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Sodium Auride?


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#18 Boerseun

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 07:58 AM

I was wrong, and stand corrected!

According to Wiki,

Although gold is a noble metal, it can form many compounds, gold(III) chloride (AuCl3) and chlorauric acid (HAuCl4) being the most common. Gold compounds can be gold(I) (aurous, univalent, +1), gold(II) (organometallic compounds such as [Au(CH2)2P(C6H5)2]2Cl2 contain divalent gold, +2) or gold(III) (auric, trivalent, +3). Gold also can under extreme conditions form a +5 and even a +7 state with fluorine (gold pentafluoride, AuF5 and the extremely rare gold heptafluoride, AuF7), as well as a -1 state. Such compounds containing the Au- anion are called aurides and include caesium auride, CsAu, rubidium auride, RbAu, and tetramethylammonium auride, (CH3)4N+ Au-.

Gold also forms:

* The AuCl4- ion after dissolving in aqua regia
* Gold halides (F,Cl,Br,I)
* Gold chalcogenides (O, S, Se,Te)
* Gold cyanides, with the Au(CN)2– ion, such as potassium gold cyanide KAu(CN)2
* Gold cluster compounds
* Gold hydrazide: an olive-green powder, AuN2H3, one of several explosive compounds known archaically as aurum fulminans

Some gold compounds are notable for forming what's known as the aurophilic bond, a weak interaction comparable in strength to the hydrogen bond.
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#19 mir

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 10:47 AM

and even a +7 state with fluorine (gold pentafluoride, AuF5 and the extremely rare gold heptafluoride, AuF7), as well as a -1 state. Such compounds containing the Au- anion are called aurides and include caesium auride, CsAu, rubidium auride, RbAu, and tetramethylammonium auride, (CH3)4N+ Au-


Thats it than? Gold may form a compound with Gold in -1 state!
I guess this salt would be very unstable. The large and diffuse gold-anion and the (relative) little sodium cation, may not be a very good ion-pair. Since ion-diameter is very important for stable salts to form.

#20 YYYY

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 06:25 AM

From
http://www.levity.co.../nelson2_2.html

(6) David Hudson/ORMEs......

The metallic gold is, therefore, produced from a naturally-occurring ore which, when subjected to conventional assaying, does not test positive for gold.


So it seems that gold can exist in certain forms and not be detected.
Probably so for many other elements as well.

#21 mir

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 03:30 PM

Of course it is like this. You cant breathe stone, but you can bet your shoes on that it contains oxygen.

Are you saying that "gold is where you don't find it"? :(

There is a lot of (beautiful) gold-ores in the mineral-world. You cant detect the gold before you have dissolved the ore and reduced the gold. But often is the ores followed by metallic gold.

Iron exists as an oxide, and you reduce the iron-ore to crude iron with carbon monoxide gas from coal. Until you have done this, most iron ores does not share all of the irons properties (magnetite though is magnetic). Mercury exists also as oxides and sulfides. But you may also find mercury in pure form, as liquid droplets.

#22 ronthepon

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 04:25 AM

And gold does form coordinate complexes which completely alter the properties of the compounds.

#23 HydrogenBond

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 12:12 PM

Investigations on the System Sodium-Gold
R. ALQASMI and J.J. EGAN
Coulometric titrations were performed on Na-Au alloys at 775°C using galvanic cells employing CaF2. solid electrolytes. Results are given on the thermodynamics of mixing for the system as well as information on the phase diagram, including the range of homogeneity of the intermetallic compound NaAu2. The type and degree of disorder in the compound NaAu2 are also presented and discussed.


I didn't read the article but it wil form an amalgom.

#24 SPIN

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 05:09 PM

Yes, sodium auride is produced. !!!

 

Rgds from Mexico.



#25 exchemist

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 06:22 AM

Yes, sodium auride is produced. !!!

 

Rgds from Mexico.

Can you provide a reference?

 

All I can find is CaAu and RbAu. Ca and Rb are more electropositive than Na, so one would expct these compounds to be formed more readily than NaAu. 



#26 SPIN

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 01:39 PM

Friend, for the method I am using you must analyze it from the point of view of the electronic configuration of sodium compared to Calcium. There are several proposed methods to obtain NaAu. Honestly, in some more I have to obtain NaAu, the method I use must allow me to obtain it. Regards,



#27 SPIN

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 01:51 PM

Hello : attached please find information respecto NaAu, this information provide from Posted 14 November 2006 - 12:25 PM

From
http://www.levity.co.../nelson2_2.html

(6) David Hudson/ORMEs......

The metallic gold is, therefore, produced from a naturally-occurring ore which, when subjected to conventional assaying, does not test positive for gold.


So it seems that gold can exist in certain forms and not be detected.
Probably so for many other elements as well.

        : (6) David Hudson/ORMEs

In the 1980s, David Hudson discovered the existence of ORMEs (Orbitally Rearranged Monoatomic Elements) which are virtually undetectable by conventional means (except for a distinguishing IR doublet located between about 1400 and 1600 cm-1) because they lack a d-orbital electron. Hudson and associates developed a method to recover ORMEs and convert them into their metallic forms. While it is not a transmutation of one element into another (but rather, the conversion of an allotrope into the common visible form of the elements), the extraction and conversion of ORMEs to metal may explain the claims of some other experimentors. Certain ores, particularly sodic and calcidic plagioclase, contain large amounts of ORMEs which can be extracted by Hudson's process, as described in his Australian patent for "Non-Metallic, Monoatomic Forms of Transitional Elements" (1989):

300 gr of dried material assayed by conventional techniques to show no gold present, ground to less than 200 mesh, is placed in a 1-gallon vessel, fitted with electrodes, with 120 gr NaCl, 10 gr KBr, and 2 liters of tap water.

The anode consists of a pair of 3/8" x 12" carbon welding rods wrapped together with No.10 copper wire. The cathode consists of 1-5/8" ID x 14" glass tube with a medium porosity glass frit with a 1" x 14" x 1/16" stainless steel strip inside in a solution of 36 gr/liter NaCl (approx. 500 ml). Both electrodes are placed into the sample vessel and supported by clamps extending about 5" into the sample solution.

The sample is placed on a roller table at approx. 10 rpm. The electrodes are connected to a (120 V) power supply in conjunction with a 2-3 amp 400-600 PIV rectifier. A 100 W light bulb and the electrodes are hooked in series. The rectifier load is connected to the anode since the rectifier filters out all negative voltage and only passes positive voltage.

The sample is kept under load for a period of 6-1/2 hours. The final pH is in the range of 3-6.5. The voltage across the electrode is 5 volts. After disconnecting the load, the sample as allowed to settle and the solution over the settled out material was removed by decantation...

800 ml of the sample was placed in a 1000 ml beaker and 20 ml concentrated sulfuric acid was added to the solution. With stirring, the solution was boiled down slowly on a hotplate until the solution was just dry (not baked). The just dry salt contains sodium gold chloride. The just dry salt was taken up in 400 ml deionized water and again boiled down to the just dry condition. There should be no discoloration at this point, i.e., a clear solution is formed.

The just dry salt was then taken up in 400 ml 6M HCl, and thereafter boiled down to the just dry condition. The dilution and boiling down step was repeated four times, alternating with a deionized water and a 6M HCl wash, with the sequence controlled to that the last washing was with 6M HCl. The purpose is to remove all traces of hypochlorite oxidant.

The just dry salts are taken up in 400 ml anhydrous ethanol and stirred for approximately 10 minutes. This step is to dissolve the gold chloride salt, to remove the sodium chloride. After stirring, the slurry was filtered through #42 paper on a Buchner funnel.

5 ml of concentrated sulfuric acid was slowly added to the filtrate, mixed, and the filtrate was then allowed to sit for approximately 1 hour. The filtrate was filtered through #42 paper on a Buchner funnel, hand then passed through a filter of 0.5 micron Teflon. The sulfuric acid precipitates out any calcium. Filtration removes the precipitant and a light yellow filtrate is recovered, with all traces of calcium sulfate removed.

The light yellow solution was again boiled down to just dry, taking care to avoid any charring. At this point there should be no further evaporation of ethanol and the just dry residue should be free of color. The residue should have a sweet smell similar to burnt sugar. The occurrence of the sweet smell indicates the end point of the boil-down.

The just dry residue is taken up in 600 ml deionized water to provide a water-soluble gold form which is the gold auride. If desired, the G-ORME can be recovered at this stage or converted into metallic gold. For gold recovery, the solution is put into a 1000 ml beaker and an electrolysis unit was set up... The anode is a gold electrode, 2 cmin size, upon which gold solution will plate out. The cathode comprises a 6.8 cm2 platinum electrode contined in a Nafion 117 chamber... Inside the Nafion chamber is 200 ml of electrolyte solution containing 5 ml sulfuric acid per 600 ml of electrolyte solution. It is important to keep the Nafion chamber wet at all times. The potential was measured across the electrodes and then an additional -2.2 volts potential was applied and maintained for a period of 2 hours.

After the two hours, the potential was raised to 3.0 volts and maintained for approximately 18 hours. Bubbles formed on both the gold and platinum electodes. A black material formed on the gold electrode after 3-4 hours. The gold electrode was removed from solution while voltage was still being applied. The electrode was dried in a vacuum oven overnight at 115o C. The electrode was weighed before and after the plating to determine the amount of gold collected.

The metallic gold is, therefore, produced from a naturally-occurring ore which, when subjected to conventional assaying, does not test positive for gold.

 

The ORMEs are produced from sodium gold chloride, which is reduced to sodium auride:

Continued aquation results in dissociation of the gold atom from the sodium and the eventual formation of a protonated auride of gold as a grey precipitate. Subsequent annealing produces the Gold-ORME. The G-ORME has an electron arrangement whereby it acquires d-orbital hole or holes which share energy with an electron or electrons. This pairing occurs under the influence of a magnetic field external to the field of the electron.

G-ORMEs are stable [as] demonstrated by unique thermal and chemical properties. The white salt-like material that is formed when G-ORMES are treated with fuming HClO4 or fuming H2SO4 are dissimilar from the transition (T) metal or its salts. The G-ORME will not react with cyanide, will not be dissolved by aqua regia, and will not wet or amalgamate with mercury... The G-ORMEs remain as a powder at 1200oC...

G-ORMEs can be reconverted to metallic gold from which they were formed. This reconversion is accomplished by an oxidative rearangement which removes all paired valence electrons together with their vacancy pair electrons, with a subsequent refilling of the d and s orbitals with unpaired electrons until the proper configuration is reached for the T-metal.

This oxidative rearrangement is effected by subjecting the G-ORME to a large negative potential in the presence of an electron-donating element, such as carbon, thus forming a metallic element-carbon chemical bond. For that metal-carbon bond to occur the carbon must provide for the horizontal removal of the d orbital vacancy of the ORME. The carbon acts as a chemical fulcrum. When the element-carbon bond is reduced by way of further decreasing the potential, the carbon receives a reducing electron and subsequently vertically inserts that reducing electron below the s orbitals of the element, thus forming metallic gold.

The above description for the preparation of G-ORME from commercially available metallic gold is applicable equally for the preparation of the remaining ORMEs, except for the specific potential energy required and the use of nascent nitrogen rather than carbon to convert the other ORMEs to their constituent metallic forms. The specific energies range between -1.8 V and -2.5 V depending on the particular element. Alternatively this arrangement can be achieved chemically by reacting NO gas with the T-metal ORMEs other than gold. Nitric oxide is unique in that it possesses the necessary chemical potential as well as the single unpaired electron.



#28 exchemist

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 03:28 PM

Hello : attached please find information respecto NaAu, this information provide from Posted 14 November 2006 - 12:25 PM

From
http://www.levity.co.../nelson2_2.html

(6) David Hudson/ORMEs......

The metallic gold is, therefore, produced from a naturally-occurring ore which, when subjected to conventional assaying, does not test positive for gold.


So it seems that gold can exist in certain forms and not be detected.
Probably so for many other elements as well.

        : (6) David Hudson/ORMEs

In the 1980s, David Hudson discovered the existence of ORMEs (Orbitally Rearranged Monoatomic Elements) which are virtually undetectable by conventional means (except for a distinguishing IR doublet located between about 1400 and 1600 cm-1) because they lack a d-orbital electron. Hudson and associates developed a method to recover ORMEs and convert them into their metallic forms. While it is not a transmutation of one element into another (but rather, the conversion of an allotrope into the common visible form of the elements), the extraction and conversion of ORMEs to metal may explain the claims of some other experimentors. Certain ores, particularly sodic and calcidic plagioclase, contain large amounts of ORMEs which can be extracted by Hudson's process, as described in his Australian patent for "Non-Metallic, Monoatomic Forms of Transitional Elements" (1989):

300 gr of dried material assayed by conventional techniques to show no gold present, ground to less than 200 mesh, is placed in a 1-gallon vessel, fitted with electrodes, with 120 gr NaCl, 10 gr KBr, and 2 liters of tap water.

The anode consists of a pair of 3/8" x 12" carbon welding rods wrapped together with No.10 copper wire. The cathode consists of 1-5/8" ID x 14" glass tube with a medium porosity glass frit with a 1" x 14" x 1/16" stainless steel strip inside in a solution of 36 gr/liter NaCl (approx. 500 ml). Both electrodes are placed into the sample vessel and supported by clamps extending about 5" into the sample solution.

The sample is placed on a roller table at approx. 10 rpm. The electrodes are connected to a (120 V) power supply in conjunction with a 2-3 amp 400-600 PIV rectifier. A 100 W light bulb and the electrodes are hooked in series. The rectifier load is connected to the anode since the rectifier filters out all negative voltage and only passes positive voltage.

The sample is kept under load for a period of 6-1/2 hours. The final pH is in the range of 3-6.5. The voltage across the electrode is 5 volts. After disconnecting the load, the sample as allowed to settle and the solution over the settled out material was removed by decantation...

800 ml of the sample was placed in a 1000 ml beaker and 20 ml concentrated sulfuric acid was added to the solution. With stirring, the solution was boiled down slowly on a hotplate until the solution was just dry (not baked). The just dry salt contains sodium gold chloride. The just dry salt was taken up in 400 ml deionized water and again boiled down to the just dry condition. There should be no discoloration at this point, i.e., a clear solution is formed.

The just dry salt was then taken up in 400 ml 6M HCl, and thereafter boiled down to the just dry condition. The dilution and boiling down step was repeated four times, alternating with a deionized water and a 6M HCl wash, with the sequence controlled to that the last washing was with 6M HCl. The purpose is to remove all traces of hypochlorite oxidant.

The just dry salts are taken up in 400 ml anhydrous ethanol and stirred for approximately 10 minutes. This step is to dissolve the gold chloride salt, to remove the sodium chloride. After stirring, the slurry was filtered through #42 paper on a Buchner funnel.

5 ml of concentrated sulfuric acid was slowly added to the filtrate, mixed, and the filtrate was then allowed to sit for approximately 1 hour. The filtrate was filtered through #42 paper on a Buchner funnel, hand then passed through a filter of 0.5 micron Teflon. The sulfuric acid precipitates out any calcium. Filtration removes the precipitant and a light yellow filtrate is recovered, with all traces of calcium sulfate removed.

The light yellow solution was again boiled down to just dry, taking care to avoid any charring. At this point there should be no further evaporation of ethanol and the just dry residue should be free of color. The residue should have a sweet smell similar to burnt sugar. The occurrence of the sweet smell indicates the end point of the boil-down.

The just dry residue is taken up in 600 ml deionized water to provide a water-soluble gold form which is the gold auride. If desired, the G-ORME can be recovered at this stage or converted into metallic gold. For gold recovery, the solution is put into a 1000 ml beaker and an electrolysis unit was set up... The anode is a gold electrode, 2 cmin size, upon which gold solution will plate out. The cathode comprises a 6.8 cm2 platinum electrode contined in a Nafion 117 chamber... Inside the Nafion chamber is 200 ml of electrolyte solution containing 5 ml sulfuric acid per 600 ml of electrolyte solution. It is important to keep the Nafion chamber wet at all times. The potential was measured across the electrodes and then an additional -2.2 volts potential was applied and maintained for a period of 2 hours.

After the two hours, the potential was raised to 3.0 volts and maintained for approximately 18 hours. Bubbles formed on both the gold and platinum electodes. A black material formed on the gold electrode after 3-4 hours. The gold electrode was removed from solution while voltage was still being applied. The electrode was dried in a vacuum oven overnight at 115o C. The electrode was weighed before and after the plating to determine the amount of gold collected.

The metallic gold is, therefore, produced from a naturally-occurring ore which, when subjected to conventional assaying, does not test positive for gold.

 

The ORMEs are produced from sodium gold chloride, which is reduced to sodium auride:

Continued aquation results in dissociation of the gold atom from the sodium and the eventual formation of a protonated auride of gold as a grey precipitate. Subsequent annealing produces the Gold-ORME. The G-ORME has an electron arrangement whereby it acquires d-orbital hole or holes which share energy with an electron or electrons. This pairing occurs under the influence of a magnetic field external to the field of the electron.

G-ORMEs are stable [as] demonstrated by unique thermal and chemical properties. The white salt-like material that is formed when G-ORMES are treated with fuming HClO4 or fuming H2SO4 are dissimilar from the transition (T) metal or its salts. The G-ORME will not react with cyanide, will not be dissolved by aqua regia, and will not wet or amalgamate with mercury... The G-ORMEs remain as a powder at 1200oC...

G-ORMEs can be reconverted to metallic gold from which they were formed. This reconversion is accomplished by an oxidative rearangement which removes all paired valence electrons together with their vacancy pair electrons, with a subsequent refilling of the d and s orbitals with unpaired electrons until the proper configuration is reached for the T-metal.

This oxidative rearrangement is effected by subjecting the G-ORME to a large negative potential in the presence of an electron-donating element, such as carbon, thus forming a metallic element-carbon chemical bond. For that metal-carbon bond to occur the carbon must provide for the horizontal removal of the d orbital vacancy of the ORME. The carbon acts as a chemical fulcrum. When the element-carbon bond is reduced by way of further decreasing the potential, the carbon receives a reducing electron and subsequently vertically inserts that reducing electron below the s orbitals of the element, thus forming metallic gold.

The above description for the preparation of G-ORME from commercially available metallic gold is applicable equally for the preparation of the remaining ORMEs, except for the specific potential energy required and the use of nascent nitrogen rather than carbon to convert the other ORMEs to their constituent metallic forms. The specific energies range between -1.8 V and -2.5 V depending on the particular element. Alternatively this arrangement can be achieved chemically by reacting NO gas with the T-metal ORMEs other than gold. Nitric oxide is unique in that it possesses the necessary chemical potential as well as the single unpaired electron.

Ah so you're just yet another crank. I can't say I'm surprised. 

 

So what you say will most likely be hogwash.

 

More about the Arizona cotton farmer who has overturned the whole of chemistry, supposedly, here: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/ORMUS



#29 SPIN

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 06:28 PM

Hello, the distortion around the postulated by D. Hudson, is incredible but it is by the way. There is a lot of junk information regarding the ORME or ORMUS and its properties, such as the growth of the cat's tail. This is by the way friend and you know by whom or who. The chemistry of the elements in a diatomic or monoatomic state with Cooper pairs and asymmetric nuclei is generally unknown. The Russians and the Niels Borh Institute have already confirmed the existence of these elements that I already mentioned. You doubt it.??. An Australian Group, I also confirm it but I reserve your information and they have already achieved what I will achieve shortly. I advise you to study in depth the quantum physics that explains these elements and you will see that those who attack D. Hudson are wrong. And don't ignore the charlatans that promote the ORME as a remedy for everything, that junk information. I recognize that if D. Hudson suddenly talks about more or distorts his work. Another example in another area: You know the benefits of Cu, Au and Silver colloids. ??? Or is it a sham about its proven properties for centuries and whose benefits are questioned or are attacked by pharmaceuticals, do you know why? Answer why they are low cost and it is not business for transnationals. I will continue to look for people who give me comments for what I do. Regards



#30 SPIN

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 06:29 PM

I have nothing more to contribute to what you require.



#31 exchemist

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 10:18 AM

Hello, the distortion around the postulated by D. Hudson, is incredible but it is by the way. There is a lot of junk information regarding the ORME or ORMUS and its properties, such as the growth of the cat's tail. This is by the way friend and you know by whom or who. The chemistry of the elements in a diatomic or monoatomic state with Cooper pairs and asymmetric nuclei is generally unknown. The Russians and the Niels Borh Institute have already confirmed the existence of these elements that I already mentioned. You doubt it.??. An Australian Group, I also confirm it but I reserve your information and they have already achieved what I will achieve shortly. I advise you to study in depth the quantum physics that explains these elements and you will see that those who attack D. Hudson are wrong. And don't ignore the charlatans that promote the ORME as a remedy for everything, that junk information. I recognize that if D. Hudson suddenly talks about more or distorts his work. Another example in another area: You know the benefits of Cu, Au and Silver colloids. ??? Or is it a sham about its proven properties for centuries and whose benefits are questioned or are attacked by pharmaceuticals, do you know why? Answer why they are low cost and it is not business for transnationals. I will continue to look for people who give me comments for what I do. Regards

This is little better than word salad. It contains so many false and nonsensical statements that it is impossible to know where to start. It seems likely that if one were to challenge any of it, the discussion would rapidly spiral off into further nonsense at an unmanageable rate. 

 

So I will leave it. 



#32 fahrquad

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 09:25 PM

It is refreshing to see someone other than me resurrecting an old thread (13 years old) (post 24).


Edited by fahrquad, 05 December 2019 - 02:57 PM.