Changing something according to will

[MclareN]

Pretty sure this is the right forum, but anyway I read an interesting topic on a board the other day:

 

Each individual has his or her own subjective universe in which changes can be made according to will. In each individual's subjective universe lies one's perceptions of the world, and for each individual this is a reality. Carl Jung said that “the meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances; if there is any reaction, both are transformed.” Kind of obscure? Yes. Each individual can shape another's subjective universe through many explained and unexplained processes, but is it possible for an individual's will to not only change his or her subjective universe but also the objective universe? Some might call this the "power of prayer" or something along the lines of "magic."

 

Does the human brain hold the capacity to change things that are outside of its own realm? If so, how would you explain this?

 

What are your thoughts on this?

[Queso]

Intent changes everything, man.

[freeztar]

I've never seen any scientific proof to back it.

Of course, given quantum mechanics, you could postulate that the mind interacts with the possible outcomes, but it is still not free to change them to will.

 

At the same time, I think that science can only explain so much. The marvels of the world and beyond are inspirations to the mind. Who knows its expanse?

 

*I think the Jung example illustrates energy fields, rather than the mind.

[HydrogenBond]

I am not sure if this is what you meant but innovation can change the objective universe. For example, relativity starting within Einstein. After it was published science changed forever.

 

Jung also spoke of synchronicity, or meaningful cooincidences, where inner subjective states seems to synchronize with external events. It may be a cooincidence, but nevertheless happens in a of meaningful way.

 

A recent possible example of synchronicity, that comes to mind, was a global warming expedition to the north pole to measure the ice. It had to be postponed due to unprecidented cold. If one interpretted this in terms of synchronicity, their unconscious mind had doubt about global warming, even though their conscious mind believed stongly. This obsession created a conflict. As such, the unconscious would stage an event to get its point across. It didn't make it cold, rather it would make the ego chose a bad time to go. There is a good chance that many of these scientists lost some of their obsession.

[maikeru]

Pretty sure this is the right forum, but anyway I read an interesting topic on a board the other day:

 

 

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Are you talking about something almost along the lines of psi, which is not scientifically proven?

 

Psi (parapsychology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[HappytheStripper]

Each individual has his or her own subjective universe in which changes can be made according to will. In each individual's subjective universe lies one's perceptions of the world, and for each individual this is a reality. Carl Jung said that “the meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances; if there is any reaction, both are transformed.” Kind of obscure? Yes. Each individual can shape another's subjective universe through many explained and unexplained processes, but is it possible for an individual's will to not only change his or her subjective universe but also the objective universe? Some might call this the "power of prayer" or something along the lines of "magic."

 

Does the human brain hold the capacity to change things that are outside of its own realm? If so, how would you explain this?

 

EMF - definilty .. Synchronicty and Co-incidence - definilty!! When time and space events come together .. with help of the physical law of attraction ..

 

James Redfeild describes these time and space events in his book - The Celestine Prophecy

 

CelestineVision.com

 

The capacity to change that which is external is simple .. take a look in a mirror .. what do you see .. ?? When you let me know what you see.. I will explain that which I think in regards to your question..

 

Kind Regards Ashley

[Queso]

If you're looking for the answer,

the answer is Yes, you can.

I can. Can you?

 

Some things are unchangable, but I've found sometimes I can completely manipulate some aspects of my environment by will.

 

It's really easy to do when you're dreaming.

When you're awake, you have to be a magician

and once you believe you are

you can do a lot of weird things.

 

These weird things are completely psychological.

This magic is magick.

Meaning:

 

The magick that I speak of is a projection of the psyche,

a divine incorporation

manipulated entirely by Will,

and the many layers of our own consciousness.

 

I've even permanently changed my vision, both inside and out. :)

 

When two magicians meet, O

my things are so beautiful.

 

This derives from Tao.

[Boerseun]

If you're looking for the answer,

the answer is Yes, you can.

I can. Can you?

 

Some things are unchangable, but I've found sometimes I can completely manipulate some aspects of my environment by will.

 

It's really easy to do when you're dreaming.

When you're awake, you have to be a magician

and once you believe you are

you can do a lot of weird things.

 

These weird things are completely psychological.

This magic is magick.

Meaning:

 

The magick that I speak of is a projection of the psyche,

a divine incorporation

manipulated entirely by Will,

and the many layers of our own consciousness.

 

I've even permanently changed my vision, both inside and out. :hihi:

 

When two magicians meet, O

my things are so beautiful.

 

This derives from Tao.

Orb. Nothing personal, dude. But this post made absolutely zero sense.

 

Coming back to the topic at hand:

Carl Jung said that “the meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances; if there is any reaction, both are transformed.” Kind of obscure? Yes. Each individual can shape another's subjective universe through many explained and unexplained processes, but is it possible for an individual's will to not only change his or her subjective universe but also the objective universe?

I think what Jung alluded to has nothing to do with telekinesis. If two people meet, they are both changed for life simply because they have both made an impression on the other guy's brain which wouldn't have been there had they not met. I can have a chat with you and maybe change your philosophy on life, thereby making a wholesale change on you. Conversely, you could do the same to me. Humans are, after all, very adaptable creatures and thrive on change and varying stimuli.

 

Changing my objective universe through will is very possible. If I see a can of Coke in my fridge and I decide to take it out and put it upside-down on my roof, I have imposed my will on it and I've changed my objective universe. It does take some elbow grease, unfortunately. I had to go get the ladder out the garage. The possibility of imposing your will on your objective universe cuts to the core of determinism. But it is far, far removed from telekinesis, which has been completely and utterly proved to be horsecrap.

[Queso]

This thread's called Changing something according to will, correct?

 

So let me rephrase myself for Boerseun 'cause he didn't get it.

 

Yes, it is possible to change "something" with will.

 

This is Magick

because it is a projection of the psyche.

 

Magick, in the broadest sense, is any act designed to cause intentional change. Magick is not capable of producing "miracles" or violating the physical laws of the universe (e.g., it cannot cause a solar eclipse), although "it is theoretically possible to cause in any object any change of which that object is capable by nature".

[billg]

So presumably by "Magick" you mean action? I mean, we all know we can potentially change things in ways in which they can change if we will it, via action. If I want my hair-product to fall on the floor, assuming it can, then I can will it, flick it off my desk, and there you go. Why call it magick? Or is magick something different?

[Queso]

So presumably by "Magick" you mean action? I mean, we all know we can potentially change things in ways in which they can change if we will it, via action. If I want my hair-product to fall on the floor, assuming it can, then I can will it, flick it off my desk, and there you go. Why call it magick? Or is magick something different?

 

If you want to call that magick, you can, but IMO there's nothing very magickal about it.

 

If you want to change the position of the hair spray, you must will yourself to do so. (Flicking it)

 

If you want to change the shape of the hair spray, you must also will yourself to do so. (Believing it is something else. Make believe)

If you succeed in changing the shape of the hair spray,

 

no one else will ever know

 

because what you just did was a projection of the psyche.

 

My life consists of many hallucinated sounds. My mind is a great music synthesizing machine. My mind incorporates my audible visions into my reality, sometimes involuntarily.

These sounds I hear in my mind are projected by my mind into what appears to be the space around me,

thus, magick occurs.

 

You may find hallucinations a nuissence, but I've found great wisdom in the singing iceplant, and the whispering fire.

 

Do you understand?

[Queso]

It is simply make believing, with creativity.

 

[billg]

If you want to call that magick, you can, but IMO there's nothing very magickal about it.

 

If you want to change the position of the hair spray, you must will yourself to do so. (Flicking it)

 

If you want to change the shape of the hair spray, you must also will yourself to do so. (Believing it is something else. Make believe)

If you succeed in changing the shape of the hair spray,

 

no one else will ever know

 

because what you just did was a projection of the psyche.

 

My life consists of many hallucinated sounds. My mind is a great music synthesizing machine. My mind incorporates my audible visions into my reality, sometimes involuntarily.

These sounds I hear in my mind are projected by my mind into what appears to be the space around me,

thus, magick occurs.

 

You may find hallucinations a nuissence, but I've found great wisdom in the singing iceplant, and the whispering fire.

 

Do you understand?

 

So magick is any hallucination or act of imagination? If that's the case, then when you say it's possible to change "something" you mean it's possible to have subjective experience that is not neccessarily related to any physical stimulus and does not neccessarily correspond to a physical reality. That's fine, but you're only changing your internal state. Personally I think the ability to change a physical system permanently, purposefully, and in a way that other people can percieve via our actions is a far more powerful and interesting feat than an act of imagination

[Queso]

The topic here is Will.

 

Whether it's internal will, or a collective will.

 

The answer is yes.

[Boerseun]

Unfortunately, to date, the only way of changing the position of anything, is through following the Laws of Physiks.

[Queso]

Obviously!

 

You need the will to follow thru with an action, and that will can be changed.

 

With will, you can change how you think about things, thus willing yourself to change your own will.

 

You can will yourself to tell someone to shut up and stop provoking you, and you can also will yourself to not say anything, keep your thoughts to yourself, and think about more positive things.

 

There's no such thing as physiks, boerseun's just making fun of me.

 

 

Magic is not magick. Magick is not magic.

 

Some of us were born with the ability to project our minds into the space around us. There's nothing physicless about it. It is completely psychological, and fun IMO.

[kalexia]

Pretty sure this is the right forum, but anyway I read an interesting topic on a board the other day:

 

 

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

You could say that everything shapes another's Universe, as every single thing we do, see, say, etc has some kind of effect in the Universe-big or small. The whole theory that there may be 'alternate Universes' out there consisting of all possible decisions that one can make in life seems unbelievable, since there must be an infinite amount of ways a persons life can be different in minute ways. Surely the objective Universe is made of of millions of subjective Universes, therefore each person's own individual realm must affect the Universe as a whole?