dad2bkmj

dont even get me started on Al Gore, one of my clients actually just had a stanford uni. honor his work for the original internet, i give him a hard time about Al Gore inventing the internet, its a sore spot for him.

i thank you for your input, and i respect you not wanting to go into a theology discussion. thanks again, i will keep watching the tread, and if i feel i can add to the discussion i will.

i'm not a scientist, i work in the heating and air business, my problem is i get a $50,000 fine if i let 5 lbs. of refrigerant out, but from what i understand everytime they launch the shuttle the stuff they cool the liq. o2 is dumped into the air, which amounts to hundreds of pounds of stuff that is not good for the atmosphere, or worse then if everybody in the country went outside and let go of a whole can of hairspray at the same time. no, i don't think i sould dump refrigerant in the air, but i think the goverment shuold use that money to clean up its own act, being its one of the largest poluters in the world.

i feel evolution is just a living thing changing to fit changes in its enviroment. changes in tempature, introduction of new predators, things of the sort. its evolve or go exstinked.

thank you for listening to it. now, just so that you know, i'm not a physicist but i am a christian, i also believe in all the scientific discoveries that have been made. which of course is confusing to say the least. i'm not on that just takes what the bible sayes, so i started doing research on the internet, and come across that. it fit alot of what i was thinking. you know, bits and pieces of science i've made connections to the bible in my mind. the big bang for instance, god created the heavens and the earth and said let there be light, what do you get with a big bang but light and the heavens and the earth. god filled the sea with life, and filled the sky with birds, science sayes life started in the waters, some people think the dinosours are related to modern birds. science sayes the land started as a supercontanent, god colleced the water into one place and made land, which to me sounds like one land mass. things like that. but i would really like to know what you thought about dr. ross's findings. again thank you for listening to it.

ok tormod no religon. there is no satan. it just human nature to put yourself first no matter who it hurts. isnt what i believe, but in the absent of religion its the only logical answer i can think of. i would ask that you go to http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/audio/newevidence.htm to see what i actually believe, it includes the science of it.

i recommend going to http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/audio/newevidence.htm, you can listen to it or get a printable verson. it's a long read but i found it very informitive.

well this thread is about satan, which is a biblical being, i actually like the science, but i like to apply it to the bible as well. the bible may not say the science verson of things but you have to thinkabout the fact that god was speaking to man thousands of years ago, before they knew about all the science. so he but it in words they could understand. the bible always refers to man as children, so you put things in words a child will understand, just like we do with our children.

okay, okay 3.8 billon years give or take a billon years, lol. no god and satan are not one in the same being. the god you referd to yes was a vengful one, but that was the old testament, the old covenant, then he did the nicest thing he could have ever done for us, which was give is son to save our souls. which is proficied in the old testament would be done. as far as freewill why do think there is so much evil in the world, because man has the freewill to do it. god is all powerfull, all knowing, and everywhere, satan on the other hand is not all powerfull, all knowing, nor everywhere, satan is powerfull dont get me wrong, but not all powerfull. satan can only make someone do something if they are posesed by one of his demons, other than that, he can only manipulate, or tempt us, or trap us into doing something against god, it's we that have to be strong to not fall for his tricks. you also, have to remember that satan cant be everywhere, but he has leigons of angels, demons, and people to do his bidding and dirty work.

high winds, high altitude, and high speed are all realitive. you have to know what the normal wind speed is, the average altitude, and average speeds are.

i think you sould read the transcript of a seminal presentation by Dr. Hugh Ross in south barrington, Illinois, April 16, 1994, called "Where did the universe come from? New scientific evidence for the existence of God". it's a long read but i think it's got some things you can use for your proof and reasoning for divine creation. which by the way when you finish it i would like to read it if posable.

this may be an unpoupular reply, but here it goes, i believe in the bible, it is an instruction book for life, and the key to the afterlife. you do have to take the bible in the context it was origanally writen in, the english verson does have some words taken in the wrong context, not the wrong word just context. also take the whole bible in cotext, not just parts. i'm a christian that believes alot of us use the bible for an agenda to fit thier needs, not gods. you see you can take a verse from the bible and twist it to fit your purpose, so i say take the whole thing in cotext.

your right about somepeople not agreeing with science about the age of the earth, but i'm not one of them. i beleave scince now puts the earth at about 3.8 billon years. i do think the bible has some mistranslations in it, like in genisus, when it refers to creation(the english version). you see when they translated it into english, which has about 400,000 nouns to describe things, from hebrew, which is one of the poorest with nouns, they took the wrong meaning of some words. take the hebrew word yom, which translates to "day long" has more than one meaning, it can mean 12 hours, 24 hours, or a long period of time. but if you look at the bible the fisrt 6 days(time periods) have an evening and a morning, but the seventh does not which tells me we are still in the seventh day. also, the words for evening and morning also mean beginning and ending. now look at the science, the fossil record if you will, we have animals coming into exsistence, then going exstinked, and another coming into exsistence at a diffent time with no link to the one before, then man comes along and no more new animals have come into exsistence since. it saies in genisus god created until he made eve then he stopped, and rested. as far as the plan i think thats another misconception, it sayes your deeds will be recorded in the book of life, and you will have to answer for them on judgement day, not that your life is planned out for you. many people also believe that humans were given freewill but angels were not, thats not the case either, angels do have freewill just like man, the differnce is that man can fall from grace, an repint and receives god grace again, angels can not. the reason for free will is so we have the choice to love god, which makes it true love of our own freewill. if god just wanted everyone to love him reguardless, he could have just created robots that were programed to love him, but they would just follow thier program, and that would not be true love. but thats what i think about creation, why satan was able to defy god, and why god gave us freewill.

about the old testament, many people believe it was writen or changed after Jesus died, but thats not the case. i believe it was in the 1960's or 70's that a young sheperd boy found the clay pots, in a cave, that contained what we call the dead sea scrolls. the scrolls are the books of the old testament, and have been dated to have been writen well before Jesus was even born. the translation of the scrolls match the modern day version of the old testament.

when i said knowing is a fact i meant that it is proven to be true, you can believe in something that may not be true.

as far as not having sin, sin as defined in websters is a transgression of a religious or moral law. you stated that your religion would teach morals, so if you break a moral law you sin by definition. no you didn't talk about god or the devil, but god's book was good enough to parafrase the rules from.

any one else getting 4 e-mails for the same new post

believing is an idea, knowing is a fact, faith is belief in the absence of proof.

time is a diminsion. which we are confined to only the forword moving half of a time line. which will end in death. i can walk home but thats it, once its done thats it, i cant get the time back.

i don't know but the rules and what happens if we fail sounds like something i've heard before. thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet thy nebiors wife....., all men are sinners, to sin is human, all men fall short of the grace of god....

yes four kids boy, girl, girl, boy ranging from 13 years to 19 months. have a quest.? how do you add the little quote at the bottom of your replies

you should read the transcript of Dr. Hugh Ross's seminar called "where did the universe come from? new scientific evidence for the existence of god" you see i am a christian. i beleive god created everything acording to his plan and the seminar gives some compeling facts to that point. the problem with creationism is it's based on creation taking 6 days or 24 hour periods. but it is a mistranslation of the hebrew language. to quote Dr. ross "the english language is the largest vocabulary language that man has ever invented. there are 4,000,000 nouns in the english language. the hebrew language by contrast is one of the most noun poor languages that man has invented. so the english reader has a difficult time appreciating that in the hebrew old testament, there are very few words to describe periods of time. " so the word that was translated into english was yom, "for day long", but it can mean 12 hours, 24 hours, or a long time period. look at genesis to see what it really means. the first 6 days(time periods) have a morning and night. the seventh does not so the seventh day is still going on. and by the way the hebrew words for morning and night also mean begining and ending.

it sayes in the bible that satan was an anointed chairub in the garden of eden. there to watch over man. but he showed the evil with in himself, and timpted man, so he and other angels were cast out of eden, just as man was. the bible also sayes that he rules the earth, jesus refers to him as the prince of the world.

names dave, and i'm operations manager for a heating and air conditioning co.

you should go to Perry Marshall's website and read where did the universe come from? its a long read but very informative. and it uses real sceince to prove the point:)