The diesel tree!

[Moontanman]

Can this be the answer to the oil crisis?

 

The Diesel Tree: Grow Your Own Oil : TreeHugger

 

At least if you live in a tropical area?

[nutronjon]

That sounds very hopeful. As someone commented trees also remover CO2 from the air and that is a plus. I wonder where these trees can grow? I know it said the tropics, but I don't know how much land is triopical. Would this work in the rain forest in South America, giving the aborigine people the environment they want and an income essential to protecting their land?

 

More and more of this type of information is coming up. I think this type of information could lead to a consciousness shift that might save humanity. It means living in harmony with nature, rather than treating it like the enemy that must be subdued or destroyed.

[UncleAl]

Corn is good for 18 gal/acre biodiesel (bigger is better) with iodine number 125 (bigger is worse).

Opium poppy is good for 124 gal/acre biodiesel (bigger is better) with iodine number 117 (bigger is worse).

Oil palm is good for 635 gal/acre biodiesel (bigger is better) with iodine number 54 (bigger is worse).

 

You don't want Louisiana in charge of the world, do you? Agri-giant maize pimp Archer-Daniels-Midland says, "grow corn."

[Moontanman]

Corn is good for 18 gal/acre biodiesel (bigger is better) with iodine number 125 (bigger is worse).

Opium poppy is good for 124 gal/acre biodiesel (bigger is better) with iodine number 117 (bigger is worse).

Oil palm is good for 635 gal/acre biodiesel (bigger is better) with iodine number 54 (bigger is worse).

 

You don't want Louisiana in charge of the world, do you? Agri-giant maize pimp Archer-Daniels-Midland says, "grow corn."

 

You've lost me, how does the iodine figure into it? The diesel tree's biggest advantage is the stuff is used directly out of the tree with out any processing. Do you have links for the numbers given?

[Turtle]

You've lost me [unca Al], how does the iodine figure into it? ...

 

I'm no Uncle Al, but I play one online. :cap: But really, I'm just a Google junkie and Al's just an organic chemist.

 

>> Iodine value - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[freeztar]

Thanks Turtle.

So why is the adsorption of iodine bad? Is there a certain "critical mass" point to look for?

 

The wiki states:

The higher the iodine number, the more unsaturated fatty acid bonds are present in a fat.

 

My chemistry knowledge is pretty weak, so perhaps someone can elaborate on this as it relates to the OP?

[Turtle]

Thanks Turtle.

So why is the adsorption of iodine bad? Is there a certain "critical mass" point to look for?

 

The wiki states:

The higher the iodine number, the more unsaturated fatty acid bonds are present in a fat.

 

My chemistry knowledge is pretty weak, so perhaps someone can elaborate on this as it relates to the OP?

 

Here's my edumacated guess given what we have. :smart: Al gave us 2 criteria for bio fuel by crop type; the number of gallons per acre, and the iodine number. Furthermore, he rated each criteria by crop, and obviously the more gallons per acre makes sense as 'bigger is better'. So now given that a smaller iodine number is better according to Al's rating, and that a smaller iodine number means fewer unsaturated fatty acid bonds according to Wiki, and since we are burning the oil/fat as fuel, then I conclude that the fewer of these bonds, the more complete, and so efficient, the combustion. :beer: :cup: :beer:

[UncleAl]

The larger the iodine number the more unsaturation is in the stuff. What happens to linseed oil (e.g., oil paint) when exposed to air? The higher the iodine number the worse the stuff stores - gel, rancidity - and the worse it mucks gas tanks and engines (add cylinder varnish plus clogged fuel filter and injectors).

 

Enviro-whinerism is crap. Enviro-whinerism extolls Walden Pond then goes home for a hot shower. EU defends biofuel goals amid food crises,

 

EU defends biofuel goals amid food crises - Yahoo! News

 

Our electric bill yesterday included a brief brochure on what to do this summer when all the Enviro-whiner bullbleep (geothermal, wind, solar, cleaned coal...) "clean and abundant energy" results in massive prolonged rolling blackouts during the hottest days (and the rest of them). We're going out to buy a smelly noisy polluting kilowatt generator fueled by rock juice. Firetruck Enviro-whinerism.

 

Human life is sacred, sacrifice it to your gods. Civilization doesn't need gods because it has engineers.

[Ahmabeliever]

Can this be the answer to the oil crisis?

 

The Diesel Tree: Grow Your Own Oil : TreeHugger

 

At least if you live in a tropical area?

 

The picture I'm getting is that we have more than enough answers but little to no action. I know many of us here are working on helping the planet/ourselves, I am not talking about individuals.

 

I believe corporate and Govt interests will not allow too much bio-fuels and alternatives to get in the market till the same people controlling oil can control diesel trees, and TP hydrogen, and anything else they deem a threat to their global monopoly.

 

We knew about this tree in the 1600's! ;)

 

When you look at what is already possible. Diesel Trees. Recycling oils as bio-fuel. Terra Preta with CO2 sequestration and synfuel. Aquaponics - clean aquaculture, clean hydroponics. Extraction plants that filter landfill wastes into valuable commodities. Black Soldier flies - consume 15kg waste (which can include manure and meat scrap) per m2 per day and convert it to 3 kilos high protein feed and 0.75 kilos friable soil amendment/worm bedding. Plus, plus plus!

 

So many answers are there already. It is our governments and corporations letting us down. imo... :hihi:

[Moontanman]

The picture I'm getting is that we have more than enough answers but little to no action. I know many of us here are working on helping the planet/ourselves, I am not talking about individuals.

 

I believe corporate and Govt interests will not allow too much bio-fuels and alternatives to get in the market till the same people controlling oil can control diesel trees, and TP hydrogen, and anything else they deem a threat to their global monopoly.

 

We knew about this tree in the 1600's! ;)

 

When you look at what is already possible. Diesel Trees. Recycling oils as bio-fuel. Terra Preta with CO2 sequestration and synfuel. Aquaponics - clean aquaculture, clean hydroponics. Extraction plants that filter landfill wastes into valuable commodities. Black Soldier flies - consume 15kg waste (which can include manure and meat scrap) per m2 per day and convert it to 3 kilos high protein feed and 0.75 kilos friable soil amendment/worm bedding. Plus, plus plus!

 

So many answers are there already. It is our governments and corporations letting us down. imo... :hihi:

 

 

It's sad but I think you have hit the nail exactly on the head. I remember back in the 70's (yes I'm old!) There was a furor over using natural gas to power cars. You could convert a truck over to natural gas quite easily and the result was an engine that polluted less, lasted longer (less wear on the engine), and if you lived where natural gas was available, you could fill up from your house using a small compressor system to fill up at night while you slept. I was all over it!

 

It was a really great idea, win/win for everyone except of course the state. Since they couldn't collect taxes on it like they do gasoline no money was put into research to allow reasonable fill ups at "gas" stations. All, or nearly all, the research was done privately, little or no incentives for auto manufacturers to provide methane powered cars and eventually the idea faded except for a few fleet type vehicles run mostly by cities and large companies. Since you couldn't drive distances that would require a fill up the idea languished.

 

Now all of a sudden a new look is being given to cars powered by things other than gasoline. We missed out on at least 30 years of research and, more importantly, development into an area that had real promise. Methane has several advantages over refined petroleum but these things were never developed to the utmost due to development directed at gasoline.

 

Natural gas doesn't require any where near as many steps as Gasoline to make it a viable fuel. The use of methane would cut out way to many middle men and those middle men didn't want an alternative to gasoline to be developed, natural gas is less polluting than gasoline. If a sizable percentage of cars had been switched over to methane no only would we be using much less gasoline, we would be polluting less, using engines for a longer period of time between rebuilds and doing research and development on a fuel that is superior to gasoline in many ways.

 

At the time natural gas was so cheap and in so little demand that in many cases it was simply burned off as a waste product from other processes. Can I say absolutely that methane would have taken over from gasoline? No, but it would have helped create a new mind set about fuel and allowed for the possibility of more choices than we have now.

 

Moving to a new fuel because you have a choice is much more comfortable than moving out of desperation because you have no choice. I think we would be much better off if we had several different choices for fuel.

 

Another thing that is hitting us hard about fuel is the NIMBY idea. Gasoline requires refineries, in the US and in other countries, refineries are not exactly good neighbors. The scarcity of gasoline has more than one reason and the lack of refineries is one of them.

 

So many choices but have we really capitalized on any of them? No, not even the easy ones. The problem of fuel for vehicles should be looked at on a regional basis. In some area's natural gas might be a viable answer, in others bio-diesel of some sort might be it. Even steam powered cars could be viable in the right places. Too much emphasis and with that too much control has been given to oil and gasoline. So far all we seem to get are ideas instead of hardware!

[Kayra]

I love spending 1/2 a day struggling to understand 20% of what UncleAl states in just 1 post. Of course, when he goes post crazy it makes it difficult to complete my real work :confused:

[jedcline]

Are there online resources where I can find numbers as to energy density for various hydrocarbon fuels such as ethanol, gasoline, methane, diesel fuel, vegetable oils, "diesel fuel tree" oil, animal fats, coal, blown particulates such as corn starch and pulverized switchgrass, and a variety of woods, combusted theoretically optimally with air? Also for outline descriptions as to how these values were measured. And sites showing efficiency of hydrocarbon fuels conversion into mechanical and/or electrical energy, for various constant-rpm engines, fuel cells or other means. Also the processes for conversion, by man or nature, of each of their combustion byproducts back into the fuel forms by use of sunlight's energy by photosynthesis by various kinds of plants or other means, so as to close the energy cycle. Maybe this needs to be a separate thread but as a newbie to the forum I cannot post new threads yet.

[jedcline]

Also wondering (maybe too far off-topic re the diesel tree?) if injected hydrogen peroxide has been tried as the oxidizer in a small fuel injection internal combustion engine, instead of burning air, possibly useful in some applications.