Can we fly in air

[udhitsharma]

i was just wondering that could we invent a aircraft that would run with magnetic force, enabling it to rise against gravity, and could move as fast as other UFO

reply i would like to know ur views

[Jay-qu]

magnetic and gravitational forces are different forces, I do not know of any way that a magnetic field could possibly counter-act gravity. It just doesnt work that way..

[InfiniteNow]

...yet. :cup:

[Turtle]

magnetic and gravitational forces are different forces, I do not know of any way that a magnetic field could possibly counter-act gravity. It just doesnt work that way..

 

Sure you do (know a way a magnetic field could counteract gravity). Have you never put 2 small donut magnets on a pencil with opposite poles together? Doesn't the lower one push the upper one away against gravity when the pencil is perpindicular to Earth? The levitating superconducting magnets counteract gravity as well. :) Well, if not counter-acting gravity, they at least counteract its effects.:cup:

[Janus]

Sure you do (know a way a magnetic field could counteract gravity). Have you never put 2 small donut magnets on a pencil with opposite poles together? Doesn't the lower one push the upper one away against gravity when the pencil is perpindicular to Earth? The levitating superconducting magnets counteract gravity as well. :) Well, if not counter-acting gravity, they at least counteract its effects.:cup:

 

Well, unless the OP is invisioning flatbed trucks carrying giant magnets zooming along the ground to remain directly under the aircraft, I don't think this is what he had in mind :D .

[TheBigDog]

Maglev trains have been around for years. And all electric motors run on the priciple of magnetic repulsion and attraction. So when an elevator lifts you you are being lifted up by magnets working to overcome gravity.

 

Bill

[Turtle]

:)

Well, unless the OP is invisioning flatbed trucks carrying giant magnets zooming along the ground to remain directly under the aircraft, I don't think this is what he had in mind :D .

 

OP is "Other Person"?? Anyway, I only meant to correct JayQ's technical error, not support using a magnetic field to power an aircraft. While Earth has a magnetic field, it has such a low power density (proper terminology?) that I don't see pushing against it sufficiently to raise a device/craft. :cup:

Maglev trains have been around for years. And all electric motors run on the priciple of magnetic repulsion and attraction. So when an elevator lifts you you are being lifted up by magnets working to overcome gravity.

This is true, moreover illustrates what I have in mind above, i.e. magnetism only works in close proximity relative to the size/density of the magnetic field.

[GAHD]

Google "cigar craft" or "cigar UFO" I watched an...odd... documentary a while back about them. called "(something) (something) and Nazi UFOs".

[CraigD]

i was just wondering that could we invent a aircraft that would run with magnetic force, enabling it to rise against gravity, and could move as fast as other UFO

My first thought is that, being as they’re unidentified, we’ve no certain idea how fast “other UFOs” are, or even if they exists. That’s no obstacle, though to considering the basic engineering of an aircraft propelled by magnetic force.

I do not know of any way that a magnetic field could possibly counter-act gravity.

You probably have used a magnetic fields to counteract gravity within the past week or so, when you used a electric motor-driven elevator or escalator. In those cases, the magnetic fields were a strong, compact ones created by purposefully built magnets in the motors, and a gears and cables were used to transfer the force that lifted you against gravity. An aircraft would need to produce force directly, using either a field generated by devices in the space in which it operates, or the Earth’s magnetic field. Since a UFO can’t depend on magnets that must be installed before its visit, I’ll consider just the latter.

 

The equation for the force produced by a current moving in a magnetic field is:

Force = Flux density * Current * Length of conductor

At the altitudes that aircraft operate, the Earth’s magnet flux density is about the same as it is at the surface, between 0.00003 and 0.00006 teslas. Except for the area around the poles, it’s roughly parallel to the surface, so the direction of the force is roughly vertical for an east-west current, east for an up-down current, or west for a down-up current. A north or south force isn’t possible.

 

Let’s assume a car-sized, saucer-shaped aircraft massing 1000 kg and diameter of 5 meters. Solving the force required to levitate it against the acceleration of gravity (about 10 m/s/s), we get

10000 = 0.00003125 * I * 5

I = 64000000

 

So, a total east-west current of 64 million amps is needed. It can be carried in many or a few conductors – for example, a 1 m * 0.2 m cross-section of 200000 0.001 m insulated wires each carrying 320 amps. Assuming an adequate cooling system, this could be achieved using an ordinary conductor, such as high-quality aluminum wire.

 

It’s important that the current in this conductor interact with the Earth’s magnetic field only when traveling in a mostly east-west direction. For a direct current electrical circuit, this could be done by enclosing half of it in a faraday_cage. Without this, half of the conductor would experience an upward force, while the other experienced a downward force, and the whole thing would spin like the armature of an electric motor.

 

The energy requirements of this aircraft would be modest – to move upward at 1 m/s would require just the mechanical power (10,000 W) plus the power due to resistance of the electrical circuit (assuming aluminum wire, a surprisingly low 6 W). Remaining stationary (hovering) would require only the 6 W resistance power. Power losses due to generating the current, cooling the wires to remove the 6 W of heat output, etc, are ignored, but I don’t believe they would be prohibitive.

 

:D :) At this point, I must throw my hands up and appeal to someone to check my work, as it seems that an Earth’s-magnetic-field-electric-motor aircraft is very feasible, and offers some valuable advantages over existing conventional aircraft. I suspect I’ve made one or more critical mistake. Otherwise, given this feasibility, the popularity that such a “flying car” would certainly enjoy, and the obvious nature of the calculations, why are such vehicles not commonplace? To my knowledge, not even one has ever existed. :cup:

[Turtle]

:D :) At this point, I must throw my hands up and appeal to someone to check my work, as it seems that an Earth’s-magnetic-field-electric-motor aircraft is very feasible, and offers some valuable advantages over existing conventional aircraft. I suspect I’ve made one or more critical mistake. Otherwise, given this feasibility, the popularity that such a “flying car” would certainly enjoy, and the obvious nature of the calculations, why are such vehicles not commonplace? To my knowledge, not even one has ever existed. :cup:

 

Me too! I must stand beside you & throw up my hands as well; two of us may attract twice as much attention.:eek: I had in mind a general idea that the field from a ship would have to extend for miles if not dozens of miles, something like the hover craft have to spread out their reactive force.

Accepting for the moment your figures are correct, I fear we have to make the coils somehow moveable to allow navigation in any direction. I am truly intrigued now Craig.:eek:

[CraigD]

… Accepting for the moment your figures are correct, I fear we have to make the coils somehow moveable to allow navigation in any direction. I am truly intrigued now Craig.:lol:

Accepting my figures are correct (of which I’m still skeptical), The orientation of the coils shouldn’t be to difficult – just have them in an oval (one half magnetically shielded) with the long axis horizontal, point east or west. This would give a roughly vertical thrust. To move horizontally, it would just be necessary to tip the whole vehicle, much like a helicopter.

 

The main quirk and limitation is its sensitivity to direction. Rotate 90° to point north or south (aligned with Earth’s magnetic field lines), and the vehicle produces no thrust, dropping like a rock! Also, except near the poles, substantial north or south thrusts are impossible. Somewhat like a sailboat making way upwind by tacking, the vehicle would need to zig-zag east and west, using some sort of airfoil to drive itself north or south. And, near the poles, it would be unable to generate vertical thrust.

 

If no calculated flaw can be found in the design, I’m curious to try making a small model.

[Jay-qu]

magnetic and gravitational forces are different forces, I do not know of any way that a magnetic field could possibly counter-act gravity. It just doesnt work that way..

grr, sorry wrong wording, yes magnetic forces can and often counteract gravity. What I meant to say is that directly a magnetic field does not interact with a gravitational field (unless I am missing something fundamental?) which means that its not an 'anti-grav' craft, but using the interaction with some other magnetic field to remain air-borne.

[Turtle]

grr, sorry wrong wording, yes magnetic forces can and often counteract gravity. What I meant to say is that directly a magnetic field does not interact with a gravitational field (unless I am missing something fundamental?) which means that its not an 'anti-grav' craft, but using the interaction with some other magnetic field to remain air-borne.

 

:lol: ;) Technically any flying vehicle is "anti-gravity" in the sense it defies it; jumping is antigravity travel even.:cup: But to clarify, you are right we don't intend to magnetically interact with gravity directly, rather we intend to magnetically interact with Earth's magnetic field & by that defy gravity. :doh:

[Jay-qu]

cool :lol:

 

I always thought that the magnetic field of earth would be too weak to be able to make something that large levitate, but there are the calculations.. tell me, what can produce such a large source of current?

[Turtle]

cool :cup:

 

I always thought that the magnetic field of earth would be too weak to be able to make something that large levitate, but there are the calculations.. tell me, what can produce such a large source of current?

 

I have a similar hunch except I hunch it is too dispersed. As to the power required, Craig calculated 10,000 watts which is only a couple of home generators.

Back on my hunch; I think if we don't make our ship's field broad, the power may not transfer well locally - much as spraying a hose through chicken wire.:lol:

[Mercedes Benzene]

Can we fly in air

Can we fly in water?

 

Anyway, yes we can fly in air... just not in the way that you mention: using magnetic forces in conjunction with gravity.

Two completely different things.

[Queso]

Don't forget about dreams.