The Ark, the Flooding, and, Earth's Mass ?...

[CerebralEcstasy]

Certainly my tolerance has reduced with (recent) exposure to silliness. I'm a member of a society that includes people who believe this nonsense, the fact that it's silly does not imply that it's inconsequential.

 

I'm a member of a society that includes people who attribute the creation of the universe to chance, but my tolerance is pretty high...

 

I think I mistook your usage of the word silly to mean that you didn't think such matters were worthy of even considering or lacking importance, which to me constitutes the meaning of the word inconsequential.

 

Just out of curiousity, why do you consider it nonsense? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

[InfiniteNow]

Just out of curiousity, why do you consider it nonsense? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

 

Are you making a joke? You're asking why someone considers a story whereby a 600 year old man built a gigantic boat and loaded two of EVERY animal on it because some voice in the sky told him to do so before a flood came... silly? Which piece is NOT silly? The part about the boat? The two of every animal? The invention of wine? The supercentenarian acting by the will of his personal flying spagetti monster? That all of mankind was wicked and deserving of God's anger, but Noah was that one special soldier who deserved to be carnivorous, but should simultaneously be shameful of his own nudity?

 

Ughaibu can answer for himself, but seriously... come on. :confused:

 

I must support the undertone of the original comment whereby it is faith in the face of evidence to the contrary that is slowing us down as a society and leading to our own detriment.

[ughaibu]

CerebralEcstasy: InfiniteNow has pretty much summed up the detail. More generally speaking, as a piece of history, I consider the story to be nonsense because it comes from an unreliable source and is composed of fantastic elements. As a piece of fiction, I find it bland and uninteresting, but that of course is a question of taste.

[maikeru]

Fair enough, I see your point.

 

What I wonder though is why all of these peoples considered it an act of God. Several different parts of the world, several different belief systems.....however all of them think God was supremely ticked off.

 

First, not all of them thought it was "God" as in the sense of the Judeo-Christian God. Gods, spirits, demigods, heroes, villains, monsters, etc. work just as well, and are recorded in various flood stories. Second, deus irae (god of wrath) wasn't always the cause.

 

Deluge (mythology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Take a gander and you'll see the other actors strut their stuff; e.g., Viracocha (Incan), a giant snake (Indonesian), or river dragons (Chinese).

 

Where does such a notion arise from? Could it have came from Noah?

 

From experiencing horrific natural flooding events, as CraigD suggests?

 

Humans have a tendency to live near rivers, lakes, and seas, for water, food/agriculture, and transportation...and perhaps it's no surprise that those areas might be prone to flooding. Take a look at any map, historical or current, and you'll see that most major population centers are located near water.

[CerebralEcstasy]

CerebralEcstasy: InfiniteNow has pretty much summed up the detail. More generally speaking, as a piece of history, I consider the story to be nonsense because it comes from an unreliable source and is composed of fantastic elements. As a piece of fiction, I find it bland and uninteresting, but that of course is a question of taste.

 

Fair enough.

[CerebralEcstasy]

Are you making a joke? You're asking why someone considers a story whereby a 600 year old man built a gigantic boat and loaded two of EVERY animal on it because some voice in the sky told him to do so before a flood came... silly? Which piece is NOT silly? The part about the boat? The two of every animal? The invention of wine? The supercentenarian acting by the will of his personal flying spagetti monster? That all of mankind was wicked and deserving of God's anger, but Noah was that one special soldier who deserved to be carnivorous, but should simultaneously be shameful of his own nudity?

 

Ughaibu can answer for himself, but seriously... come on. :)

 

I must support the undertone of the original comment whereby it is faith in the face of evidence to the contrary that is slowing us down as a society and leading to our own detriment.

 

I suppose I should have been more specific. I've read a lot of Ug's posts, and I know his position on the topic of God.

 

I wanted to know more about how he arrived at his conclusions - I wanted to know why he didn't believe. If he ever did etc.

 

Most people that I have spoken with, have at one point in time believed in a higher power, yet for some reason or another have moved away from that line of thinking. I wanted to know if this was the case with Ug.

 

I look back at what I wrote....and it does indeed seem like I'm asking him why they don't believe this particular story. My apologies for lack of clarity.

[ughaibu]

As it goes, I've never believed in god, however, I dont see that a belief in god requires people to believe ridiculous stories about humans. Naturally I have been aware that some people believe in god, for most of my life, but it's only recently that I became aware that there are creationists who deny evolution and, even more shockingly, that there are people who believe the story of Noah.

[tmaromine]

A realisation pertaining to a global flood (as the Bible speaks of it):

 

If the true global flood happened, then, how were there other cultures – other humans – that were able to record that a flood took place ? Wasn't this to wipe everyone but Jesus Noah and the animals out ?

 

Had the Bible's global flood actually occurred, there would not be other cultures and areas and peoples who'd have been able to record a globally-killing flood. So isn't the mere fact that other cultures "recorded" a globally-killing flood that was 'meant to kill all but all animals and about 5 humans' reason enough to say that a global-killing flood did not occur ?

 

(Jesus Noah and The Animals sounds like some 70s group...)

 

 

And just to add my thoughts, I stopped believing (once, I too did) when I simply started to think about things and life, on a 'humanic'/human level. People, especially when down, need some one who is always there. . .and there is also the (as-of-21st-century obsolete) reason that people wanted and 'needed' knowledge. I didn't get to much into the scientific refutations of things religious until this year really.

 

Science requires you to repeatedly observe something or go out and look for the answers 'away from base'. Religion, just requires you to 'think', and then stop thinking...

[CraigD]

I wanted to know more about how he [ughaibu] arrived at his conclusions - I wanted to know why he didn't believe. If he ever did etc.

 

Most people that I have spoken with, have at one point in time believed in a higher power, yet for some reason or another have moved away from that line of thinking. I wanted to know if this was the case with Ug.

I think this is an excellent question, which addresses perhaps the most significant modern theological question existent: why do people believe, or not believe, in a deity. In turn, this question is helpful in promoting good will and understanding among the many people who do, and don’t, Believe.

 

Because it’s off the topic of all things Great Flood and Noah’s Ark related, I’ve started a new poll thread for it: 11487 Interested hypographers, please attend.

[silverslith]

Its probably already been mentioned, but meltwater pulses 1A,1B,1C,1D are studied rapid sea level rises in the last 20000 years.

In Alaska in the 1950's some Oil geologists and fishermen in boats got swept up a mountain by a wave that got ~1500 feet altitude up it. After watching the treetops flash past them far below, they rode the backwash and survived. Big landslide caused it then and multiple previous times.

Mega Tsunami from asteroids are supposed to happen every few hundred years on average. Geologic evidence in Australia, Antarctica, NZ 1400AD, Britain 1600AD and something: bristol channel etc.

Mega Tsunami from underwater landslides, Geologic evidence in Hawaii, Bahamas.

Mega Tsunami speculated from global warming:

-Methane hydrate eruptions from sediment causing landslides on continental incline.

-Increased risk of underwater landslides by erosion from volcanic islands.

-Risk of glacial ice slabs from antarctica hitting the water fast because Ice Shelves are gone.

Might be a good time to build an Ark. God told me so, honest!:)

[CerebralEcstasy]

A realisation pertaining to a global flood (as the Bible speaks of it):

 

If the true global flood happened, then, how were there other cultures – other humans – that were able to record that a flood took place ? Wasn't this to wipe everyone but Jesus and the animals out ?

 

Had the Bible's global flood actually occurred, there would not be other cultures and areas and peoples who'd have been able to record a globally-killing flood. So isn't the mere fact that other cultures "recorded" a globally-killing flood that was 'meant to kill all but all animals and about 5 humans' reason enough to say that a global-killing flood did not occur ?

 

(Jesus and The Animals sounds like some 70s group...)

 

 

And just to add my thoughts, I stopped believing (once, I too did) when I simply started to think about things and life, on a 'humanic'/human level. People, especially when down, need some one who is always there. . .and there is also the (as-of-21st-century obsolete) reason that people wanted and 'needed' knowledge. I didn't get to much into the scientific refutations of things religious until this year really.

 

Science requires you to repeatedly observe something or go out and look for the answers 'away from base'. Religion, just requires you to 'think', and then stop thinking...

 

Just to clarify...Jesus had not been born yet according to the scriptural account.

 

It was Noah, his sons (Ham, Shem and Japheth) and their wives that are said to have survived. Sons of Noah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia along with the selection of animals loaded onto the ark.

 

There are several different versions of this account, both of which appear in the Koran and Torah.

 

With respect your opinion about science and religion, I agree to some degree.

 

I wouldn't be part of any religion that did not allow me to continuously question whether or not it was accurate based on current knowledge, and that found in the past.

[CerebralEcstasy]

I think this is an excellent question, which addresses perhaps the most significant modern theological question existent: why do people believe, or not believe, in a deity. In turn, this question is helpful in promoting good will and understanding among the many people who do, and don’t, Believe.

 

Because it’s off the topic of all things Great Flood and Noah’s Ark related, I’ve started a new poll thread for it: 11487 Interested hypographers, please attend.

 

Thanks. We have a similar poll floating about, but it's more directed to what we believe and not why.

 

For those of us who still believe, it's good to know another viewpoint and perhaps have the opportunity to clear up misconceptions about religion that have caused some to throw their hands up in disgust with the whole thing.

 

Religion in general has a bad reputation, and God (if you believe in such a deity) has been maligned by people claiming to be doing his will.

 

We see evidence of it on the news every night. Bush claiming God is backing his war, terrorism in God's name, clergy raping children and the list goes on, and on, and on.....

[tmaromine]

Its probably already been mentioned, but meltwater pulses 1A,1B,1C,1D are studied rapid sea level rises in the last 20000 years.

In Alaska in the 1950's some Oil geologists and fishermen in boats got swept up a mountain by a wave that got ~1500 feet altitude up it. After watching the treetops flash past them far below, they rode the backwash and survived. Big landslide caused it then and multiple previous times.

Mega Tsunami from asteroids are supposed to happen every few hundred years on average. Geologic evidence in Australia, Antarctica, NZ 1400AD, Britain 1600AD and something: bristol channel etc.

Mega Tsunami from underwater landslides, Geologic evidence in Hawaii, Bahamas.

Mega Tsunami speculated from global warming:

-Methane hydrate eruptions from sediment causing landslides on continental incline.

-Increased risk of underwater landslides by erosion from volcanic islands.

-Risk of glacial ice slabs from antarctica hitting the water fast because Ice Shelves are gone.

Might be a good time to build an Ark. God told me so, honest!:naughty:

 

 

Heard about that wave in Alaska...

 

In reality though, is there any way we could outrun a meteoric-tsunami ? I don't think building an ark and hoping we can ride it would get us far for such. :hihi: (Going off topic...)

 

~~~

 

Just to clarify...Jesus had not been born yet according to the scriptural account.

 

It was Noah, his sons (Ham, Shem and Japheth) and their wives that are said to have survived. Sons of Noah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia along with the selection of animals loaded onto the ark.

 

There are several different versions of this account, both of which appear in the Koran and Torah.

 

With respect your opinion about science and religion, I agree to some degree.

 

I wouldn't be part of any religion that did not allow me to continuously question whether or not it was accurate based on current knowledge, and that found in the past.

 

Agh ! I knew that. . .I don't know why I kept saying Jesus ; Noah is from the OT/pre-Jesus days... Yeah.

 

So the ark's (er, I forgot the word that lists the people onboard a ship...help !)'s of Noah, his sons, all their wives, and Noah's sons' sons and hundreds of animals... Really, I don't know, but would a vessel of wood be able to support two of all species, weight-wise ?. . . . .were there mammoths onboard ?

 

I'm glad that you question and ponder, but I don't see how a god – or at least that of the Bible – could still seem real after questioning and pondering...

 

~~~

 

For those of us who still believe, it's good to know another viewpoint and perhaps have the opportunity to clear up misconceptions about religion that have caused some to throw their hands up in disgust with the whole thing.

 

Religion in general has a bad reputation, and God (if you believe in such a deity) has been maligned by people claiming to be doing his will.

 

We see evidence of it on the news every night. Bush claiming God is backing his war, terrorism in God's name, clergy raping children and the list goes on, and on, and on.....

 

I quite agree... Religion generally does have some bad reputations, but I don't think I'd let that be a part of me contemplating on whether or not I'd believe in or not a religion. This is probably toward ughaibu, but I thought I'd add some cents also. :hihi:

 

Personally, I never knew Bush said that God is backing up his war. . .one more reason for me to dislike Bush. (When I'm not angered at something religious, I can agree on the religious side...) I almost got over him after I heard that Bush might've said that an atheist student is not a true American or whatever ; I'm glad next year is his last year... Terrorism, I think is mostly people teaching people too strictly. . .or it could simply be the teachings of that religion (Islam, it is ?), and maybe that religion is just rather bad (so I've heard)... But there are different gods ; theirs isn't yours... And at clergy raping children ?, what has that to do with any religion. . .it's quite simply actions of people with sickened and messed up minds, it doesn't matter whether they'er clergy or worked for WalMart, or religious or atheist, that's just messed up people... But I guess not all see it like that.

[Boerseun]

Noah was supposedly a Jew. Was he intentionally cruel when he named his one son very unkosherly "Ham"? :D

[silverslith]

Heard about that wave in Alaska...

 

In reality though, is there any way we could outrun a meteoric-tsunami ? I don't think building an ark and hoping we can ride it would get us far for such. (Going off topic...)

Move to high altitude inland. Antarctica and Greenland are scary. Some say Ice Tsunami could be 1 km high at landfall. Icequakes increasing at exponential rates. Ground under moving ice km+ thick heats to over 1200C in a few meters movement. Large lake and river systems being discovered under the Ice sheets, releasing flows of up to the 1000 niagara falls that carved the labyrinth out of solid rock 130000 years ago. You do the math.

[tmaromine]

I wouldn't know where to start mathematically. =|

 

I'll take that as a no. :shrug:

[silverslith]

I wouldn't know where to start mathematically. =|

 

I'll take that as a no. :phones:

 

Actually if you are in a low flat (eg desert like) region the flood from a mega tsunami could be survived in a boat. Provided it doesn't smash you into anything. If you weren't on anything that floats survival chance would be close to zero.

If you can get your boat into deep ocean before it arrives then you'll barely notice it go by. Except for vicious tidal currents appearing. Not helpful unless you are already there cause they will travel at 1000+kmph