An existance of god or lack of

[inside the sun]

thought, theory, idea & Opinion:

God cannot exist becuase it is an endless loophole the thought of there being a creator, because if god created us then who created god? To say we have a creator, and they created the world who created them and their world? And if no one did and they just simply exist, then why don't we simply exist, because they are god and we are not?

[rockytriton]

great, so what created all this mass that couldn't be created due to the laws of physics then?

[inside the sun]

we all want answers, religion and philosophy answers those questions that cannot be answered by science, at least not yet, maybe never?

No one can tell us what happens when we die, or where we go.

No one can tell us where we came from, why we are here, where all this **** came from etc..

Religion gives answers, but just like philosophy or anything else these are educated guesses, assumptions, thoughts, theories and ideas, there is no facts with any of these answers.

[Drip Curl Magic]

Whether it be some nameless entity.

 

or something more human.

 

It doesn't matter. God exists if you want god to exist. It's all perception and speculation.

 

"god" is such a widely used term.... that to deny existance of "god" would be so ignorant. God exists.... as do all fictional characters in books and stories. Maybe not physically.... but in people's minds, atleast.

 

But as to whether or not there is an actual functioning entity out there who created EVERYTHING..... these are my thoughts....

 

I don't think there is a god... but I don't want to jump the gun with any assumptions. I am for too insignificant of a creature to figure these things out on my own.... but as a whole.... the human race have so many creative ideas. It's so funny. We are all helping eachother out.... guiding eachother... the new generation, I believe, have a much better understanding of what the origin of life is. We are getting there as a race.... but we, individually, just can't really comprehend it all fast enough to come up with the answers.

 

When I die, I will find out.... or perhaps I won't find out anything. who knows?

[InfiniteNow]

"god" is such a widely used term.... that to deny existance of "god" would be so ignorant. God exists.... as do all fictional characters in books and stories. Maybe not physically.... but in people's minds, atleast.

Bravo, DCM... bravo... :hyper:

[Rebiu]

It is true that the question cannot be answered until the nature of the god you speak of is enumerated.

 

The typical response to this is the say god is the creator of the universe. This of course poses two problems. First one has attempted to define the term god with an equally undefined term of creator. For the word creator to have meaning the mechanisms and nature of creation must be defined. The second problem is with the word universe. My Merriam Webster defines universe as the entire or whole. Therefore there can be no creator of the universe as it must be part of the universe.

 

This argument is sometime answered with references to a supernatural aspect of the universe that cannot be observed of understood. The supernatural is therefore not only undefined but it cannot be defined.

 

This is the nature of rationalizations about god. If the term is ever defined the contradictions inherent in the concept destroy if possibility. This is why religion is based on faith. Not faith in observed, understood and consistent phenomenon but faith in the unobservable, irrational, and chaotic.

 

This allows religions to be bent to justify any agenda. The American slave owner was just as certain he had gods sanction as the abolitionist.

[Rebiu]

we all want answers, religion and philosophy answers those questions that cannot be answered by science, at least not yet, maybe never?

Philosophy is defined as the critical study of beliefs. How is that distinguished from science? You say that religion provides answers, perhaps you could give a few of these answers.

No one can tell us what happens when we die, or where we go.

People can tell you. You just do not want to accept the answer. When you die and brain activity stops so does you awareness. You many pretend that there is a continuation but that does not make it so.

No one can tell us where we came from, why we are here, where all this **** came from etc..

The origins of life and humans are not known in explicit detail but the general concepts are well understood and validated.

Religion gives answers, but just like philosophy or anything else these are educated guesses, assumptions, thoughts, theories and ideas, there is no facts with any of these answers.

On the contrary religious answers are not educated guesses to explain phenomenon, they are a distortion of human rational to allow one to believe whatever they want to believe rather that face a difficult to accept reality.

[inside the sun]

Everything stated is opinon, thought, theory idea. just as what you stated. neither is science, science is facts. There are no facts for these answers. Religion isn't about facts, or proofs, thats why thereis this whole word added Believe

[Rebiu]

Everything stated is opinon, thought, theory idea. just as what you stated.

Theist typically must use word games to fight their own self-doubt about their theistic beliefs.

neither is science, science is facts. There are no facts for these answers.

There are a great many facts for each of these answers.

Religion isn't about facts, or proofs, thats why thereis this whole word added Believe

That is what I said. This concept of belief without skepticism and contrary to evidence is very harmful to individuals and societies.

[inside the sun]

fact Audio pronunciation of "fact" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fkt)

n.

 

1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

2.

1. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.

2. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.

3. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.

3. A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.

4. Law. The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.

Show me facts for the existance of god.

where we were before we were born

where we go when we are dead.

 

And im not asking about our bodies, becuase obviously our body was not here, and our body stats and rots here when we die. Their are things inside of us that you cannot use science to see, such as Minds, Souls, Etc...where do these things go when we die?

(by the way there were curious literal people that actually tried seeing a difference in weight when a human died, to see if you can see a change in weight due to the departure of soul and mind from vessel.

 

It is a horrible thing to take things literally, to not think outside the box, and also to have a close mind.

[Celeste]

Originally posted by Rebiu:

1. When you die and brain activity stops so does you awareness.

2. The origins of life and humans are not known in explicit detail but the general concepts are well understood and validated.

3. There are a great many facts for each of these answers.

 

 

Fact: something known to be true: something that can be shown to be true, to exist, or to have happened; the truth or actual existence of something, as opposed to the supposition of something or a belief about something;

 

Validated: prove valid; show or confirm the validity of something; give evidence for; confirm truthfulness of something

 

Rebiu, would you please provide me with some links to the scientific evidence that prove that your above statements are indeed fact rather then suppositions, theories or your own personal beliefs? Thanks, I would greatly appreciate it!!

 

Originally Posted by inside the sun

Religion isn't about facts, or proofs, thats why there is this whole word added Believe

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

This concept of belief without skepticism and contrary to evidence is very harmful to individuals and societies.

 

"Very harmful to individuals and societies?" How so? :)

 

Example: As an individual, I live in a society/state founded by and largely

(60%) dominated by Mormons.

(81% of Utah individuals are Christians.)

Not only is it considered a highly religious society/state, but it has been ranked in the top 10 best society/states for an individual to live in. ie...

 

Utah Ranks 3rd Healthiest in Nation

Entrepreneurship and Small Business - Utah ranked 7th

Utah Ranked Best Financial Steward in U.S.

Provo/Orem Utah Ranked Number 1 Secure Location

Utah Ranked 9th Most Technology-Friendly State

Utah has the nation's highest rate of adult volunteers

Utah Ranks 6th for "Economic Freedom"

Utah is Number 3 in Women-Owned Business Growth

Utah ranks 9th for Quality Healthcare

etc...etc...etc....

[InfiniteNow]

(by the way there were curious literal people that actually tried seeing a difference in weight when a human died, to see if you can see a change in weight due to the departure of soul and mind from vessel.

21 grams, no?

[InfiniteNow]

Questions re: Utah posed in new thread:

 

http://hypography.com/forums/social-sciences/5728-utah-what-happened.html

[Rebiu]

You want me to validate things that are not actual.

Show me facts for the existance of god.

There are none

where we were before we were born

We did not exist and therefore we had no location.

where we go when we are dead.

We no longer exist.

 

And im not asking about our bodies, becuase obviously our body was not here, and our body stats and rots here when we die. Their are things inside of us that you cannot use science to see, such as Minds, Souls, Etc...where do these things go when we die?

These are patterns in the medium of our brains and bodies nothing more. Where is you evidence that they are somehow persistent.

(by the way there were curious literal people that actually tried seeing a difference in weight when a human died, to see if you can see a change in weight due to the departure of soul and mind from vessel.

 

It is a horrible thing to take things literally, to not think outside the box, and also to have a close mind.

I feel, to believe in the irrational because it give you comfort, is an equally horrible thing.

[Rebiu]

Rebiu, would you please provide me with some links to the scientific evidence that prove that your above statements are indeed fact rather then suppositions, theories or your own personal beliefs? Thanks, I would greatly appreciate it!!

Neither I nor anyone else can prove a negative of this nature. The simplest solution is to be accepted until evidence of something else is quantified. Very typical of the theist to claim that lack of evidence is not evidence of lacking when in fact that is exactly what it is.

"Very harmful to individuals and societies?" How so? :)

Here are some examples. Religious teachings that homosexuals are a threat to society. Religiously rationalized attacks on evolution. Discriminatory hiring practices based on religion. The attribution of unwanted behavior to evil forces.

 

Example: As an individual, I live in a society/state founded by and largely

(60%) dominated by Mormons.

(81% of Utah individuals are Christians.)

Not only is it considered a highly religious society/state, but it has been ranked in the top 10 best society/states for an individual to live in. ie...

 

Utah Ranks 3rd Healthiest in Nation

Entrepreneurship and Small Business - Utah ranked 7th

Utah Ranked Best Financial Steward in U.S.

Provo/Orem Utah Ranked Number 1 Secure Location

Utah Ranked 9th Most Technology-Friendly State

Utah has the nation's highest rate of adult volunteers

Utah Ranks 6th for "Economic Freedom"

Utah is Number 3 in Women-Owned Business Growth

Utah ranks 9th for Quality Healthcare

etc...etc...etc....

Perhaps you see this as evidence of religions benign nature but are you aware of the violence of Utah’s beginning that was caused by religious forces on both sides of the conflict.

[inside the sun]

haha yeah i saw that movie

[questor]

why not just say that God only exists in the mind of man, while the creator of the universe existed long before the advent of man. there is no proof that the universe was created, and no proof that it was NOT created, therefore we have to rely upon evidence for or against each theory. THAT is where the

discussion should be, the rest means nothing.