads on the topic, and they include links & references to scientists that I have asked about impacts. :naughty:

>> http://hypography.com/forums/environmental-studies/11540-space-rock-impact-site-s.html

 

http://hypography.com/forums/astronomy-cosmology/9072-craters-earth-other-planets.html

[CraigD]

I'm a newby in the forum and I too have been looking at this very same impact area, I agree with you that it is an impact site. I have thought so for many years now, and was glad to finally find someone else who also felt that it was. I have written several geologist about this possibility but have had little success convincing them.

From what I’ve read, you can reliable prove, or disprove, that a place is a meteorite impact site only by physically examining it. Aerial and satellite images are useful in locating possible sites, but to reach a credible conclusion, you’ve got to get down and dirty with the site, or find the data of people such as research geologists, miners, or, as modest notes in post #68, DOE nuclear power engineers, who already have. There are a lot of ways to detect craters, which I highlighted a few months ago in “Roadtrip time!”.

 

Given that there are a lot of suggestive-looking features available on Google Earth, and thousands of people with access to it, I expect you’ll not have much success convincing professional geologists or serious hobbyists unless you can provide good-quality firsthand site data, or a very good analysis of existing data. Until Google Earth gets an high resolution gravimetric layer (we can dream, can’t we :naughty:), geology looks to me like it’ll remains the domain of rock hound types who spend a lot of time scraping around in creek beds, college professors with armies of grad students to order around, and, of course, ordered-around grad students.

[Jack Hughett]

Hey CraigD,

 

but to reach a credible conclusion, you’ve got to get down and dirty with the site, or find the data of people such as research geologists, miners, or, as modest notes in post #68, DOE nuclear power engineers, who already have. There are a lot of ways to detect craters, which I highlighted a few months ago in “Roadtrip time!”.

 

Road Trip!!! I was thinking this very thing today. Sequatchie Valley is not far from where I live, but it would take several weeks of research to gather even preliminary evidence, and that is if I were qualified and knew what to look for. It would be easier if it were confined to one small area, but this is spread out over hundreds of miles. I'm not sure if it's worth my time, effort and money.

 

Thanks,

Jack

[Jack Hughett]

CraigD,

 

I followed your road trip link.

 

[*]Unusual rocks. Iron spherules and other mineral formations caused by meteorite impacts are the best and most convincing evidence of a meteorite impact.

 

One example of unusual rock found on the escarpment where Sequatchie Valley is located that could possible be used as evidence of an impact site, has also been found at other meteor impacts, it's called boxwork. It is fragmented sandstone with iron oxide filling the gaps. This was found at the West Clearwater, Quebec Impact Structure, buried within a meter of contact.

[REASON]

One example of unusual rock found on the escarpment where Sequatchie Valley is located that could possible be used as evidence of an impact site, has also been found at other meteor impacts, it's called boxwork. It is fragmented sandstone with iron oxide filling the gaps. This was found at the West Clearwater, Quebec Impact Structure, buried within a meter of contact.

 

Are you hypothesizing that a two mile diameter iron meteorite glanced off of the Earth, and most of it returned back into space, or that it embedded itself?

 

If it embedded itself, there should be a large quantity of iron detectable at the Northeast end of the valley that would serve as good evidence of your theory.

 

If you are saying it glanced off and most of it returned to space, you may find it difficult to support that claim with evidence or test results from impact simulations, but there should still be a significant amount of iron deposited throughout the valley even with no large quantity concentrated at the Northeast end.

 

While I have not yet reasearched it, I would expect to find some pretty good existing data relating to geologic surveys of mineral deposits throughout the region.

 

I would think the USGS would be a good place to start.

[Jack Hughett]

Are you hypothesizing that a two mile diameter iron meteorite glanced off of the Earth, and most of it returned back into space, or that it embedded itself?

 

If it embedded itself, there should be a large quantity of iron detectable at the Northeast end of the valley that would serve as good evidence of your theory.

 

If you are saying it glanced off and most of it returned to space, you may find it difficult to support that claim with evidence or test results from impact simulations, but there should still be a significant amount of iron deposited throughout the valley even with no large quantity concentrated at the Northeast end.

 

While I have not yet reasearched it, I would expect to find some pretty good existing data relating to geologic surveys of mineral deposits throughout the region.

 

I would think the USGS would be a good place to start.

 

Hello Reason,

 

I guess my hypothesis is that, a three mile wide iron meteorite entered our atmosphere over the Gulf of Mexico at a very flat angle, first striking the earth in central Alabama in the location of Guntersville Lake. From there it skimmed across the surface until reaching the area just west of Chattanooga, TN where it then began it's eventual penetration of the earth's surface causing the rise of the Cumberland escarpment and cutting a 4 mile swath through it's center for an estimated 60 miles. At that point, it began going totally subterranean in the area now known as Grassy Cove. From Grassy Cove, it continued on, penetrating even deeper beneath the surface until coming to a complete stop 40 miles further northeast under an area known as Hembree, TN.

 

With the surface of this meteor being very hot it literally sat and baked the area around it. This tremendous amount of heat caused the expansion of the land mass around it forming a circular range of mountains on the top of the escarpment. Within this circle of mountains, coal is found. Just outside the circle, oil is found.

 

All along the path of this meteorite until it penetrates below the surface, iron is abundant.

 

Birmingham steel mills and Harriman steel mills in Harriman TN were located where they were because of the abundance of iron found within the meteorites path.

 

Crab Orchard stone if I'm not mistaken, is found only in Crab Orchard TN. This is the area where the meteorite went below ground. Crab Orchard stone is busted up sandstone embedded with iron ore. This iron ore I feel came from the Meteorite.

 

Note:

Sequatchie Valley has a central peak the length of the basin until it gets to the upper end of the valley. I believe this was formed by the same process that forms the central peaks of meteorites striking perpendicular to the earth. As a meteorite passes through the surface, the land mass around it rebounds back, slamming together at the very center. The same process happens when throwing a rock into mud or water. But it also happens with the wake behind a boat. It's just that the point of penetration is parallel to the surface instead of perpendicular. When water is displaced by the passing boat, the water that was displaced, slams back together just behind the boat causing the water to rise up in the center. This would be the process that caused the central peak in the valley.

 

Thanks,

Jack

[Turtle]

Hello Reason,

 

I guess my hypothesis is that, a three mile wide iron meteorite entered our atmosphere over the Gulf of Mexico at a very flat angle, first striking the earth in central Alabama in the location of Guntersville Lake. ... Jack

 

I think this type of trajectory is impossible because of balistics. Maybe we can impose on some of our members who have software to plot orbital trajectories? Moreover, at the velocities a falling space rock must have, nothing is going to skip once it hits because it can't hang together under such forces. :shrug:

 

Meantime, let the speculation continue.

[Jack Hughett]

I think this type of trajectory is impossible because of balistics. Maybe we can impose on some of our members who have software to plot orbital trajectories? Moreover, at the velocities a falling space rock must have, nothing is going to skip once it hits because it can't hang together under such forces. :shrug:

 

Meantime, let the speculation continue.

 

 

Hey Turtle,

This may be theoretically impossible but until I see hard evidence proving that it is, I will remained convinced that this is an impact. One thing I want to clarify, I don't believe that the meteorite skipped. This would require a major change in it's trajectory. I don't feel the ground itself could have had that much affect on it's path other than to slow it down. The earth's gravity and rotation would be the major deciding factor of the path it would follow.

 

It would be nice to be able to do a simulated model of this event but I don't have the software, or currently the capability of doing one. Supposedly there is a company in Chattanooga who specializes in this but that would require moo la, and money and me don't seem to be on speaking terms.

 

Jack

[modest]

I think this type of trajectory is impossible because of balistics. Maybe we can impose on some of our members who have software to plot orbital trajectories? Moreover, at the velocities a falling space rock must have, nothing is going to skip once it hits because it can't hang together under such forces.

 

This web page: Earth Impact Effects Program calculates the expected effects of a meteorite given inputs such as angle of attack, size, and composition. While the page looks very deceptively basic, it in fact represents an extraordinary amount of physics and research which is detailed in the paper by Collins, Melosh, and Marcus explaining the Program and effort that went into it:

 

http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~marcus/CollinsEtAl2005.pdf

This is a very cool program that I'd recommend anyone with even a passing interest in meteors play with.

 

The wikipedia page:

 

The Great Daylight 1972 Fireball - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

uses results of this web-based program to show how the outcome of the meteorite are highly dependent on the impact angel.

 

~modest

[Turtle]

This web page: Earth Impact Effects Program calculates the expected effects of a meteorite given inputs such as angle of attack, size, and composition. While the page looks very deceptively basic, it in fact represents an extraordinary amount of physics and research which is detailed in the paper by Collins, Melosh, and Marcus explaining the Program and effort that went into it:

 

http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~marcus/CollinsEtAl2005.pdf

This is a very cool program that I'd recommend anyone with even a passing interest in meteors play with.

 

The wikipedia page:

 

The Great Daylight 1972 Fireball - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

uses results of this web-based program to show how the outcome of the meteorite are highly dependent on the impact angel.

 

~modest

 

Good stuff Modestor! :) I have a bone to pick with the article on earth-grazers though. :eek: (Big surprise eh? :shrug:) They say:

...Earth-grazing fireballs are a very rare kind of fireball[7] caused by a meteoroid that collides with the Earth but survives the collision by passing through, and exiting, the atmosphere. ...

The Great Daylight 1972 Fireball - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Looking at the chart that follows we see that none of these struck the ground, so saying 'collides with the Earth' is in my view a misnomer.

 

Off to read & play at the other link.

[Turtle]

Natural objects that encounter the Earth are either asteroids or comets. Asteroids are made of rock ( ρ

i ~2000–3000 kg m3; Hilton 2002) or iron ( ρi ~8000 kg m3) and typically collide with the Earth’s atmosphere at velocities of 12–20 km s−1 (Bottke et al. 1994). Detailed knowledge of the composition of comets is currently lacking; however, they are of much lower density ( ρi ~500–1500 kg m3) and are composed mainly of ice (Chapman and Brandt 2004). Typical velocities at which comets might encounter the Earth’s atmosphere are in the range of 30–70 km s−1 (Marsden and Steel 1994). Thus, an asteroid or comet typically has 4–20 times the energy per unit mass of TNT at the moment atmospheric entry begins. Therefore, impact events have much in common with chemical and nuclear explosions, a fact that we will rely on later in our estimates of the environmental effects of an impact. ...

http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~marcus/CollinsEtAl2005.pdf

 

Definitely not like marbles or billiards. (bolding mine.) No skipping the physics. :shrug:

[modest]

It would be nice to be able to do a simulated model of this event but I don't have the software, or currently the capability of doing one. Supposedly there is a company in Chattanooga who specializes in this but that would require moo la, and money and me don't seem to be on speaking terms.

 

The dynamics of meteoroids when interacting with the atmosphere and ground are extraordinarily complex. The program I linked above is the best a person can do without having an expert in the field do a complete simulation. However, you're looking at this a bit backwards I think.

 

First off, you don't have anything to simulate. I mean, you are not at a point in an investigation where you have data (or even an educated guess) with which to do a complex simulation. If you were to confirm an impact in the area (such as by finding shocked quartz) and identify its composition directly (such as by finding spherules). You could add that to whatever you learn about the deformation of the geology in the area. You'd then be closer.

 

Secondly, as confirmation of an impact, simulating a possible scenario is more difficult and less conclusive than going there and finding direct evidence. No matter what the simulation shows - you have not confirmed a meteorite. However, something simple like shocked quartz would. So, as CraigD indicates in his post a road trip is needed.

 

~modest