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The Soul


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#1 petrushkagoogol

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 11:24 PM

Is the soul a kind of psychic genetic code ?

 

Please opine.  :zip:



#2 Moontanman

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 10:16 PM

Is the soul a kind of psychic genetic code ?

 

Please opine.  :zip:

 

 

I think you would have to demonstrate a soul before we can make any judgements about it...



#3 Rade

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 05:53 PM

Is the soul a kind of psychic genetic code ?
 
Please opine.  :zip:

It is a shame your very interesting OP question was taken so far off topic.   Could you please define what you mean by 'soul'  ?

Moderation note: 20 posts from this thread have been moved to It's Self-Evident That It's Absurd That The Brain Can Give Rise To Thoughts And Feelings because they are off-topic.

#4 CraigD

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 10:01 PM

Is the soul a kind of psychic genetic code ?

I don’t think so, because I’ve seen no credible scientific evidence that the soul is made of any measurable material. A genetic code are the rules that describe how genetic material encode information – if there is not material, there can’t be a code.

I think the genetic code for the psyche is the same as the genetic code for the organism – that is, the code describing the function of the 64 3-base pair codons.. Like the rest of the organism, though, genetics doesn’t entirely determine the psyche – environment does, too. In the case of the psyche, I think environment is more influential than genes.

The soul, I think, is best considered not a physically real thing, but a metaphorical term for the key defining characteristics of something, such as “The Soul of a New Machine” referring to the ideas that went into building Data General minicomputer in the late 1970s. Because psyches are changing and influence by environment, I find apply the soul metaphor to them problematic.

#5 engcat

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 09:57 PM

Hey guys! It's lawcat, hope all is well.

Craig, how about waves, signals, frequencies? How is genetic information stored? It is not just materials, it's waves.

#6 petrushkagoogol

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 12:23 AM

The soul is a metaphysical entity. Human mental states are transient and when integrated over time define the psychic potential. Viz the soul.

#7 CraigD

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 11:38 AM

Hey guys! It's lawcat, hope all is well.

Hi Lawcat. Are you having a problem signing on with your old account? Reply or message me if you are, and we can fix the problem and move your latest posts to your old account.
 

Craig, how about waves, signals, frequencies? How is genetic information stored? It is not just materials, it's waves.

It is just materials.

Genetic information consists of genes, which in every known biological organism are stored as a sequence of 4 specific molecules, know as bases. The entire sequence of an organisms is called its genome. In genomes made of DNA, which include all plants and animals and some viruses, the 4 bases are adenine, guanine, cytosine, and thymine. Some viruses have genomes made of RNA. In RNA genomes, uracil takes the place of thymine.

No vibrating or electromagnetic waves of any frequency stores genetic information in an organism. Since the genome is simply a sequence of bases, it can be stored in many forms, such as letters written on paper or charges or magnetic fields in computer memory and storage devices, but for it to control the development and function of a living organism, it must be in its natural DNA or RNA form, inside a suitable cell, which contains many other molecules needed to “read” the genome to create other molecules from it, which is called expressing.

Complicated as gene expression is, an added complexity come from processes that “add on” to DNA, such as methylation, where methyl molecules attach to cytocine and adanine, changing the way the cell’s machinery reads the genome. The information “added on” to the genome in this way is called epigenetic.

#8 CraigD

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 11:40 AM

The soul is a metaphysical entity.

I disagree.

Though “metaphysical” is not a clearly defined term, I take it to mean “explaining the fundamental nature of reality”.

“Soul” is also not a clearly defined term. As I mentioned upthread, I take it to mean “the key defining characteristic of a thing”. Characteristics are attributes added by an observer to better understand a thing. As such, the “soul” entity doesn’t explain the fundamental nature of reality, but our understanding of it. The soul, then can be considered an epistemological entity.

I should call out that the definition of soul I’ve used here is very different than the one used by most people. The most widely used definition of the soul, I think, includes:
The soul is something God breaths into human, but not animals;
The soul is the part of a person that survives the death of their body.

This definition proposes that the soul is as real and important a physical entity as the genome. I don’t believe this kind of soul exists.
 

Human mental states are transient and when integrated over time define the psychic potential. Viz the soul.

This seems to me to agree with my definition of the soul as an epistemological entity – a description of mental states, not a cause of them, except that you use the word “vis”, which in Latin means “force”. I don’t believe the soul is a physical force, or physically real in any way.

#9 Moontanman

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 01:36 PM

The soul is a metaphysical entity. Human mental states are transient and when integrated over time define the psychic potential. Viz the soul.

 

 

There is no evidence to support the existence of a soul or anything metaphysical... before we can discus the soul in a meaningful manner some empitical evidence of the soul needs to be produced.



#10 Farming guy

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 06:08 PM

There is no evidence to support the existence of a soul or anything metaphysical... before we can discus the soul in a meaningful manner some empitical evidence of the soul needs to be produced.

Living in a physical world, how could a test for the metaphysical be devised?



#11 Moontanman

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 06:16 PM

Living in a physical world, how could a test for the metaphysical be devised?


The effects of the metaphysical on our physical should be detectable, no such effect had ever been seen!

#12 Farming guy

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 06:37 PM

I'd like to know what effects to look for?  "I want to believe"!



#13 Moontanman

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 10:30 AM

I'd like to know what effects to look for?  "I want to believe"!


Anything that is not congruent to reality, at one time lightning bolts were considered supernatural

#14 Moontanman

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 04:34 PM

I'd like to know what effects to look for?  "I want to believe"!


One thing to remember is that something (a soul) that has no effect on reality is no different than something that doesn't exist. The only way to investigate the supernatural is to find an effect that has no discernible cause and investigate it, by definition once you find a cause it is no longer supernatural...

#15 CraigD

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 05:26 PM

I'd like to know what effects to look for? "I want to believe"!

Tibetan Buddhists believe that the soul survives the death of the body and is reincarnated in a newborn child. They believe that the soul preserves some information about its previous incarnation, such as memories or preferences. So, when selecting important church officials, such as the Dali Lama, they ask children to choose from collections of objects including favorites of their dead owner. If the child shows the same memories or preferences as the dead ex-official, the testers conclude that the child is the reincarnation of the dead ex-official’s soul. (for more, see http://www.todayifou...lama-is-chosen)

Stage magician Harry Houdini and his wife Bess designed an experiment to determine if “spirits” survived death and could communicate with the living by agreeing on a secret phrase (“Rosabelle. Answer, tell, pray answer, look, tell, answer answer, tell”), that the spirit would communicate to their living partner via a séance. (for more, see http://www.sciencean...irit-chapter-4)

Science doesn’t accept these and similar test as evidence of reincarnating souls or spirits of the dead, because their results are vague, and their testing procedures biased and susceptible to fakery.

#16 Farming guy

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 06:17 PM

One thing to remember is that something (a soul) that has no effect on reality is no different than something that doesn't exist. The only way to investigate the supernatural is to find an effect that has no discernible cause and investigate it, by definition once you find a cause it is no longer supernatural...

Of course, I've never believed in the supernatural, only the natural that we don't yet understand.

 

Tibetan Buddhists believe that the soul survives the death of the body and is reincarnated in a newborn child. They believe that the soul preserves some information about its previous incarnation, such as memories or preferences. So, when selecting important church officials, such as the Dali Lama, they ask children to choose from collections of objects including favorites of their dead owner. If the child shows the same memories or preferences as the dead ex-official, the testers conclude that the child is the reincarnation of the dead ex-official’s soul. (for more, see http://www.todayifou...lama-is-chosen)

Stage magician Harry Houdini and his wife Bess designed an experiment to determine if “spirits” survived death and could communicate with the living by agreeing on a secret phrase (“Rosabelle. Answer, tell, pray answer, look, tell, answer answer, tell”), that the spirit would communicate to their living partner via a séance. (for more, see http://www.sciencean...irit-chapter-4)

Science doesn’t accept these and similar test as evidence of reincarnating souls or spirits of the dead, because their results are vague, and their testing procedures biased and susceptible to fakery.

Now this gives rise to more questions.  What about deja  voux ?  (how is it spelled?) Is there any evidence of genetic memory?  Where does instinct come from?  Is instinct encoded in our genes?  Also, can the power of suggestion effect the outcome of scientific experiments ?



#17 Moontanman

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 07:00 PM

Of course, I've never believed in the supernatural, only the natural that we don't yet understand.
 
Now this gives rise to more questions.  What about deja  voux ?  (how is it spelled?) Is there any evidence of genetic memory?  Where does instinct come from?  Is instinct encoded in our genes?  Also, can the power of suggestion effect the outcome of scientific experiments ?


Dejavu (sp?) is a brain malfunction https://en.wikipedia...rg/wiki/Déjà_vu Wiki is a good place to start investegating these things. Instinct is indeed genetic http://psychology.ab...-motivation.htm As far as i know, despite James Randy's million dollar challenge no one has been able to show the mind can affect the outcome of scientific experiments.