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Why Does Christianity Have Two Bibles?


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#18 Foghorn

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 07:31 AM

Why did your faith fail after one?



#19 Ludwik

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 02:38 PM

Dear Friends,
 
Some of you might be inserted in my short essay, at:
 
http://pages.csam.mo...for_thought.htm
 
Feel free to share it with all who might be interested, especially students.
 
Ludwik Kowalski

#20 fahrquad

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Posted 02 January 2016 - 09:32 PM

All religions suck.  Come to the dark side...we have cookies.


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#21 EngineerJosh

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 10:08 AM

Shorter HB: Kick the Jews and the Arabs out of Palestine: it should still be commanded by the righteous United Kingdom.

100% yes! :good:



#22 Thoth101

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 05:28 AM

We all know there is a vast difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. The older one is the Judaic Bible. It recounts the history of an historically obscure, monotheistic tribe which, in Numbers, Deuteronomy and other parts describes their invasions and slaughtering of the men women and children of the lands they stole.

In comparison to the brutal Judaic Bible, the New Testament is generally a beacon of pragrance and light---even though, of course, there are exceptions. Being only half as ancient and hence that much less out-of-date, the offensive parts are much less in number: such as the admonitions to hate your family (Luke 14:26), Kill Jesus's enemies (Luke 19:27 and Math. 10:34), regarding dealing with slaves (Eph 6:5) and the subjection of women (1Tim 2:11-12).

Since there is this vast difference between the two Bibles, why is the Jewish Bible considered part of the Christian Scripture?

 

 

 

I think the correct answer would be that essentially, under Constantine, the concept of the Catholic or Universal, (Catholic meaning Universal) religion, the official Roman religion, as that which was a composite of various religious writings which were brought together to form that which is known as the Christian religion. Many of the writings were assembled from various sources, and brought into, and comprised those books of the Bible.

In short Constantine ordered the various religious sects to come together and create a single religion for Rome, a Universal religion that incorporated all of the aspects of the various religions, so that all could accept and subscribe to it.


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#23 Flummoxed

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 01:23 PM

 I think the correct answer would be that essentially, under Constantine, the concept of the Catholic or Universal, (Catholic meaning Universal) religion, the official Roman religion, as that which was a composite of various religious writings which were brought together to form that which is known as the Christian religion. Many of the writings were assembled from various sources, and brought into, and comprised those books of the Bible.

In short Constantine ordered the various religious sects to come together and create a single religion for Rome, a Universal religion that incorporated all of the aspects of the various religions, so that all could accept and subscribe to it.

 

Take the gloves of and stop being respectful, Christianity is an amalgamation of the religions in the Roman empires around 300AD, the council of Nicaea created it.  standard model of religion, Catholicism. Islam whilst having a historical actual prophet/????? is based on the old testament religions and rests very much on the new testament and the historically none existent Jesus who might have been xx chromosone :) a girl   :confused:


Edited by Flummoxed, 07 February 2020 - 01:24 PM.


#24 Thoth101

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 10:54 PM

Take the gloves of and stop being respectful, Christianity is an amalgamation of the religions in the Roman empires around 300AD, the council of Nicaea created it.  standard model of religion, Catholicism. Islam whilst having a historical actual prophet/????? is based on the old testament religions and rests very much on the new testament and the historically none existent Jesus who might have been xx chromosone :) a girl   :confused:

 

Yes I totally agree. As much as I would like to take the gloves off I know not being respectful never gets me anywhere.lol! And hard to believe even some scientist and atheist think there was a literal Jesus. But lots of information is coming out and many people are finding that it is very possible the Bible Jesus didn't exist. Have you ever read any of Acharya S's work? She went into great detail on that in the book the "Greatest Story Ever Sold". She had a site "TruthBeKnown". She sadly passed on a few years ago. She also wrote a whole book on Moses on how he didn't exist either.

 

We definitely think very much a like on this subject so nice to meet you. :yes: What about you do you think Moses was based on other characters also? I know I think it was a Syrian myth that there was an entity named Misis.

 

I want to further add that I know I learned before but I was reminded today on a show I was listening to. "Lucifer" is only said one time in the OT. If I remember correctly it was Isiah. The thing is Lucifer is a Latin word. When the book was written there was no Latin. Also when read in the Hebrew it doesn't say Lucifer but it says "Morning Star". So that would be Venus or was it Mars? It's funny how Christians get all bent out of shape when Lucifer is a planet or shiny one. ;)



#25 LaurieAG

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 11:34 PM

I'm not very religious and I am a scientist so the only thing I can comment on is that both the 'testaments' were allegedly written under the 'influence of god' and therefore largely reflected the society of the individual who wrote the 'testament'. The purer versions would be seen to have much less social bias in this respect and this is evident in the changes in sacrifice from humans to animals and then to symbolic sacrifice. :)

 

IMHO, the final 'pure testament' shouldn't sacrifice anything and be completely free of bias i.e. not a homosexual/lesbian/terrorist/hedonistic/sadistic/masochistic/etc (if you don't feel offended I probably missed your group ;) ) paradise but genuine egalitarianism for humans with humane treatment for animals to promote health and sustainable growth for all. :)



#26 Thoth101

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 12:45 AM

I'm not very religious and I am a scientist so the only thing I can comment on is that both the 'testaments' were allegedly written under the 'influence of god' and therefore largely reflected the society of the individual who wrote the 'testament'. The purer versions would be seen to have much less social bias in this respect and this is evident in the changes in sacrifice from humans to animals and then to symbolic sacrifice. :)

 

IMHO, the final 'pure testament' shouldn't sacrifice anything and be completely free of bias i.e. not a homosexual/lesbian/terrorist/hedonistic/sadistic/masochistic/etc (if you don't feel offended I probably missed your group ;) ) paradise but genuine egalitarianism for humans with humane treatment for animals to promote health and sustainable growth for all. :)

 

Or maybe the "influence of mushrooms". :lol:

 

I think a great number of the stories within the Old Testament were simply the result of Hebrew priests attempting to create a set of myths and stories by which they could organize their own religion, their own philosophy, in order to form a more cohesive society in those days. And it looks like they copied and pasted from other myths around the world with names changed and a more condensed easy to read form. Such as making it one god instead of many. Although it does still say "Let us make man in our own image".

 

As for the New Testament it can be seen that it is related to stories taken from earlier sources, such as Zoroastrian, Mithrain, Krishna, Buddhism, and Egyptian, and others. More than likely the NT was written in Rome by a family of Aristocrats who were actually able to read and write. Some say the Piso family but there could have been a few. That is how I see it anyway. I am always open to new and other possibilities. And then there is the dead sea scrolls which is a whole other can or worms.lol! :spin:



#27 Flummoxed

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 03:49 AM

Yes I totally agree. As much as I would like to take the gloves off I know not being respectful never gets me anywhere.lol! And hard to believe even some scientist and atheist think there was a literal Jesus. But lots of information is coming out and many people are finding that it is very possible the Bible Jesus didn't exist. Have you ever read any of Acharya S's work? She went into great detail on that in the book the "Greatest Story Ever Sold". She had a site "TruthBeKnown". She sadly passed on a few years ago. She also wrote a whole book on Moses on how he didn't exist either.

 

We definitely think very much a like on this subject so nice to meet you. :yes: What about you do you think Moses was based on other characters also? I know I think it was a Syrian myth that there was an entity named Misis.

 

I want to further add that I know I learned before but I was reminded today on a show I was listening to. "Lucifer" is only said one time in the OT. If I remember correctly it was Isiah. The thing is Lucifer is a Latin word. When the book was written there was no Latin. Also when read in the Hebrew it doesn't say Lucifer but it says "Morning Star". So that would be Venus or was it Mars? It's funny how Christians get all bent out of shape when Lucifer is a planet or shiny one. ;)

 

 

Ah Moses! One could speculate, and why not. Did you know the tomb of Pharoah Akenhaton has never been found? 

 

There is some evidence :shocked: that some of stories in the old testament, might be based on the Santorini volcano erupting and causing a tidal wave wiping out the Egyptians living in des res accomodation along the river Nile. The ash might have even turned the nile red, and caused a few other of the claimed acts of god which resulted in gods chosen people (being evicted from) or escaping Egypt.

 

The common people might just have risen up against the newly formed monotheist religion of the Pharoah Akenhaton, they may even have been lead by the old priests supporting multiple gods. They might have kicked Akenhaten out of Egypt along with all of his followers, and gone back to the old gods. Which leads one to speculate that the chosen people were enslaved in public service as pharoahs and priests etc. Normally people think of slaves as working in bad conditions against there will. However were the pharoahs not slaves to their own people.? This might also explain why they hung around in the desert for 40 years hoping to get their jobs back, before eventually wandering of to Palestine. Once they had decided to go to Palestine, it would take about a week to get there along well established trade routes. 

 

I wondered a long time back if Thoth wasnt the Egyptian name for the cursed son of Noah who was turned into a monkey. His people were to be sevants/slaves to noahs other descendents. Enslavement might be public servant/priest/scribe etc. 


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#28 Flummoxed

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 03:54 AM

I'm not very religious and I am a scientist so the only thing I can comment on is that both the 'testaments' were allegedly written under the 'influence of god' and therefore largely reflected the society of the individual who wrote the 'testament'. The purer versions would be seen to have much less social bias in this respect and this is evident in the changes in sacrifice from humans to animals and then to symbolic sacrifice. :)

 

IMHO, the final 'pure testament' shouldn't sacrifice anything and be completely free of bias i.e. not a homosexual/lesbian/terrorist/hedonistic/sadistic/masochistic/etc (if you don't feel offended I probably missed your group ;) ) paradise but genuine egalitarianism for humans with humane treatment for animals to promote health and sustainable growth for all. :)

 

 

Laurie I have a question? 

 

As a scientist is there any definition of god in the bible/koran that you believe in? Or as I suspect from the above as a scientist do you believe in the Pantheist view, that religion has nothing to do with god? 


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#29 Thoth101

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 04:52 AM

Ah Moses! One could speculate, and why not. Did you know the tomb of Pharoah Akenhaton has never been found? 

 

There is some evidence :shocked: that some of stories in the old testament, might be based on the Santorini volcano erupting and causing a tidal wave wiping out the Egyptians living in des res accomodation along the river Nile. The ash might have even turned the nile red, and caused a few other of the claimed acts of god which resulted in gods chosen people (being evicted from) or escaping Egypt.

 

The common people might just have risen up against the newly formed monotheist religion of the Pharoah Akenhaton, they may even have been lead by the old priests supporting multiple gods. They might have kicked Akenhaten out of Egypt along with all of his followers, and gone back to the old gods. Which leads one to speculate that the chosen people were enslaved in public service as pharoahs and priests etc. Normally people think of slaves as working in bad conditions against there will. However were the pharoahs not slaves to their own people.? This might also explain why they hung around in the desert for 40 years hoping to get their jobs back, before eventually wandering of to Palestine. Once they had decided to go to Palestine, it would take about a week to get there along well established trade routes. 

 

I wondered a long time back if Thoth wasnt the Egyptian name for the cursed son of Noah who was turned into a monkey. His people were to be sevants/slaves to noahs other descendents. Enslavement might be public servant/priest/scribe etc. 

 

It is all very interesting about Akenhaten. And if I remember correctly didn't he have an odd shaped head?

 

Well speaking of Noah. What do you know...... looks like another story based off other flood stories. And there is so many of them other then the story of Noah. Just do a quick search on ancient flood stories. The one I remember most off hand is the Sumerian one with Enlil and Enki. Enlil wanted to destroy the humans with the flood but the scientist Enki helped to save the humans. I think it is obvious a Noah didn't put every animal on the Earth in a boat. I would think the true story would be putting all animals DNA and humans on a boat or spaceship which I would think Enki had.



#30 Flummoxed

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 05:15 AM

 And if I remember correctly didn't he have an odd shaped head?

 

 

Oh Ra! Maybe ET ? 

 

No idea, never saw a photo :) also almost everything about him was destroyed after he was kicked out, and replaced by his son Tutankamun whose mummy they have dug up and is normal, maybe Akenhaten had a odd shaped hat. I dont know if the Egyptians practised skull deformation, like the Inca did in Peru. But simply wrap a rope around a babies head, and it will elongate as the child grows. It worked for the incas, so I guess it would work for Egyptians. I bet the baby would have had a head ache . 



#31 Thoth101

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 05:20 AM

Oh Ra! Maybe ET ? 

 

No idea, never saw a photo :) also almost everything about him was destroyed after he was kicked out, and replaced by his son Tutankamun whose mummy they have dug up and is normal, maybe Akenhaten had a odd shaped hat. I dont know if the Egyptians practised skull deformation, like the Inca did in Peru. But simply wrap a rope around a babies head, and it will elongate as the child grows. It worked for the incas, so I guess it would work for Egyptians. I bet the baby would have had a head ache . 

 

I know ancient aliens did a show on him that was pretty interesting. I can't remember all the details though. It makes you wonder where their idea came from of elongating their skulls. I would think they would want to mimic their gods. That is what would make sense to me. I don't think a human just woke up one day and said wouldn't it be cool to elongate this child's skull.lol. And especially when they found this custom in different parts of the world such as in South America.



#32 Thoth101

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 05:31 AM

Ah Moses! One could speculate, and why not. Did you know the tomb of Pharoah Akenhaton has never been found? 

 

There is some evidence :shocked: that some of stories in the old testament, might be based on the Santorini volcano erupting and causing a tidal wave wiping out the Egyptians living in des res accomodation along the river Nile. The ash might have even turned the nile red, and caused a few other of the claimed acts of god which resulted in gods chosen people (being evicted from) or escaping Egypt.

 

The common people might just have risen up against the newly formed monotheist religion of the Pharoah Akenhaton, they may even have been lead by the old priests supporting multiple gods. They might have kicked Akenhaten out of Egypt along with all of his followers, and gone back to the old gods. Which leads one to speculate that the chosen people were enslaved in public service as pharoahs and priests etc. Normally people think of slaves as working in bad conditions against there will. However were the pharoahs not slaves to their own people.? This might also explain why they hung around in the desert for 40 years hoping to get their jobs back, before eventually wandering of to Palestine. Once they had decided to go to Palestine, it would take about a week to get there along well established trade routes. 

 

I wondered a long time back if Thoth wasnt the Egyptian name for the cursed son of Noah who was turned into a monkey. His people were to be sevants/slaves to noahs other descendents. Enslavement might be public servant/priest/scribe etc. 

 

PS: There is also this which I totally forgot about:

 

Startling Similarity between Hindu Flood Legend of Manu and the Biblical Account of Noah

 

In 1872, the amateur Assyriologist, George Smith, made a discovery that would shock the world. Whilst studying a particular tablet from the ancient Mesopotamian city of Nineveh, he comes across a story that many would have been familiar with. When Smith succeeded in deciphering the text, he realized that the tablet contained an ancient Mesopotamian myth that paralleled the story of Noah’s Ark from the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament.

 

Today, we are aware that flood myths are found not only in Near Eastern societies, but also in many other ancient civilizations throughout the world. Accounts of a great deluge are seen in ancient Sumerian tablets, the Deucalion in Greek mythology, the lore of the K’iche’ and Maya peoples in Mesoamerica, the Gun-Yu myth of China, the stories of the Lac Courte Oreilles Ojibwa tribe of North America, and the stories of the Muisca people, to name but a few. One of the oldest and most interesting accounts originates in Hindu mythology, and while there are discrepancies, it does bear fascinating similarity to the story of Noah and his ark.

https://www.ancient-...biblical-020318

 


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#33 Flummoxed

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 06:01 AM

PS: There is also this which I totally forgot about:

 

Startling Similarity between Hindu Flood Legend of Manu and the Biblical Account of Noah

 

In 1872, the amateur Assyriologist, George Smith, made a discovery that would shock the world. Whilst studying a particular tablet from the ancient Mesopotamian city of Nineveh, he comes across a story that many would have been familiar with. When Smith succeeded in deciphering the text, he realized that the tablet contained an ancient Mesopotamian myth that paralleled the story of Noah’s Ark from the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament.

 

Today, we are aware that flood myths are found not only in Near Eastern societies, but also in many other ancient civilizations throughout the world. Accounts of a great deluge are seen in ancient Sumerian tablets, the Deucalion in Greek mythology, the lore of the K’iche’ and Maya peoples in Mesoamerica, the Gun-Yu myth of China, the stories of the Lac Courte Oreilles Ojibwa tribe of North America, and the stories of the Muisca people, to name but a few. One of the oldest and most interesting accounts originates in Hindu mythology, and while there are discrepancies, it does bear fascinating similarity to the story of Noah and his ark.

https://www.ancient-...biblical-020318

 

 

I have a remote memory, cant place where I read it, but it is something along the lines that the Hindus traveled out of india and are linked to Judism/old testament, and maybe to Egypt. Your link would seem to confirm the Old testament link. 

 

There are the Cochin Jews in India https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5020127/ who claim to have been there since before Solomon era :) but perhaps are more recent. Perhaps the flood story was introduced by them. Also I understand the Talmud has had many rewrites, so cant be regarded as a accurate account of anything, happening in Palestine. Hinduism started probably around 2300BC when it was first documented, the stories incorporated in it likely existed before hand.


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#34 LaurieAG

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Posted 09 February 2020 - 03:50 AM

Laurie I have a question? 

 

As a scientist is there any definition of god in the bible/koran that you believe in? Or as I suspect from the above as a scientist do you believe in the Pantheist view, that religion has nothing to do with god? 

There's human nature both good and bad and every variation in between.

 

Don't you know that 'pagan' in Latin just mean a rural/country person? The cities create the religions as a means of population control.


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