Why Do You Believe Superposition/entanglement Include Spacetime?

spacetime

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#1 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 06:06 AM

When something doesn't have time, gravity, and 3D ..what makes you think spacetime is involved? I'm talking about QM objects when they are unobserved and are considered waves (the unobservable). Have you considered QM might not exist within the fabric of spacetime until observation?

The Wave function wouldn't result in probabilities if it was possible to include spacetime. QM waves do not need anything from spacetime to continue existing.

Entanglement is obviously not a property of Spacetime. Spooky action at a distance can happen because QM doesn't have time like we experience and the particles are likely connected via a QM wave that could stretch to infinity if needed.

Abbe's diffraction limit is the cutoff we have been looking for. Anything smaller doesn't have to adhere to the laws of relativity. It's waves until it is observed. Observation seems to be a property of spacetime.

When a ginormous star collapses on a single point, the force is so extreme that it causes a QM bubble to scale in Spacetime that does not have to adhere to the rules of the QM/Spacetime divide. Like typical QM objects, it can't be observed but can pull in anything close to it. When two black holes merge, it's just the QM bubble getting more massive. It would then make sense for dark matter to also be overgrown QM objects.

Please tell me why you think spacetime is capable of performing quantum weirdness acts.

#2 VictorMedvil

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:23 AM

When something doesn't have time, gravity, and 3D ..what makes you think spacetime is involved? I'm talking about QM objects when they are unobserved and are considered waves (the unobservable). Have you considered QM might not exist within the fabric of spacetime until observation?

The Wave function wouldn't result in probabilities if it was possible to include spacetime. QM waves do not need anything from spacetime to continue existing.

Entanglement is obviously not a property of Spacetime. Spooky action at a distance can happen because QM doesn't have time like we experience and the particles are likely connected via a QM wave that could stretch to infinity if needed.

Abbe's diffraction limit is the cutoff we have been looking for. Anything smaller doesn't have to adhere to the laws of relativity. It's waves until it is observed. Observation seems to be a property of spacetime.

When a ginormous star collapses on a single point, the force is so extreme that it causes a QM bubble to scale in Spacetime that does not have to adhere to the rules of the QM/Spacetime divide. Like typical QM objects, it can't be observed but can pull in anything close to it. When two black holes merge, it's just the QM bubble getting more massive. It would then make sense for dark matter to also be overgrown QM objects.

Please tell me why you think spacetime is capable of performing quantum weirdness acts.

I think that Black hole's being such small condensed points display the interactions of QM at the singularity, but also around the edges of the Black hole display many of the effects of GR. The Reason I think that space-time is capable of Quantum Weirdness acts is based on things like a Casimir effect which work in the vacuum of space-time which are quantum in nature also things like Hawking Radiation point to though space-time may seem like a void there are many Quantum Mechanical effects that happen constantly. This all tends to favor the idea that Black hole's have Quantum Mechanical effects that it displays such that other quantum mechanical effects may be in operation as well such as Quantum Entanglement being that if you counter-match the superposition and spin of two black hole's that, that may cause a wormhole to be formed with the bridge being Quantum Entanglement of Singularities just as it does for smaller particles with the same state.

Edited by VictorMedvil, 06 June 2019 - 07:38 AM.

#3 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:29 AM

I'm not saying QM doesn't happen ..just that it isn't using spacetime to do it.

#4 VictorMedvil

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:39 AM

I'm not saying QM doesn't happen ..just that it isn't using spacetime to do it.

Certainly not these are effects that are happening "On" time-space not directly caused by time-space itself.

Edited by VictorMedvil, 06 June 2019 - 07:40 AM.

#5 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:46 AM

So why does everyone one want to fight me when I say QM is divided from Spacetime until observation?

#6 VictorMedvil

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:49 AM

So why does everyone one want to fight me when I say QM is divided from Spacetime until observation?

It isn't divided physically just mathematically, it would be like saying that Energy and space-time are divided Energy and space-time both directly effects each other how could they be divided, the universe by nature isn't such that it has "Divides" all things are carried out and have an effect on the other parts just as Quantum Mechanics has an effect on space-time by its effects, which doesn't make them divided but interconnected.

#7 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:53 AM

We know there is a cutoff where QM starts acting classically. I call that the divide ..maybe a poor choice of wording. We have every reason to believe a particle unobserved is losing the dimension of spacetime (when it turns into waves).

#8 VictorMedvil

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:57 AM

We know there is a cutoff where QM starts acting classically. I call that the divide ..maybe a poor choice of wording. We have every reason to believe a particle unobserved is losing the dimension of spacetime (when it turns into waves).

Thus goes into something called "The Strength of Interaction" it is not that the particle starts acting classically as much as the effect that made it work in that Quantum way is weaker on that scale then the scale it has dominance in just like on the Quantum level we don't say the gravity ceases to exist just that it is much weaker than the other forces by comparison, the same happens with other forces, Quantum effects are weaker on the macroscopic level than the Quantum level it is not that they cease to exist just are less pronounced.

Edited by VictorMedvil, 06 June 2019 - 07:59 AM.

#9 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 08:04 AM

A single particle is given partial spacetime when it is observed ..a certain number of chemically bonded atoms are never going to show quantum effects. You are kidding yourself that spacetime objects have any level of quantum effects.

Spacetime is responsible for time, gravity, and 3d ..all the things the quantum level doesn't use.

Edited by pittsburghjoe, 06 June 2019 - 08:06 AM.

#10 VictorMedvil

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 08:07 AM

A single particle is given partial spacetime when it is observed ..a certain number of chemically bonded atoms are not ever going to show quantum effects. You are kidding yourself that spacetime objects have any level of quantum effects.

Spacetime is responsible for time, gravity, and 3d ..all the things the quantum level don't use.

I do think that as I tend to believe that there is a graviton particle that carries gravity into the Quantum level, which as you say is on the level of Quantum effects where Time-space and Quantum Mechanics meet, there is an entire field of study called Quantum Gravity that attempts to solve this. The reason you don't have macroscopic level objects that act Quantum Mechanically is from the number of small objects within the object but there are things like sound waves which are macroscopic which still work almost Quantum-ally.

Edited by VictorMedvil, 06 June 2019 - 08:09 AM.

#11 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 08:08 AM

It will never be found if my theory is correct.

#12 exchemist

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 08:45 AM

So why does everyone one want to fight me when I say QM is divided from Spacetime until observation?

Because it is silly.

In science, you do not get to make s**t up.

The wave equation is written in terms of spatial coordinates and contains time-dependence. It thus describes the evolution of a QM system in space and time. That is its entire purpose.

It is therefore quite ridiculous to claim QM is "divided from" spacetime.

What QM is about is that atomic scale entities behave like waves  (in spacetime) as well as particles (in spacetime). Pretending QM effects happen outside spacetime is barking up the wrong tree completely.

Edited by exchemist, 06 June 2019 - 08:49 AM.

#13 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 08:52 AM

Spacetime as a dimension/fabric

I'm not making anything up, just pointing out the obvious. In what world are probabilities good enough? Look at the uncertainty principle, you can't know both momentum and position at the same time because the object is missing a dimension.

#14 Dubbelosix

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 08:59 AM

Ignoring the superfluous statements in the post, a question should just be kept simple, your question was, does entanglement involve spacetime? Absolutely because entanglement involves matter and spacetime is not nothing. It is all connected and interwoven like a fabric.

#15 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 09:02 AM

You don't have entanglement after observation ..which gave it spacetime.

#16 Dubbelosix

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 09:12 AM

Observation isn't a conscious thing only... two fluctuations without human observation, still entangles. Our entire bodies are a construction of entangled particles, which was the same reasoning to an explanation I have given concerning consciousness.... Scientists have been looking for the ''center'' of origin of consciousness in the brain, and they cannot find it... so what do we have left? The human brain is made of about $10^{26}$ particles, which when entangled, will ''act as one system.'' This ''one system'' is what we call consciousness, its a group of particles, cells and neurons complexly related to the point of entanglement.

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