mikal Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 hi, what do you think about th article below? and what is your thought?materialism dead of alive?Materialism: A 19th-Century Fallacy The reality of the creation of which we speak has been ignored or denied since the earliest times by a particular philosophical point of view. It is called "materialism". This philosophy, which was originally formulated among the ancient Greeks, has also made an appearance from time to time in other cultures and has been advanced by individuals as well. It holds that matter alone exists and that it has done so for an infinity of time. From these tenets, it claims that the universe has also "always" existed and was not created. In addition to their claim that the universe exists in an infinity of time, materialists also assert that there is no purpose or aim in the universe. They claim that all the equilibrium, harmony and order that we see around us are merely the product of coincidence. This "coincidence assertion" is also put forward when the question of how human beings came into being comes up. The theory of evolution, widely referred to as Darwinism, is another application of materialism to the natural world. We just mentioned that some of the founders of modern science were faithful people who were in agreement that the universe was created and organised by God. In the 19th century, an important change took place in the attitudes of the scientific world with respect to this matter. Materialism was deliberately introduced to the agenda of modern science by various groups. Because the 19th century's political and social conditions formed a good basis for materialism, the philosophy gained wide acceptance and spread throughout the scientific world. The findings of modern science however undeniably demonstrate how false the claims of materialism really are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Welcome mikal. I have never heard about this. "The reality of creation" is an interesting phrase - does this imply that you are a creationist? But I am moving this to the Philosophies and humanities thread as it is posted in the wrong group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Originally posted by: mikalhi, what do you think about th article below? and what is your thought?materialism dead of alive?Materialism: A 19th-Century Fallacy The reality of the creation of which we speak has been ignored or denied since the earliest times by a particular philosophical point of view.What do you mean by creation? A conscious act by an intelligent and aware entity? How do you know this is the reality? It is called "materialism". This philosophy, which was originally formulated among the ancient Greeks, has also made an appearance from time to time in other cultures and has been advanced by individuals as well. It holds that matter alone exists and that it has done so for an infinity of time. From these tenets, it claims that the universe has also "always" existed and was not created.Are you saying they all believe that our universe have existed for an eternity? Why would they? In addition to their claim that the universe exists in an infinity of time, materialists also assert that there is no purpose or aim in the universe. They claim that all the equilibrium, harmony and order that we see around us are merely the product of coincidence. This "coincidence assertion" is also put forward when the question of how human beings came into being comes up. The theory of evolution, widely referred to as Darwinism, is another application of materialism to the natural world.You forgot every other scientific theory. Or is biology somehow special in this particular sense? No, it's not. It's formulated to explain facts, just like every other theory. That it doesn't mention a non-existing, never-observed god is not something bad, it's something good. We just mentioned that some of the founders of modern science were faithful people who were in agreement that the universe was created and organised by God.That doesn't make it so. In the 19th century, an important change took place in the attitudes of the scientific world with respect to this matter. Materialism was deliberately introduced to the agenda of modern science by various groups. Because the 19th century's political and social conditions formed a good basis for materialism, the philosophy gained wide acceptance and spread throughout the scientific world. The findings of modern science however undeniably demonstrate how false the claims of materialism really are.Especially if materialism actually claims our universe to be of an infinite age. But why are you saying that science would claim something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctus Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 First of all, welcome to the forum mikal, I hope you will keep posting threads like this one as it's a very nice starting point for discussion. After your definition I'm no materialist, simply because I do not believe that the existence of our universe is infinite. But I do not believe in god, therefore I should be materialist after your definition. You must admit that is already one contradiction (or thinking fallacy) of the article. And there are many others as stargazer already pointed out: if some big scientists have believed in god and creation of universe this doesn't imply that god really exists. If you want, this follows straight from mathematics: something wrong can imply whatever you want (that means right or wrong).Also, referrring to where the article talks about the founders of modern science, if Netwon for example was a believer in god that has nothing to mean, he lived in a period where nobody could afford to be a non-believer without being rejected from society. I think the last phrase you write is yours and not from the article so tell us how findings of modern science demonstrate how fals materialist claims are (obviously only those claims which materialists say to be true, that means nothing like infinite existence of the universe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikal Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 hello guys, the messaj I sent was not mine, i just copied from somewhere some part of the article.http://www.harunyahya.com/70scientific_mat_sci25.php i am a not a creationist but neither evolutionist. "why" i guess will be your question... there are really endlless dark points of evolutionary theory. don't you think so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Mikal, read our FAQ. If you copy/paste from another forum you are violating our rules (and basically copyright rules in general). You also failed to credit your source so we discussed it thinking it was an original post. We are frankly tired of people posting silly material from the harunyahua site and we might very soon start filtering out any links to it as it is in general a completely non-scientific website filled with creationist nonsense. If you want to discuss the "endless dark points of evolutionary theory" I suggest you 1) post in our evolution category and 2) show us that you know anything at all about evolutionary theory. Post questions about the theory and someone might be able to help you out. Do NOT post utterly meaningless statements like "there are really endless dark points" without explaining what these "dark points" are, and also which evolutionary theory you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robust Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Merely seeking the Sun like everything else. "Start With The Sun." - Ian McAuliffe (poet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Tormod, it reminds me about those old days of mine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Tormod, it reminds me about those old days of mine... Funny. I KNEW you would say that. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Another post connected to that truely idiotic harunyahya.com. Are they targetting you Tormod? Or is the same person changing names all the time? Or does this site pay suckers to push this garbage on Science related sites. Hoping to catch a few of the uniformed? You should just automatically delete any threads started based on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 You should just automatically delete any threads started based on this site. I think in vBulletin I can just filter out the link part...make it a Banned word. Should work wonders. How much do you bet they have alternate URLs though? :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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