World Religions will soon end....

[Southtown]

Have a heart. We need more than technology to live in peace. We need to tolerate each other, we need to help each other. These require unselfish spirituality which is not natural but must be trained. Religion has not always provided spirituality, much like a white coat doesn't provide a PhD, but where else do we learn unselfishness. The more technological a society is, the more bombarded they are with advertisements for technogadgetry, artificial foods, and expensive medicines to replace the nature they've left behind.

[CrimsonWolf]

If more countries follow Iran's example and continue to get nuclear weapons and the US develops it's beam weaponry then Science will end us. Science is a tool, but not the cure. All the science claims of no more disease, eternal life, end of war, and living in space have got nowhere. The reason being that science is trying to solve problems that exist within man himself. Man solving his own problems is about as productive as trying to flap your arms and fly.:lol:

 

Scientists promises are, and always will be, empty. They are just out to get grants for research so they continue to make a living like the rest of us. Most claims on breakthroughs sound good at first, then they just disappear. That is because the person who reported blew the research out of proportion. So you have to take most claims with reason and a grain of salt. :phones:

 

If we didn't have science in the world, people would not to worry but weapons of mass destruction. Religion, Science, and governments for that matter are not the solution to world problems. Each of them brings problems with the good things. People are the problem. Humans have made their own messes do to one basic reason. No love. If you love then you would not cause pain to others, murder, pollute, and many other negative things. Sadly humans do not love enough, but just love what suits us and selfish ignore the rest.

 

Governments however will soon be eager to let science try to fix things and eventually cast blame on Religion. Which is really a desperate attempt of government trying to patch things and avoid people pointing the finger back at the government. Desperate times call for desperate measures those in power will reason.

 

Speaking from the Bibles point of view, it speaks of Jehovah God "putting to ruin those ruining the Earth." Plus it speaks of him protecting his holy people from attack, especially in the Judgement Day. So many people keep thinking doomsday for Earth's destruction. Does it really make sense that a loving God would destroy the Earth that he made for Humans in the first place? Of coarse not! He is out to destroy wicked people and the governments that are making life miserable. After the Eden rebellion God has allowed man a chance to govern himself to prove once for all beyond a shadow of doubt that man is incapable of even directing his own step. Every political system has been tried. None of them bring any lasting benefit. The Bible directs to Judgement of the wicked and then having one government headed by Christ as a king over Earthly subjects in paradise world for 1,000 years. With death, disease, and ailments gone. No more old age either. Quite a contrast to current government promise.

 

Of coarse if one does not believe the Bible then that promise may not seem real. Well whatever the readers personal views are think we can at least agree on one thing. The world is at critical stage right in it's history. Some sort of change is starting to happen. The last hundred years have accelerated mans development. Some good things have come. But overall most people still suffer from the same old problems. Religion's fall or rise, each will have his opinion. I submit to the readers that if things are desperate enough then the governments will move against organized religion as they already done in the past. The difference now with a United Nations is this could happen on global scale.

[lindagarrette]

My theory is that humans simply needed a crutch to survive their first toddling steps of civilization. Now that we have advanced farther in Science, we can shirk the support of Religion and move on. Imagine what early life would be without Religion. It actually helped some people, despite the acts that were carried out because of it, too.

 

We don't need it anymore, though. Science is paving the way.

Most modern religions provide people with some expectation for life after death, usually in the form of reward for devotion to the belief system. I think it all got started in primitive times in attempt to make sense of dreams, visions of dead relatives, for example. Humans are pattern seekers. We try to make sense of what we don't understand by weaving a story around it -- the crutch, if you will. Fortunately, as you so astutely pointed out, science is the solution. Only, until everyone understands the scientific method, religion will be with us.

[questor]

let's assume that all religion was eliminated from the world tomorrow. how will this improve the world? would our morality be stronger? would our laws be more just? would men become more peaceful? would we have better societal mores? with all the warts of man's barbaric practices in the name of religion, who thinks that the removal or religion would change man's nature for the better? do some here think that science makes better people? that maybe there are no criminal scientists, and scientists have a more pure life? is there proof of this? Dr. Mengele was a scientist

[Southtown]

Ya, good questions questor. I'd be curious to hear the answers to them.

 

I hear statements like linda's all the time. If I were to guess, I'd say there's a school of thought apparently that claims all war, poverty, and disease is caused by religion. Why else would they be concerned about what people believe? If so, I think they fail to realize the limitations of knowledge.

 

Even if we understand everything, we still have the free will to be either good or bad to each other. The problem is that some people just aren't interested in the greater good. The only way to ensure peace is to revoke free will.

[Buffy]

Well, I hardly think that the only alternative to an extreme religious view is an extreme non-religious view. Its an interesting academic argument, but its pretty meaningless to those folks who live in the real world.

 

Two points:

• If there is a God who is non-interventionist--as many faiths including many Christian sects believe--then faith can still provide a mechanism for supporting a belief system of morals. This would be a world in which many of you would find horrific signs of end times, but it would still work fine for most folks.
  
• Even if there is no God and no belief in one, there is an argument--which has been expounded upon elsewhere in these forums--that morality is a natural sociological evolutionary step: it may not even be always supported by a "religion" as such, or may be a "religion" that is totally "humanistic." If there are no "morals" or agreed upon laws of behavior between animals in a group, there will be no society and no advancement of culture period. Its arguable that most sophisticated species have a "moral code" but do they have a religion? When you consider this, its only possible to say religion is a requirement if you have complete faith in the Bible's interpretation that animals are somehow special because they did not commit the Original Sin. I know that you two do believe this personally, but we're talking about how folks who may have other religious beliefs may ponder this.

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[CrimsonWolf]

The world would not be better without religion. I think lack of it would cause people to sink new levels of immoral behavior given enough time. Religion hardly keeps people in check as it is. Imagine people without restrait at all. Ugly thought.

[Buffy]

The world would not be better without religion. I think lack of it would cause people to sink new levels of immoral behavior given enough time. Religion hardly keeps people in check as it is. Imagine people without restrait at all. Ugly thought.

Red: Can you take a moment to think about the points in my previous post and comment? Can you explain why many people who are not religious act morally? Or do you believe that people become immoral as soon as they choose not to have a religious faith? Why do you believe that people would be "without restraint" without a religious faith?

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[Guest Mace Sin]

let's assume that all religion was eliminated from the world tomorrow. how will this improve the world? would our morality be stronger? would our laws be more just? would men become more peaceful? would we have better societal mores? with all the warts of man's barbaric practices in the name of religion, who thinks that the removal or religion would change man's nature for the better? do some here think that science makes better people? that maybe there are no criminal scientists, and scientists have a more pure life? is there proof of this? Dr. Mengele was a scientist

 

That's what scares me. There are too many people who rely on Religion. If it was completely abolished, humanity would collapse to chaos without ethics and value of life support. Therefore, with religious attendance slowly decreasing, it's better for the people who are attempting to make sense of ethics without religion.

 

You're hitting the nail with your questions, questor.

[TheBigDog]

RedDog, you the only way to have a world free of organized religion is through a global athiest dictatorship. Do you have one in mind? Is that your evidence of this impending event? Do you see someting happening that I do not? Can you site any examples of this happening?

 

Bill

[CrimsonWolf]

Red: Can you take a moment to think about the points in my previous post and comment? Can you explain why many people who are not religious act morally? Or do you believe that people become immoral as soon as they choose not to have a religious faith? Why do you believe that people would be "without restraint" without a religious faith?

 

Cheers,

Buffy

 

Well in nut shell we all have a conscience. However our experiences and discipline determine it's overall influence over our mind and actions. So it is possible up to a certain point a person could act morally on their own. But morals extends to beyond just behavior. Many so called moral people still are not moral when compared to some religious standards and sometimes vice verso. Without a religion to remind people of moral standards that apply to everyone then it's possible for morals in question to be dictated simply but what is socially acceptable or what the moment demands. For example many people followed the Nazi ideals almost blindly, doing what seemed right at the particular time to them. What of people that think killing or sex without marriage is ok under certain circumstances? Think of the problems that result of different values and feelings on such matters? Religion has helped to write down laws and morals in the first place. Without those founding principles do you think non religious people would even have morals? Based on what? Instinct? They learned their values from people around them who often can trace the morals back to religion in the first place.

 

The point is without religion some people may or may not have a sense of morals. However without religion the morals are left to individual instincts and interpretation. Less defined morals results in good and bad lines blurring a bit. People not living up to religious morals are often a result of blind faith or lack of faith. My experience is that the human heart is quite treacherous left to it's own. Without moral training your heart can have unhealthy desires that can lead to problems of all types.

[CrimsonWolf]

RedDog, you the only way to have a world free of organized religion is through a global atheist dictatorship. Do you have one in mind? Is that your evidence of this impending event? Do you see something happening that I do not? Can you site any examples of this happening?

 

Bill

 

I propose that a political shift will occur on a global scale. It's quite possible that personal freedoms we enjoy now in some places could be revoked with the promise of peace and security. The change will occur in the United Nations collectively and then be enforced globally. Hard to say what the final trigger needed will be. More terrorism? World War III? Civil Uprising?

 

Any thoughts?

[TheBigDog]

I propose that a political shift will occur on a global scale. It's quite possible that personal freedoms we enjoy now in some places could be revoked with the promise of peace and security. The change will occur in the United Nations collectively and then be enforced globally. Hard to say what the final trigger needed will be. More terrorism? World War III? Civil Uprising?

 

Any thoughts?

Yes, I have some thoughts...

 

1) You have no historical evidence to support your hypothesis of organized religion being dismantled on a global scale.

2) You have no current events that would support you hypothesis

3) I have been trapped in a Monty Python skit. RedDog playing the part of both Michael Palin and John Clease. Everyone who participates at first thinks something productive is happening, and then realizes that there is some sort of argument going on. But as they begin to see the detail they realize there is no logic - just making contrary claims or proposing wild unsupported hypotheticals to whatever is stated, and offering no evidence.

 

I am a big fan of the Pythons, but I am silly walking my way to another thread. Anyone care for a fish slapping dance?

 

Bill

[Guest jamongo]

One of my favorite quotes:

 

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Steven Weinberg, winner of the 1979 Nobel Prize in physics

 

I wonder how many times it has been used....... in how many discussions...?:lol:

[CrimsonWolf]

Ah but I have learned much from the responses, as much as I can for the moment. The information I sought has been achieved. Thanks for all who commented. I am leaving this particular thread now as it has served the purpose I sought. Thanks again.

[sergey500]

Well of course religion is disappearing! Science is knowledge, it is absolute logic. It is what the human mind does naturally, assumes things through logic. It is enitable (sp?) you can't escape knowledge, doesn't matter how ignorant you are.

 

Dan Brown, a thriller author, once wrote in his book, I believe it was Angels and Demons, that science and religion are two different languages searching for the same truth. It is just so happens that people prefer the language of Science. I mean look how far it made us advance (even so closer to our demise), yet look what religion done? Nothing. lets go into middle ages, it was called the dark ages for a reason, because nothing happened. Religion didn't let anything happen and human race was in stand still. But with science we prograss and the rest of the world noticed that. They see logic in science, not in religion.

 

But you are wrong about one thing. Reilgion is dissapearing, but it will never fully disapear. I don't believe in religion, but I believe in God (well it depends, my opinion sways back and forth, at the moment it believing). But even if God didn't exist, in a way he will always exist, how so? For as long as someone believe in sort of God, that thought will exist in someones mind, therefore someone will still have God, someone has created or kept alive the God. Same goes for religion, it will never fully die, at least someone will believe in it, in a reilgion that they choose and want. Or maybe people stopped going church because they're prayers arent' answersd (like hell some suprerior being would answer 6.5 billion prayers weekly) or because they fail to see any sign of their believes.

 

Besides if what above is not true, then there is one last explantion why people take science side. It for the lazy. Technology is all we need to make our lives easier and better, reiglion (most of it, like pegan) forbids it. So we like to go with thing that work best for us. In this case technology.

[Inter.spem.et.metum]

The new age of religion is arising, and not among the common person, but amongst the youth. The religions are actually molding along with science. All religions come from the same source, expressing themes of the human condition in existance. They all have the same message but are interpreted differently. If one takes a more scientific approach, using the different religious scriptures metaphors to use as maps instructing us how to live, and assuming that the supernatural characteristics of God and the afterlife aren't so supernatural but simply oversimplified descriptions of energy and the forces that bind everything, there is no reason not to believe in both.

 

It only fails when people are ignorant. It seems that many who refuse religion in its entirety do so without any effort. It is just easier to say it doesn't exist, or that it is the cause of all the world's conflict. There are truths in all things. Quotes with weight can be thrown around by us all. Humans will harm each other no matter what.