Terra Preta Group and Blog?

[Essay]

Ok, thanks :hihi:

 

At the end of the season I will test the ph of my TP mixtures. Then compare with the various soils I used for those mixes.

I wonder if it would be accurate to test the ph of groundup char itself?

 

...been watching paper dry over the past couple of hours.

My red and blue Litmus, and the Nitrazine paper all showed virtually no change relative to distilled water.

 

I'm thinking I should have soaked the char for longer maybe, before testing the solution. I'll try again tomorrow.

 

The char really likes the nitrazine paper; just grabbed right on to it. Fortunately it was just one side and didn't affect the color on the other side.

 

IMHO, char acts more as a buffer to either acid or alkaline (maybe depending on the source, firing temp., duration, etc.; but I don't think it's a major source or either acidity or alkalinity.

 

...activated charcoal goes straight into our fishtanks, regardless of the optimum pH level of a particular tank, doesn't it?

I could see that there is more potential for acidity (organic acids) left in the low-temp. charcoal; but these are not strong acids or bases.

IMHO?

:)

[freeztar]

I tested my pile of charcoal with 2 litmus strips and both showed a pH in the range of 8-9. It's worth noting that this is store bought charcoal briquettes. I left them out in the open last summer to see if the rain would grind them down for me. The rain has definitely worked 90% of the pile into very fine grains.

 

I'd imagine that different char would give different results. Perhaps it has the most to do with residual plant resins. I recall Rblack talking about his pine needle char and how it was slightly acidic. In this case, however, the char was produced by pyrolysis (high temp.) so there should be no residues present.

[TerryPradha]

That is interestting. Pine needle chars being slightly acidic whereas briquettes are in the 8 or 9 range.

Are briquettes produced at high temps as the needles were?

This pyrolysis leaves little or no plant residue behind?

 

Talking about 'activated charcoal' for the fish tanks.

Now am I correct in understanding that this type of charcoal is fired at low temps?

Does this type have plant residue, that goes into fish tanks?

 

Sorry for the excessive questions, it is just that reading through the forum I seem to keep forming different ideas about which is what :hihi:

 

Thanks guys, and it will be interesting to see if Essay's reading turns out different tomorrow.

 

I have started a pile using briquettes, mixed with various organic matter and a layer of garden soil in the middle of it. My other mixtures come from campfire chunks that I am assuming has all different levels of burn. Some of it crumbled in my hand quite easily and others turned out to be only slightly charred.

[Essay]

Talking about 'activated charcoal' for the fish tanks.

Now am I correct in understanding that this type of charcoal is fired at low temps?

Does this type have plant residue, that goes into fish tanks?

...btw...ran across this....

Wood ash, an organic amendment, is high in both pH and salt. It can magnify common Colorado soil problems and should not be used as a soil amendment. -from

Choosing a Soil Amendment

 

===

As to "activated," I think the more complete and high temperature the charring, the more activated it is.

 

I think the goal (in activation, not TP) is to get the carbon into it's most highly reduced, graphenic, state. Then, throughout the irregular structure (broken graphene), you'll essentially have naked (well, scantily clad) carbon nuclei projecting out into empty space (waiting, eager with anticipation, to be oxidized).

 

:hihi:

[freeztar]

That is interestting. Pine needle chars being slightly acidic whereas briquettes are in the 8 or 9 range.

Are briquettes produced at high temps as the needles were?

 

The briquettes were produced via pyrolysis (high temp) whereas the pine needles were produced via low temp.

I'll try to find the exact post for clarification.

EDIT: Found it! :shrug:

http://hypography.com/forums/chemistry/9882-ph-pine-charcoal.html

This pyrolysis leaves little or no plant residue behind?

Correct, pyrolysis leaves little to no residue behind. This is "activated char", the type used in medicine and fish tanks.

Talking about 'activated charcoal' for the fish tanks.

Now am I correct in understanding that this type of charcoal is fired at low temps?

 

See above.

 

I have started a pile using briquettes, mixed with various organic matter and a layer of garden soil in the middle of it. My other mixtures come from campfire chunks that I am assuming has all different levels of burn. Some of it crumbled in my hand quite easily and others turned out to be only slightly charred.

 

In a campfire situation, you will experience a variety of char effects. Using the "Popcorn tin" method of home-charring, outlined by David G Mills (http://hypography.com/forums/terra-preta/10546-making-charcoal.html#post162382), it's possible to create much more controlled circumstances (low O2) than an open campfire will allow.

[TerryPradha]

Thanks for the forum sites. This one I found to be disturbing.

 

Thanks for the website. I didn't find anything there but did find that hardwoods make soils have a higher ph the softwoods (conifers) and an interesting fact that hardwood increased the CEC of soils but conifer actually decreased it. This from "Ameliorating physical and chemical properties of highly weathered soils in the tropics with charcoal", Glaser, Lehmann, Zeck 2002

 

I thought it was the carbon that provided CEC rates. I didn't go to the article yet, but may have to see these ideas in context. I have a large pile of pine that I was thinking about reducing to char. But now I am not sure what I gain if I am reducing CEC. :eek:

[TerryPradha]

...btw...ran across this....

Wood ash, an organic amendment, is high in both pH and salt. It can magnify common Colorado soil problems and should not be used as a soil amendment. -from

Choosing a Soil Amendment

 

===

As to "activated," I think the more complete and high temperature the charring, the more activated it is.

 

I think the goal (in activation, not TP) is to get the carbon into it's most highly reduced, graphenic, state. Then, throughout the irregular structure (broken graphene), you'll essentially have naked (well, scantily clad) carbon nuclei projecting out into empty space (waiting, eager with anticipation, to be oxidized).

 

:eek:

 

Ok, thanks. That makes sense to me. It is the scantily clad carbon that does the filtering, so we would automatically eliminate the plant residue as much as possible. For that process.

In the TP idea we want to preserve some plant residue for the wee beasties.

[if I am following correctly]

 

What if, instead of leaving the residue of the plant, we went with the high carbon char. Then filled the char's condos with something other than the original plant material that the char was made from?

Does it work that way?

[Essay]

What if, instead of leaving the residue of the plant, we went with the high carbon char. Then filled the char's condos with something other than the original plant material that the char was made from?

Does it work that way?

I think that's valid. You could soak activated char in MiracleGrow and make a time-release fertilizer (I'm speculating).

Equally(?), used fishtank filter charcoal would be "charged" with "fertilizer."

 

...btw

My new pH tests looks about the same, fairly neutral.

 

See a "pH report" on the TP Blog (click on "Terra Preta Social Group").

:shrug:

[Michaelangelica]

It's an interesting question.

I guess the only way to know is to experiment and find out. :shrug:

I don't know how char works on pH.

I think it may change over time.

Some timed experiments, testing every few months, would be a good idea.

 

An interesting article on soil just posted on The TP list

The future of dirt - The Boston Globe

[TerryPradha]

I think that's valid. You could soak activated char in MiracleGrow and make a time-release fertilizer (I'm speculating).

Equally(?), used fishtank filter charcoal would be "charged" with "fertilizer."

 

...btw

My new pH tests looks about the same, fairly neutral.

 

See a "pH report" on the TP Blog (click on "Terra Preta Social Group").

:phones:

 

That is what I meant, exactly. :phones:

Like an empty container filling itself with whatever it can adsorb.

 

Perhaps the different things that are added, affect the ph?

There really seems to be alot of differing ideas.

The CEC difference, being a BIG one.

 

I looked through the 4 pages for a "Terra Preta Social Group" but couldn't find it.

 

I wonder if plants will grow in pure char?

The plant would be required to survive off of whatever the char was filled with.

[Essay]

I looked through the 4 pages for a "Terra Preta Social Group" but couldn't find it. :(

 

Yes, the elite "social groups," hidden away so well (IMHO, the system could use a few improvements).

 

On the Right hand side of the screen (for the main forums page)...

Look below "recent posts," "no replies," and ""sci. news" to find...

 

"Random Social Groups" ...and click on "View All Groups" (at the bottom of the list) if TP doesn't happen to be on the randomly selected list.

...and find the list of "social groups" there.

That's the official TP blog (from what I've been told); but it doesn't notify the group members when a post goes up. :)

 

I'm leaning toward using this thread as an unofficial method of "notification."

:)

 

p.s. Glad the "scantily clad" reference was enjoyed. :lol:

I always prefer to think of hydrogen ions as "naked protons" (and scantily clad, even when bound -oooh, kinky! ;)), so it was neat to extend the metaphor to a whole nucleus.

;) Beavis, ...he said "extend."

[Michaelangelica]

This sort of article will give TP a bad name, even if it is a good idea.

Has anyone got access to the original New scientist article?

Could felling trees and burying them help fight global warming?

[freeztar]

This sort of article...

 

...Would be great in the TP social group or a blog. :D :eek_big:

[TerryPradha]

Yes, the elite "social groups," hidden away so well (IMHO, the system could use a few improvements).

 

On the Right hand side of the screen (for the main forums page)...

Look below "recent posts," "no replies," and ""sci. news" to find...

 

"Random Social Groups" ...and click on "View All Groups" (at the bottom of the list) if TP doesn't happen to be on the randomly selected list.

...and find the list of "social groups" there.

That's the official TP blog (from what I've been told); but it doesn't notify the group members when a post goes up. ;)

 

I'm leaning toward using this thread as an unofficial method of "notification."

:evil:

 

p.s. Glad the "scantily clad" reference was enjoyed. :evil:

I always prefer to think of hydrogen ions as "naked protons" (and scantily clad, even when bound -oooh, kinky! :esmoking:), so it was neat to extend the metaphor to a whole nucleus.

:) Beavis, ...he said "extend."

 

Thanks Essay, I did get to where you had posted a list of ideas for the social group, but not the inner circle by any means.

I checked out the url you posted and was able to read page one.

 

Here they claimed high acid exchance and high CEC on High temperature char.

I liked the idea they were innoculating the char with various things.

 

You were the first person to indicate that it would be a good idea. This article was the second.

 

You'll have to make a dvd for school kids to pique their interest in chemistry. Call it: "Naked Protons!!! Bound,,, For Food"

All the kids will be thinking that 'Protons', is the Irish name for, 'Amazons' :evil:

[Essay]

Thanks Essay, I did get to where you had posted a list of ideas for the social group, but not the inner circle by any means.

I think that's as "inner" as it gets; but I'm new here, don't rely on me! :confused: I just figured out clicking on someone's icon led to a "comments" page. :)

You'll have to make a dvd for school kids to pique their interest in chemistry. Call it: "Naked Protons!!! Bound,,, For Food"

All the kids will be thinking that 'Protons', is the Irish name for, 'Amazons' :)Irish?

Good idea!

...exchanging fluids and cations in the dark Carbon Caves filled with scantily clad nucleons protruding out, waiting anxiously.... :hihi:

 

~Later

/forums/images/smilies/banana_sign.gif

[freeztar]

Thanks Essay, I did get to where you had posted a list of ideas for the social group, but not the inner circle by any means.

That's as far as the inner circle goes. :)

The idea behind this thread (originally) was to set up a TP social group so we could all share pictures, techniques, etc.

Ironically, this thread has become the repository.

 

With all the TP threads and topics here at Hypography, it can become difficult to remember which thread you read, or posted, a particular idea in. This makes it difficult to reshare this information. By having a central location to "blog" from (present news, pics, etc.), it makes finding the info much easier. This is the reason Essay created the index thread for the massive "TP parent thread". It makes it a lot easier to find the info.

 

So, while I don't personally have any problems with people posting in this thread, I don't think it helps with organization to have multiple subjects of TP (wee beasties, CEC, pottery, etc.) in one place when there is already a "catchall" space, as well as separate threads that deal with these issues individually. Hopefully that clears up some of the confusion. :confused:

 

Any ideas on how to better organize this massive resource are certainly welcome. :hihi:

[Michaelangelica]

This is very topical.

I am being sent emails telling me all TP is "wrong"

Limitations Of Charcoal As An Effective Carbon Sink

Sigh, if people only understood the scientific process.

 

Monday bummer blogging | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist

An interesting discussion of the Swedish paper I just posted in "research".

Read that first before going to this blog or the Science article above- both seem to have based their reports on the press release.