Gravity Bends spacetime

[ryan2006]

We have tried to understand gravity, by seeing what Newton saw he would have said it was two masses repelling oneanother for what I understand. Einstein said that space and time were curved spelling out gravity as a force that curves the fabric of spacetime. Since everything is in motion we can tell that gravity is a very complex thing and I would say that explaining gravity today would require both an explanation of gravity waves and an explanation of the hypothetical partical called the graviton. Inotherwards it would need to be explained in a string theory. Since electrons orbit around a nucleus, the earth around the sun, comets ect.. have elipitical patterns it must mean that gravity is destined to travel in circles or at least the inertia force, along with the centrifugal forces at work have bearing on our understanding of gravity. The reason we went from Newton's physics to Eienteins physics is because we were able to observe light bending around the sun. My question is this. Because light bends around bodies or masses does that mean that our universe has a boundry since our universe contains mass light would bend in space and time making circular correct hypothesis or incorrect hypothesis. Light is obviously not bouncing back to us from the edges of our known universe so what happens to it. The fabric of spacetime is bent all over the place because masses are in motion and masses that are more dense carry more gravitational weight according to what I understand. Leaving you to wonder whether light is escaping our universe or held captive by the masses that comprise our known universe. Harry I know you don't believe that our universe has a boundry to me it is just a hypothesis perhaps it is a gut feeling I have which is unscientific but perhaps if we were to create a couple models for what the universe may look like or the multiuniverse of which I believe is ordered we may be able to solve something perhaps not all the answers but enough to satisfy us until we get feel compelled to learn more.

[IDMclean]

Or it could easily be described in terms of wave/force inerference such that:

• E is Electric
  
• B is Magnetic
  
• S is Strong
  
• W is Weak
  
• G is Gravity
  

 

Check out this thread: UFT By KAC, Arkain101, CraigD

[Jay-qu]

Einstein said that space and time were curved spelling out gravity as a force that curves the fabric of spacetime.

 

just for clarification, gravity doesnt cause spacetime to curve, gravity is the curving of spacetime :)

[infamous]

just for clarification, gravity doesnt cause spacetime to curve, gravity is the curving of spacetime :lol:

Correct Jay-qu, I believe the theory is; It is matter that causes spacetime to curve. And if matter is truly only the local concentration of energy, then I suppose one could assume that gravity is the result of the workings and character of energy................Infy

[IDMclean]

More percisely Gravity is the result of curviture of space-time due to a charged particle in motion. Hence why Light bends space-time despite not having mass. (however this is slightly incorrect in Unified Field Theorm, but I won't get into that here.)

[Jay-qu]

light bends space time eh? tell me more, is there experimental evidence or is it just theory?

[IDMclean]

Experimental evidence. Umm I believe it was a solar eclipse that demonstrated this. Though I not be sure. Not my personal theorm, this would be part of Einstein's tensor, if you don't believe me. As I have repeatedly said on this site, a Photon has an absolute charge value, but has a zero net charge value. This is to say that a photon is a charged particle in constant motion.

[Jay-qu]

The eclipse experiment shows that light always travels in straight lines through spacetime, but in our limited 3d space it appears that the light is bending.

[IDMclean]

However it also showed that light is affected by the curving of space-time, further it was in the theoretical discovery of the blackhole that it became abunently apparent that photons bend spacetim in a very real way.

 

Given proper circumstance a energetic enough photon, one with enough charged bodies composing it, can bend spacetime significantly.

[Erasmus00]

Given proper circumstance a energetic enough photon, one with enough charged bodies composing it, can bend spacetime significantly.

 

Why do you think photons have substructure? (other bodies composing them). Why do you think a highly energetic photon has more substructure? Consider that the energy of a photon varies with the frame of reference, if you want number of "charged bodies" in a photon to depend on energy, this means two different observers see a different number of charged bodies. This seems unacceptable for a physical theory.

-Will

[Erasmus00]

More percisely Gravity is the result of curviture of space-time due to a charged particle in motion.

 

The curvature of an area can be defined uniquely, whereas the "motion" of a particle cannot. If all observers agree on the curvature but not all observers agree on the motion then the curvature cannot depend on the motion.

 

Also, why do you think a neutral particle (uncharged) will not curve space?

 

Why do you think light is charged? Why would charge effect space-time and not energy/mass?

-Will

[IDMclean]

Ahem, have you looked at the CUTF thread yet?

 

It is defined in the dimensions of c itself that c has charge, is affected by charge and all that rigor marole.

 

[math]\mu_0 = 4\pi*10^{-7} \frac{\frac{r}{t^2}}{(Q/t)^2}"[/math]

Where q is the Classic Electric Charge. (This is measured in Newtons per Ampere squared)

 

[math]\epsilon_0 = 8.8541878176*10^{-12} \frac{Q^2*E^{-1}}{r}[/math]

E is Energy. (This is measured in Farads per Meter.)

 

[math]c^2 = \epsilon_0\mu_0[/math]

 

This defines Light as being inherently charge, and therefore due to mass-energy equivilancy all mass being defined as charge in motion. Further proof of this can be cajoled out of the Einstein Tensor, but that is math I don't fully understand yet and so will not be discussing here yet.

[Erasmus00]

It is defined in the dimensions of c itself that c has charge, is affected by charge and all that rigor marole.

 

It simply isn't. Niether units of time nor length are dependant on charge.

 

All of your manipulations of [math]\epsilon_0[/math] and [math]\mu_0[/math] are based on your specific choices for units (that of SI). In gaussian units, there is no need for these, which strongly implies these "constants" are relics of a choice of unit and not physically meaningul. In fact, [math]\mu_0[/math] is defined so that [math]c^2 = \epsilon_0\mu_0[/math]. Hence, it has no meaning apart from c.

 

c, on the other hand, is a meaningful constant. It can be defined as the limiting speed that information can travel (which in turn implies that it is the ratio of electric and magnetic field strengths as this is intimately related to a limiting speed of information. See, for instance, Landau and Lifshitz "Classical Theory of Fields." )

-Will

[Jay-qu]

Erasmus has posed some very good questions that you have made no attempt at answering kick. Also how a photon bends spacetime is still unexplained. Please provide backup of your claims, that doesnt include refering us to read the entire CUFT thread. Thanks.

[Boerseun]

To the best of my knowledge, space is curved by the presence of mass. This curvature we experience as gravity. Photons have no mass, and therefore only follow the space-time curve, not create it nor influence it in any other way.

[Qfwfq]

Indeed, the observations during eclipses, confirming the calculations of GR, are explained as space-time being curved by the sun, not by the photon.

 

Photons have no mass, and therefore only follow the space-time curve, not create it nor influence it in any other way.

Actually, a photon has kinetic energy and all energy counts, which is the reason for the field equations being non-linear since the field itself has energy density. The matter is simply that a body's own field doesn't contribute in determining its motion and the same goes for other charges: Does an electron accelerate itself?

[ryan2006]

I am just an artist but it has extended to everything over the years maddening my mind and my spelling is that a right brained thing? Perhaps if I improved my writing skills I could be like Iaasac Asimov. For now I am hoping that we just have a few laughs Lord knows the best medicine is laughter.