Freethinker Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by: wisdumnthe funniest thing about religion or science is that whichever one you follow, both paths will lead you to the ultimate question, " what was before this universe and us? " religion may lead you to God but science does it alsoThis was exactly how we got to this point in the discusion. And it is all lies! We have seen that the bible is useless as a source of factual info. It can't even get it's superhero's birth info even close to correct. Much less be consistant about what it does GET WRONG! And you have yet to show ANY proof that science leads us to ANY god myth! Further, Science rejects even an attempt at " what was before this universe and us? " the same as it would reject an equally invalid question of What is north of the north pole?because God already knew people would come questioning with their intelligence so He dead ended the roadAh yes, the loving god that intentionally lies to us so he can punish us for all of eternity.and that handfull of supposed God followers that do not live like they're supposed to( i.e. loving your neighbor, being charitable,not judging others, etc.)You mean the majority of historical Christer authorities. The one's that follow the biblical tenets you selectively ignore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdumn Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 my point about using billy the kid as a comparison was to show that accuracy of birthdays was not accurate for many centuries, i mean, look at the difference in social advance from the time Jesus existed to the time billy the kid existed, people supposed billy the kid's birthday within about a year ofhis actual birthdate(never for sure known.)you FT claim that people are saying Jesus's birthdayhappened atsome pointin a 5 yr. span. If this is a true statement that is still pretty good for a guy that lived APPROXIMATELY between 1500-1700 years before billy the kid and who came from a small town in the desert who was raised by a carpenter. but since the birth of Jesus is such a fallocy to you then maybe you could tell us all exactly the day Napolean was born, or maybe Aristotle, or how about Christopher Columbus, i mean surely there must be records of the exact birthday and year that these famous peole were born elsewise they might just be myths and never really accomplished anything in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdumn Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 ....also FT you claim that "Science rejects even an attempt at: what was before this universe and us?"sorry friend to disagree but i have plenty of proof in store that while YOU! may not make that attempt, PLENTYYY----- of scientists have applied the scientific method to trying to figure that out. you atheists are SO FUNNY at your attempts to explain things with your many theories, you guys have more theories than there are world religions, only problem is you can't decide which one is the right one which leaves us with a thought from wisdumn's future book of philosophy and my current SIG: " The path to Confusion is paved with Options" --go 'head, keep opting out for confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Originally posted by: wisdumnmy point about using billy the kid as a comparison was to show that accuracy of birthdays was not accurate for many centuries,And it failed miserably. It is always very funny to watch Christers squirm while trying to pretend that their man/god should not be given any more critical of an evaluation for historical accuracy than any number of historical curiousities on some issues. Yet want to claim the reference source they use is the completely perfect word of an all powerful god for everything else. As if stories of Billy the Kid (Napolean, Aristotle, Christopher Columbus) all come from the perfect word of an all powerful god! you FT claim that people are saying Jesus's birthday happened at some point in a 5 yr. span.No that was NOT what I said. What I said is that there are CONFLICTING dates given in your supposed PERFECT book. And further than specific information given in this joke book is contrary to KNOWN history of the time. IT IS WRONG! But you don't want to have to discuss the ERRORS or CONTRADICTIONS! That would require that you eventually admit being WRONG. It's really simple. Try to stick with it here. PROVE that the biblical Jesus actually existed based on contemporary eyewitness reports. Simple to comprehend, impossible to do! But we'll let you try. This should be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Originally posted by: wisdumn....also FT you claim that "Science rejects even an attempt at: what was before this universe and us?"sorry friend to disagree but i have plenty of proof in store that while YOU! may not make that attempt, PLENTYYY----- of scientists have applied the scientific method to trying to figure that out.Great if you have "plenty of proof... of scientists hav(ing) applied the scientific method to trying to figure that out", you won't have any trouble providing some! Let's see some!you atheists are SO FUNNY at your attempts to explain things with your many theories,Don't ya love the attempts at ad homenums? Science is obviously ONLY held by "you atheists". You are obviously too educated to accept ANY of those Atheistic Theories like Relativity (General and Special), Gravity, DNA, vaccinations, ...you can't decide which one is the right oneLet me help here EVOLUTION - RIGHT Creation - WRONG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdumn Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 at least i know what i personally believe, you've spent so long in the world of MANY theories that you are lost in one hole after another hole after another- BB, no wait, abiogenesis, no wait, expanding universe, no i mean.. i mean.. i mean.. what does FT mean? you keep wanting to drag me into a Biblical debate so in the next couple o' days i'll start a thread to where we can, since that's your completely obvious desperate cry, the whole time i've as much as possible tried to use as much regular argument based on logic, and reason but it's clear now that all you want is to have a Biblical debate with me so you can prove me wrong. you asked for it and if you're patient for the next couple of days, believe, ya' gonna' get what ya' asked for just like it says in Matthew 7:7-8 "ask and it will be given to you,seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you, for everyone who asks receives, he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks the door will be opened" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Ah yes, once more we find that when specific questions are asked, when proof is required.... RED HERRING ALERT! NO ANSWER! CHANGE THE SUBJECT!Originally posted by: wisdumnat least i know what i personally believe,Then why have you been completely unable to supply even the first shred of support for any of it? you've spent so long in the world of MANY theories that you are lost in one hole after another hole after another- BB, no wait, abiogenesis, no wait, expanding universe, no i mean.. i mean.. i mean.. what does FT mean?Is it really not completely obvious to you? Anyone that would even begin to claim that "BB, abiogenesis, expanding universe, ..." are in anyway competeing or contradictory only shows that they are ignorant of all of them. you keep wanting to drag me into a Biblical debateLet's see, who here wants to claim Jesus? Oh ya, that was YOU! So let's discuss the biblical Jesus without using the bible! In fact *I* was the one that asked exactly that! Originally posted by: FreethinkerPROVE that the biblical Jesus actually existed based on contemporary eyewitness reports. And thanks for keeping the bible out of the discussion Matthew 7:7-8 "ask and it will be given to you,seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you, for everyone who asks receives, he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks the door will be opened" Which of course is contradicted by: 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdumn Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 you're right, you're right, we're definitely straying from topic, so creating a religion huh? well first off, to create a religion you have to have some beliefs about things, spiritual things. some people don't have spirtuality in their life and hence forth have no religion, they have more of an anti religion which to me is still religion because they classify their general beliefs about why they don't believe in spiritual things but never the less their non-beliefs still have to dowith spirituality even though it be a non-belief about spirituality, hence, a non-spiritual religion. this is how i would describe science, a religion based in 5 senses style facts because in the science religion there is only what can be tasted, touched,smelled, seen, or heard, there is no feeling out in science, it is simply 5 senses evidence or it isn't true, so really it's just one more religion saying the others are not true because they add an agent of "feeling" through things as sort of a 6th sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 WOW, I am still dizzy from the circles that last post had! Religions need spiritual things they believe, don't beleive, don't have spirtitual things because they don't believe in spirits they believe in that are spirtual, non-spiritual, ... One thing to correct though. Religion does not ADD a sense (6th sense), it IGNORES the 0ther 5 and relies on one that doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdumn Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Originally posted by: FreethinkerWOW, I am still dizzy from the circles that last post had! Religions need spiritual things they believe, don't beleive, don't have spirtitual things because they don't believe in spirits they believe in that are spirtual, non-spiritual,... One thing to correct though. Religion does not ADD a sense (6th sense), it IGNORES the 0ther 5 and relies on one that doesn't exist. 1st sense: touch- i touch the wind but i do not see it2nd sense: sight- i see what is around me and it makes me wonder, why, when, how, where did this all come from3rd sense: taste- i taste fruits, vegetables,and all the enoyable things of nature and wonder, why,when, how, where did these things come from 4th sense: smell- i can smell the fragrance of trees and flowers. why, when,.......5th sense: hearing- i hear thunder, i hear the wind that i'm able to touch but not see as it wispers by me and i wonder, why , when,.......... 6ht sense: FAITH- from logical deduction and probabilities, my brain uses my other 5 senses todeduce that their is much more reason to believe in a creationrather than to faithfully believe in dead substance thatis still not forming life. the reason you're dizzy is because you spent alot of time mis-quoting what i said because your religion deems it good to mis-quote people when you are dumbfounded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by: wisdumn1st sense: touch- i touch the wind but i do not see itI always get a kick out of the mindless platitudes that believers think actually mean something. Much less that they think it actually PROVES something! Well the "wind" is movement of our atmosphere and if you aren't aware of the FACT that you CAN see the atmosphere, there is way too much for us to teach you here! 2nd sense: sight- i see what is around me and it makes me wonder, why, when, how, where did this all come fromAnd someone that wants factual answers NEVER accepts a god of the gaps answer. We use SCIENCE to find REAL answers!3rd sense: taste- i taste fruits, vegetables,and all the enoyable things of nature and wonder, why,when, how, where did these things come fromAhhhh, a garden or farm... the hard work of HUMANS! -------Traveller: God has been mighty good to your fields, Mr. Farmer.Farmer: You should have seen how he treated them when I wasn't around. -------4th sense: smell- i can smell the fragrance of trees and flowers. why, when,.......Swamp gas....5th sense: hearing- i hear thunder, i hear the wind that i'm able to touch but not see as it wispers by me and i wonder, why , when,..........AH! I've got it figured out! OPEN YOUR EYES! And OH ya, the god Thor is the reason for the thunder! PROVE I am wrong! 6ht sense: FAITH- from logical deduction and probabilities, my brain uses my other 5 senses to deduce that their is much more reason to believe in a creationSorry, but I do not know if there is medication for that or not. BAD thinking is a matter orf education, not physiology. the reason you're dizzy is because you spent alot of time mis-quoting what i said because your religion deems it good to mis-quote people when you are dumbfoundedThis is what I call the "misery loves company" fallacy. It stems from someone realizing they are addicted to something and want to think that therefore everyone else is. Some of us have factual proof for our philosophies and have no need for faith based religious nonsense. 6ht sense: FAITHI guess my 5, the ReAl ones, are all I need thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Originally posted by: wisdumn1st sense: touch- i touch the wind but i do not see itBut do you know what this tells us more than anything else? Did this answer the question which Da Wiz has been asked directly time after time. That Da Wiz has lied about having naswers to. The question that Da Wiz is so obviously doing everything they can to NOT answer, or even acknowledge? 08/24/2004 08:16 PMOriginally posted by: FreethinkerShow us ANYTHING in Christianity that has been PROVEN to have that predictablity. And if you think you can start with predictions claimed for it's Jesus, we'll see if they are really predictions. 08/25/2004 07:31 AMOriginally posted by: FreethinkerOriginally posted by: wisdumnscience, (the facts religion) ...He left just enough scientific cookie crumbs for the intelligent scientist to find Him, Give us ONE from the myth of Jesus birth! Originally posted by: wisdumnThe funniest thing about religion or science is that whichever one you follow, both paths will lead you to the ultimate question, " what was before this universe and us? " religion may lead you to God but science does it also 08/30/2004 11:41 AMOriginally posted by: FreethinkerIt's really simple. Try to stick with it here. PROVE that the biblical Jesus actually existed based on contemporary eyewitness reports. 08/30/2004 12:49 PMOriginally posted by: FreethinkerAh yes, once more we find that when specific questions are asked, when proof is required.... Originally posted by: wisdumnat least i know what i personally believe,Then why have you been completely unable to supply even the first shred of support for any of it? Originally posted by: FreethinkerPROVE that the biblical Jesus actually existed based on contemporary eyewitness reports. So answer the question. Can you PROVE that the biblical Jesus actually existed based on contemporary eyewitness reports? Either provide verifyable proof or have the intellectual integrety to admit you can't. There is nothing wrong with admitting you don't have anything tp support your claims and therefore admit error. There is something wrong with lying and saying you do have the proof when you don't. It's known as being pathological. You ultimately fool only yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Hey Da Wiz! This is the thread you are supposed to be posting the Jesus proofs on. Let me repeat the question so you don't get confused! Can you PROVE that the biblical Jesus actually existed based on contemporary eyewitness reports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdumn Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 your answer is waiting in the books section. personal thought about you, i think you're a very angry person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Martin Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Personal thought about you wiz,.... well,... on second thought that would get ME banned. Better to just leave that one to your imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Originally posted by: wisdumnyour answer is waiting in the books section. More lies. There is not a single contemporary eyewitness given to support your claims. NOT ONE! Just another excuse as to why you have FAILED COMPELTELY to do so. So on this site you want to hide from your failure by saying it is on another thread! Originally posted by: FreethinkerHey Da Wiz! This is the thread you are supposed to be posting the Jesus proofs on. Let me repeat the question so you don't get confused! Can you PROVE that the biblical Jesus actually existed based on contemporary eyewitness reports? personal thought about you, i think you're a very angry person.Quite angry. I get angered that so many of you are so willing to outright lie like this constantly and see how society is being destroyed by these continued lies. Christians seem to have no compunction whatsoever against lying. But then your entire religion is based on lies. Where would there by any suprise in it's followers, following suit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiva Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 The task indeed is transcending religion without creating another.Every day people change their beliefs and transfer their religion to their new belief system. In our world religion has permeated all aspects of our societies. Only a higher level of consciousness transcends, this lower level of consciousness called religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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