OpenMind5 Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 OK, maybe i'm just asking for it here, but i hope there is a few opionoated people out there who would love a good fight...Ok...which happend...evolution? Or is there God? I know were I stand...and I will greatfully defind my opion...I want everyone elses! POST AWAY! OPENMINDFIVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind5 Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Ok, I will start then! LOLI know that god made the earth, and everythign on it. And i was raised to think that anything that went against that, is the devil...well...kinda...LOL...come one peopel, I wanna know what u all think!!!Is there God? Or are we forms of monkeyS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 why dont you go to http://www.harunyahya.comwatch the documentaries about evolution. then let me know how you feel. ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_Lou Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 god made the earth sounds like crazy, right? hmm, it is actually a good argument. go online and search for some NDEs (near-death experiences).everyone sees something about the god and things like that when near death...how do you explains these if god doesnt exist??? some little kids also have NDEs, they saw somthing like god and all that. they didnt know who the figure was at that time until they grew and learnt something about the god. there is also some important evidence that goes against the humans evolution, the evidence is that there is no creature in between humans and monkey. maybe in the past, but why didnt they exist now?? why there arent any monkey in the process of evolving into humans?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 there's a specific chapter in Origin of Species book by Darwin containing some difficulties that he faced in proving his theory (including the monkey-human evolution). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind5 Posted March 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 I read Charales Darwin's findings and i feel that he may have had a "ok" idea of what he was talking about....but i still and always will believe in God....I don't know any of you personally, and i don't know what u believe...I don't want to step on toes...I have experenced god...not through near death or dreams, but i have felt his prescence...God works in many ways, and not all of his ways are well known, science is one of them...........there are people who say God is not real because it goes against the laws of science, i told those ppl, that if god made th rules of science, he can break them....Evolution....it didn't happen, we are not monkeys, we are the creation of a devine God, who said "Be" and were were! His love cunquers all and all includes science. SO I say if u read Darwin...make sure u read the Bible too! Open Mind 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 yup, that's true. i think there's a sort of evolution in every part of existence, but not darwinian evolution. eg; from the simple deterministic sub-atomic particles to the very complex human beings. the wrong thing is his mechanism of evolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Originally posted by: TINNYthere's a specific chapter in Origin of Species book by Darwin containing some difficulties that he faced in proving his theory (including the monkey-human evolution). Come on, Tinny. Point out which chapter, what is wrong with it, what are the difficulties. Stop talking in codes. This thread is completely out of whack...this is not a discussion, it is a one-sided attempt at beginning a futile discussion. Why? Because our dear member OpenMind5 shows that his mind may not be so open after all - "I know this is so and that's the way it is" (I am paraphrasing). Is that the speakings of an open mind? I'm not flaming you fellows, but this is really not very relevant to this site. This is *not* the place to discuss whether there is a God or not - that belongs in the Philosophy section and has nothing to do with evolution. It is completely possible to not believe in God and still not think that everyone's a monkey. Tormod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 The title of the chapter is 'Difficulties on Theory'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 And your problems with the chapter are...? Tormod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 For those wanting to catch up, the chapter in mention is Chapter 6 in Darwin's book "On The Origin of Species". The full text of the book is available at Project Gutenberg, here:http://www.gutenberg.net/etext98/otoos11.txt Tormod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMind5 Posted March 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 Tormod...earlier you said the disscussion of God and his exsistance does not belong in this area.."Evolution" I beg to Differ...If u think there is a god...then u also belive that he was the devine intereventions or the creator, therefore he belongs everywhere because he is the beginning and the end...the alpha and the omgea...If u read the bible u will hear that...and bout my mind being open...it is...while it may not in this case is because GOD is the creator of my mind and i have no dout in that...Darwin's findings were also rejected not olny by churches at times, but later on rejected by darwin himself...beacuse he became a christain...or at least i heard this....I have read most of this book, and disagree with some of it...but what i wanna know is...where do u stand...is there a god Tormod? OP5-(as u have dubed me) ***excuse all spelling*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 Dear OP5 (I thought it was nice nick...almost like ObiWan... ) First of all: Darwin was always a Christian, although his father (also Charles) who was more of a skeptic. Darwin was baptised as an Anglican. He may not have been the most devout follower of the Christian faith but I think there is no reason to doubt that he believed in God. He did, however. not renouce his own work (why would he?). Where did you find this information? The existence of any god has nothing to do with the discussion of evolution as a theory. To maintain that there is a god is fine, but to begin to argue *whether* there is one is off topic. Do you see the distinction in that? "Does god exist" is a question for the Philosophy section. If you have followed these forums for a while you will know that I am an atheist. I can also say that I have always been an atheist. I have no belief in any superior being, and that mankind is part of a grand vision. I respect people who are religious - no matter which religion they belong to. Americans tend to see evertyhing from a Christian point of view. But we should remember that most people in this world are not Christians but belong to different faiths or have no faith. They will all have different takes on what evolution is. The topic "Evolution vs religion" is therefore very strange: it usually turns into a debate of whether one thinks there is a god or not. And so it is with this one, too: none of you have provided any problems with evolutionary theory, you have simply stated that "this must be wrong". I ask, what is wrong and why. Which theory. Which part of it. Why is it against the bible. Would it be possible that it might be correct even though the bible states something else. Could the apparent differences have something to do with the bible being a very old book and evolutionary theory quite new , relatively? And try to forget "darwinism" for a moment and think "evolution", which as many of us have pointed out is more correct. These are issues which belong in this thread. By the way: In Norway religion (read: Christian studies) is compulsory in primary and secondary school, and I also had a year at a college of education which had a compulsory course in religion. I have read the bible, yes. I have many views on the bible but they do not belong here. I have also read the apocrypha, the dead sea scrolls and commentaries on the bible. I have several Christian friends and we accept our differences. I wish I had some friends of other faiths, as well - I know too little about Islam and would like to read the Koran, and will, when time allows. So there you go. My views on evolution have been stated several times, no need to retrace those here. Perhaps I should add that there is no such thing as a truly open mind. Anyone who thinks their mind is open is wrong. Yes, that goes for myself as well. We are all children of our parents, upbringing, environment, friends, politics and interests. We may believe we are free to think and do as we like, but that is true fiction. And THAT is a topic which is WAY off topic here...but maybe someone would take it up in the Philosphy section. Tormod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 comprehensive site on islam - http://www.islamic-world.net some christians believe that life started about 4004 BC. If evolution was to occur, surely it cannot evolve till this present state in that short time span. Darwin was born a christian, destined for life with the church after graduating from cambridge in christiany studies. then became an atheist, died an atheist. i read from a book - 'Darwin-A life in science'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 I myself cannot count myself a master of the life of Charles Darwin, but I have read several books about and by him, so I would say that while he started out as a regular and not very passionate Christian, he ended up an agnostic and perhaps even an atheist in the end, yes. Here is a quote from him on that issue: "I am aware that the conclusions arrived at in this work will be denounced by some as highly irreligious; but he who denounces them is bound to show why it is more irreligious to explain the origin of man as a distinct species by descent from some lower from, through the laws of variation and natural selection, than to explain the birth of the individual through the laws of ordinary reproduction. The birth both of the species and of the individual are equally parts of that grand sequence of events, which our minds refuse to accept as the result of blind chance." (Charles Darwin, Descent of Man)Taken from http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/darwin.htm And I think that is exactly the point some of us is trying to make - in discussing evolution, a lot of people simply say "it did not happen because everything was made by God". For my part, I accept that evolution is a grand mystery which makes life on earth, and the history of our planet, extremely interesting. I do not attempt to say that I understand it or can explain all of it. Tormod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 That quote should say "lower form" and not "lower from" - error in the original quote. I think it is interesting to note that Darwin saw Man as a "higher" form than, say, apes. On this issue I think it would be fair to discuss the meaning of "higher". Tormod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 possibly God created chance, and so the creation of man by chance is also by god. but that's from our materialistic perspective, but from god's perspective, that's how God intended it to be, God did not accidently create man unexpectedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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