The DOW dilemma, do the ends really justify the means?

[jackson33]

Hello Jackson,

 

One thing separates Rupert Murdoch from other US media barrons, he's the only one to renounce his citizenship of his country of birth to facilitate his increase in wealth and power. That's the problem, he has no sense of real patriotism or love for your country, only opportunities for making more money.

 

While some capitalists may think that he's the perfect person to control a large slab of your financial media, when the crunch comes and the choice is between making money or doing the right thing by his country of birth (or citizenship), what would you expect him to do?

 

If Murdoch, when becoming a US Citizen in 1985, was forced to give up Australian Citizenship it would be from your laws. Dual citizenship in the US is very common and afforded him all he needed...

 

there are many factors involved with economy, its stability or its downturns. we certainly are due for a major correction, but when this happens it will not be for whats written in the Wall Street Journal.

 

think Newscorp has about 50k, employees doing jobs generally related to media. to suggest that one 78 year old man can control this business to any effective degree is outside my ability to reason.

 

frankly the Dow/Newscorp, buy out has Roger Ailes fingerprints all over it. if anything Murdoch is a latent socialist in many ways, while Ailes remains a die hart conservative/capitalist.

[jackson33]

You really need to find a broadband connection and watch the video...

 

they say its getting to small town USA, soon....I deal a little in Stocks which using Scottrade software, is as fast as anything available, even over a phone line.

 

my arguments however in regards to media, top the list of how the consumers effect the bottom line on the quarterly report. as mentioned the trends that are obvious (which is increasing or decreasing) are valid to determine the near futures of particular forms of media. if Newscorp was as corrupt or greedy as some think, the results couldn't be what they are. as Murdoch himself has said, when you have success, there will be some scar tissue out there.

[InfiniteNow]

as Murdoch himself has said, when you have success, there will be some scar tissue out there.

 

Unfortunately, it is the well-being of our society itself which is being scarred by his activities.

 

 

"Free media is the central nervous system of a well functioning society."

 

Here are the stories we are covering today, here are the stories we are shutting down. :doh:

 

 

:cup:

[jackson33]

what stories that are covered by any one organization are designed to attract that audience i speak of, not necessarily to meet the view points of any one person. the practice is done by all media, not just Newscorp. these priorities relate to 30 minute newscast, front pages and things the organization feels its audience caters to. local news, editorials, pages 2 through whatever still contain all the issues to some degree. a for instance can easily be found on the NY Times any day of the week. a pro Hillary pole will be found on page one and no pro Bush pole has ever been found on the front page. nothing is shut down, but is prioritized.

 

free media, means free from the government which it is. beyond that its a commercial venture with all the trimming to profit. Murdoch's latest personal opinion which made headlines, was Global Warming is an issue. all his offices, buildings and homes are now on watch to assure some compliance. however you will not see GW as an issue on any Fox network.

[LaurieAG]

what stories that are covered by any one organization are designed to attract that audience i speak of, not necessarily to meet the view points of any one person. the practice is done by all media, not just Newscorp. these priorities relate to 30 minute newscast, front pages and things the organization feels its audience caters to. local news, editorials, pages 2 through whatever still contain all the issues to some degree. a for instance can easily be found on the NY Times any day of the week. a pro Hillary pole will be found on page one and no pro Bush pole has ever been found on the front page. nothing is shut down, but is prioritized.

 

free media, means free from the government which it is. beyond that its a commercial venture with all the trimming to profit. Murdoch's latest personal opinion which made headlines, was Global Warming is an issue. all his offices, buildings and homes are now on watch to assure some compliance. however you will not see GW as an issue on any Fox network.

 

Hello Jackson,

 

Here's a quote from the book 'Weapons of Mass Deception - The uses of propaganda in Bush's war on Iraq' by Sheldon Rampton & John Stauber.

 

'Fox Network owner Rupert Murdoch brilliantly exploited the wartime political environment, in which even extreme nationalistic rhetoric was accepted and popular, while liberals and critics were pressured to walk softly and carry no stick at all. In addition to Fox, Murdoch owns a worldwide network of 140 sensationalist tabloid newspapers - 40 million papers a week, dominating the newspaper markets in Britain, Australia and New Zealand - all of which adopted editorial positions in support of war in Iraq.'

 

I find it refreshing that there are researchers out there who apply scientific principles to expose the hypocrisy that was embraced by the Coalition Of the Willing (cow or herd?) politicians and force fed to their people. No wonder the whole thing leaves a bad smell.

 

While there were no Australian dual citizenships available when RM cancelled his, the Australian federal government has passed laws so that those people who had to renounce their Australian citizenship to become citizens of another country, could become Australian citizens again. For all I know RM could already be an Australian citizen and Australia's richest man again, but I doubt that his newspapers would publish the fact (you know, the old US patriotism thingo).

 

Also, considering that there has been a (disturbingly) distinct religious side to GWB's global war on terrorism, further examination should be given to RM's religious convictions. In the early 90's RM donated $250,000 (could be 250,000,000) to the Catholic church. As a result of this generosity he was made a Papal knight. When the crunch came who did he think had a moral mandate, the Pope who was against a war on Iraq or GWB?

 

Realistically Jackson, the Iraq debacle provides a text book example of global propaganda at work with the inevitable consequences. While most people don't blame the US people for the atrocious (and extremely disrespectful) behaviour of their (and our) ruling politicians, don't expect much sympathy from the people of the world if you welcome with open arms, the same patterns of deception in your financial media (because everybody will be in a much worse position when the proverbial hits the fan).

[Eclogite]

For my view on this topic please refer to my 'tag line' below.

[LaurieAG]

For my view on this topic please refer to my 'tag line'.

 

Good one Eclogite, especially when what is not being said is more important than what is being said.

[jackson33]

Laurie: while i do worry, my president may have interfering religious interest in decision making, i worry just as much about the religious beliefs of the so called enemy. there is no choice in my mind to accept what are his, over that of the extreme Muslim Cleric, leaders and laws. i also feel, he has set a course to prevent future generations from a problem which has been around for some time. success or not is pending, but there is some light showing at the end of this tunnel. i do not consider it a failure, but an on going event which as history will show often has too many arm chair generals giving opinions.

 

as for charitable donations 250k or million by Murdoch, billions to the UN by Ted Turner or the 85 Billion by Bill Gates or any of the others you would need to check out our tax structure. Charitable Trust Funds are very common investment programs for the rich.

 

my point in joining this thread, was to explain the often misunderstood process of corporate success. it simple does not happen if there is no acceptance by the public in that product or service.

 

TWX (Time Warner and a Ted Turner product) has a market value of 79 Billion, with 93k employees and does about 45 billion in sales per year.

DIS (Disney) has a market value of 68 billion, 133k employees and does 36 billion in annual sales.

NWS.A (Newscorp and near all in publications or daily media) has a market value of 69 Billion, 47K employees doing 28.1 in yearly sales.

GET (Gaylord, the only other under Media Diversified), ranked forth with a value of 2 billion, 9k employees and does about 1 billion in sales.

 

this is success at its best in which the acceptance is not out of necessity.

 

by the way DJ (Dow Jones Group) is a 5 billion dollar company, 8k employees and does 2 billion in sales. all these figures are current and all listings are on the NYX (NY Stock Exchange) which i do own shares in...

 

On the Fox News angle, you really need to check out Roger Ailes, influence on RM, the conservative movements and the pending financial news channel.

[LaurieAG]

Hello Jackson,

 

The last word is in the reports about the proposed sale printed in The Australian newspaper. Apart from articles about the progress of the negotiations, guess where the only supporting article came from?

 

Just in case you can't see the wood for the trees, it was from someone involved in a hedge fund!

[jackson33]

Hello Jackson,

 

The last word is in the reports about the proposed sale printed in The Australian newspaper. Apart from articles about the progress of the negotiations, guess where the only supporting article came from?

 

Just in case you can't see the wood for the trees, it was from someone involved in a hedge fund!

 

W/O checking the proposed deal which is shown in Australia, the last report I had was that(6-29 CNBC), by agreement the general construct of the Wall Street Journal, would not be altered. Since that claim by Murdoch's people directly rechecks your original fear, I see no problems. Again however the WSJ is somewhat conservative or as said before, like minded to Newscorp...

 

I don't follow Hedge Funds, don't encourage and frankly concerned about there influence on the marketplace. Some are saying these funds are shorting DOW, which if Newscorp fails in negotiations would take a billion so off the value of DOW. Personally, I feel the deal is a go, which in this case will cost those funds...

[LaurieAG]

Some are saying these funds are shorting DOW, which if Newscorp fails in negotiations would take a billion so off the value of DOW. Personally, I feel the deal is a go, which in this case will cost those funds...

 

Hello Jackson,

 

In Australia we have recently had a case where QANTAS (Queensland And Northern Territory Aerial Service, actually the worlds first international airline, still without a crash) was in a similar situation, private equity at the gates and a horde of hedge funds inside waiting to sell. When the deal fell through the hedge funds had to hold the market price or injure their own interests.

 

I don't follow Hedge Funds, don't encourage and frankly concerned about there influence on the marketplace.

 

I read recently that hedge funds and private equity are now responsible for around 1/3 of the fees generated on Wall Street each year. While you have good economic sense not to be involved with them you should realise that their risk is your risk while they have the capacity to destabilise the wider financial market.

 

At the moment the politicians only seem concerned about where the profits go, not the losses or who will be the losers due to their lack of responsible supervision.

[jackson33]

Laurie; My concern with Hedge Funds are in the shorting of stocks. Putts/Calls are nothing new, just not my cup of tea. In not following them, guess its maybe there are 6000-6600 of them. Private equity, I do follow, so long as they are listed and can be quickly liquidated. Ed Lambert, via Sears Holding Co., a good example (SHLD).

 

I suppose they generate the greatest *fee's*, because they have the highest generated gains for the very largest of investors. Most are based on performance to start with, meaning those fee's come from the gains. The current transparency issue, these funds are not required come from the selective nature of their clients. Like a local group of people or the investments clubs, which no governing form can touch, outside the rules we are all subject to...

 

ETF's, Mutual Funds are regulated and traded in the markets daily, which make them equal to a corporation or a requirement of certain public right to certain information.

 

Where I think you going, is the control of a stock via the quantities of options purchased or the idea many feel the stock will go up or down over set periods, whether some reason for the thought is insider information or some rumor. This any investor can do alone, or in my case I will buy a stock, feeling its a good take over company, or that earning estimates are to low. Any listed stock, on any major exchange has all the information out there to make such decisions.

 

Dog; If your following this thread, Someplace I recall you mentioned a program you devised where by the cost were to high for practical use. I am a stock picker or day trader, but limit myself to 10 stocks on any one day. However there are now some financial institutions, which have *No trading cost* with minimal accounts down to 25K. Although I do not practice any of the curve, chart or cyclical systems, the cost now for such programs are near non existent. I stay with Scottrade, for the software, suites my taste, charges $7/trade and for this still requires that 25K account...

[LaurieAG]

Laurie; My concern with Hedge Funds are in the shorting of stocks. Putts/Calls are nothing new, just not my cup of tea. In not following them, guess its maybe there are 6000-6600 of them. Private equity, I do follow, so long as they are listed and can be quickly liquidated. Ed Lambert, via Sears Holding Co., a good example (SHLD).

 

Hello jackson33,

 

Did you hear about how the second largest (was largest until recently) global gold miner has wiped out its hedge book and merchant bank? Could it be that the directors have better things to do with their (time and) money than playing games with manipulative speculators?

 

Also, considering that we are experiencing an unusually long period of prosperity shouldn't we be putting someting away for that rainy day? The problem with private equity (and hedge fund leverage) is that the extra debt foisted on their acquisitions effectively removes their capacity to weather future storms, let alone the odd rainy day.

 

These 'unthinkable' things bring to mind what I call the ancient greek roots of 95 percent confidence from Homers 'Odyssey'. 19 years after the start of the Trojan war, the suitors and their girlfriends had 95 percent confidence that Odysseus would not return by the end of the 20th year, and look what happened to them.

[jackson33]

Laurie; All of the larger gold/silver miner's are international. This an area, not only do I follow, but have had success with. The current largest miner is Barrick Gold, (ABX-NYSE..26.5 Billion Cap) and think your misunderstanding of some event. Barrick bought out Placer Dome in 2006, which was one of the largest. There was no foul play and PD stock holders made out just fine. ANY one or entity shorting either of these stocks, lost big time. The second largest now and was 1st, Newmont Mining (NEM-NYSE..19 Billion Cap) is also doing just fine. Your local bunch Newcrest Mining (ASX..ASE..6.3 Billion) although affiliated with Newmont is Australia's largest and doing fine. There have been a good many buy-outs or mergers in the mining of all metals and I know of no major in any area failing.

 

Hedge funds, buy/sell very few actual stock, some none at all. They leverage huge amounts of stocks by predicting rise or falls in future values. These transaction (options) are available to those that follow or feel they know what going on. When you see a sudden and prolong surge in a stock on some relatively minor news, this is a result of Hedge Funds bailing out of shorts or taking a loss.

 

I couldn't agree more that after a 6-7 years rise in Company Stock Values the the markets are due a correction. This from the Tech Bubble Collapse and the 9-11 event to today. However I see nothing indicating a dramatic drop over 10% and not quickly rebounding. Your in a little different position, being closer to China's economy which is suffering from TO MUCH growth, not the lack of....

[LaurieAG]

Hello Jackson33, sorry for not replying earlier.

 

The second largest now and was 1st, Newmont Mining (NEM-NYSE..19 Billion Cap) is also doing just fine. Your local bunch Newcrest Mining (ASX..ASE..6.3 Billion) although affiliated with Newmont is Australia's largest and doing fine.

 

Newcrest may be listed on the ASX but it more like a subsidiary than a affiliate. Apparently the price of gold is supposed to increase substantially in the future and, in this situation, any hedging just reduces your profit potential.

 

Hedge funds, buy/sell very few actual stock, some none at all. They leverage huge amounts of stocks by predicting rise or falls in future values.

 

Actually the original Black Scholes method relied on the difference in closing out two identical but opposite options. The rocket science bit is similar to a communications system for an entity travelling at the speed of light between two points A and B, both one light year apart. The method involves sending light pulses from both points to the entity (you will have to start one before the entity starts moving) so that the entity has a grip on absolute time as well as its own relative time and position (similar to GPS satellite locationing systems). The ideal result is that both plus and negative timing pulses arrive at the entity at the same time i.e. the ideal result is a zero sum game because any mismatch whatsoever means that there is no communication being made.

 

I couldn't agree more that after a 6-7 years rise in Company Stock Values the the markets are due a correction. This from the Tech Bubble Collapse and the 9-11 event to today. However I see nothing indicating a dramatic drop over 10% and not quickly rebounding. Your in a little different position, being closer to China's economy which is suffering from TO MUCH growth, not the lack of....

 

When the $AU (and pound etc) is rocketing upwards it means that the US$ is actually dropping in value. Does anybody actually calculate a non US$ based index (global/absolute not national/relative) that normalises a stock market index to its relative national currency value? It would be interesting to see a chart of these absolute values since 1970. Have you read James Clavelles 'Noble House'?

[LaurieAG]

pesky duplicate

[jackson33]

Laurie; Many of the larger and for sure all of the smaller mining companies will take on a project as a *joint venture*, by percentages. Suppose this is the extreme cost involved. This is true in much of the commodity industry, one of which I follow the Canadian Oil Fields, where 20-30 different companies are involved. When a stock is listed, that company is its own entity, which any person or group can own a percentage.

 

The price of Gold, according to the ones that follow, feel it as stabilized, with if anything a decrease in value in the near future. Currently the cost to mine one ounce of gold is 280 to 320 US dollars per. Yamana Gold (AUY), claims the lowest price, but remember all mine operations involve other metals or what is considered by-products. London Mining (LMC), the most diversified with 6 to 8 other metal involved, with some quantity. At 700-800 US Dollars many governments will release gold into the markets and gold can be artificially produced, probably at about 800$ per ounce. At this time the value of gold is purely at the mercy of speculative demand. The only true consumer value is in collectible or jewelry. Commemorative Coinage, the biggest, out pacing jewelry.

 

Values of national currency is complicated, I am sure you know. To compare any one must have another's to give meaning. Here we of course use the US Dollar and compared to the Euro-Pound-Canadian$ has been going down. This only means that it takes more US$ to buy that unit or something from that country or say to visit. It means very little, internally, which inflation is the usual result, with a decreased value. I do expect increased inflation in the US and higher interest rates, very soon.

 

No I have not read *Noble House* by James Clavell or any of his works. Frankly I do not recall the last Novel I did read other than Louis Lamoure and stick pretty much to short stories or text books. I have seen some of the movies made from his work.

 

For a historical view of the value's of currency, you might check out

*measuringworth.com*. They have a calculator which will compare many currencies, from many years of existence. The US, I think goes from 1790 to 2005.

 

As to the original point of this thread; Fox News announced last week, the start up of its *Business Channel*, later this year. The announcement was made by *Roger Ailes*, indicates the Newscorp/Dow deal is near or has been completed. The interesting thing here is that the WSJ, has been the backbone of the CNBC cable channel for years. Many of the commentators, even staff, work for the WSJ. GE, which owns NBC, has surprised me by not trying to jump in on the deal....