Science or Religion

[NORMANBOND007]

Is Science the answer to how we are here and does it tell us why we are here? or Could it be that Religion is the answer of how and why are we here?

[Calminian]

Is Science the answer to how we are here and does it tell us why we are here? or Could it be that Religion is the answer of how and why are we here?

 

I'm not a scientist but I know from scientists that scientific investigation is only useful in studying natural processes. If a supernatural God actually created this world via miracles (additions to natural processes) then scientific investigation will not be an effective tool (at least by itself) in discerning that truth. Science does not prove naturalism, it merely assumes naturalism because it must. Now in the christian wolrdview miracles (additions to natural processes) are very rare events and therefore christians consider science a very valuable tool. But they also see it's limits when delving into areas such as origins.

[kamil]

Is Science the answer to how we are here and does it tell us why we are here? or Could it be that Religion is the answer of how and why are we here?

First off all, god created the universe and all its physical properties. Now humans are investigating these physical properties. So how can science and god be in contradiction.

I hate it when people only believe in one and think the other is wrong :hihi:

[Calminian]

First off all, god created the universe and all its physical properties.

 

I agree.

 

Now humans are investigating these physical properties. So how can science and god be in contradiction.

 

All scientific investigation is conducted under the assumptions of naturalism. That is to say for a scientist to speculate about the past, he must assume there have been no additions to natural processes. This is not to say that science and God contradict. It merely means that science can neither verify nor falsify a miracle. All scientists agree with this. The conflict is not between science and God, but between the starting presuppositions about what God may or may not have done in the beginning.

 

I hate it when people only believe in one and think the other is wrong ;)

 

I do too. But I hate it more when people think science proves their naturalistic assumptions. :hihi:

[UncleAl]

Is Science the answer to how we are here and does it tell us why we are here? or Could it be that Religion is the answer of how and why are we here?

 

1) There is no "why."

2) Pray on a light bulb. (If you may substitute a fluorescent lamp, sodium vapor lamp, light-emitting diode, electroluminescent panel, argon short arc lamp, microwave-pumped sulfur lamp... pray until you see the light. We'll wait.)

 

Hindus have 36 crores of gods - that's 360 million deities. How is India doing? Hint: the whole of India has fewer flush toilets than the US state of Colorado.

[Calminian]

1) There is no "why."

 

Please clarify this Uncle Al. Are you saying science can't tell us about whys or that our existence itself has no purpose?

 

If the latter do you think science has proven this?

 

Hindus have 36 crores of gods - that's 360 million deities. How is India doing? Hint: the whole of India has fewer flush toilets than the US state of Colorado.

 

I'd like to offer some perspective on this. Yes what you say above is true. Now lets look at nations that have been dominate by godless philosophies. Where would you rather live, in India or under a communist regime like the one in N. Korea? Hitler and Stalin were devout evolutionists. Communism was built on atheism and more were murdered by this movement than by all the religious wars of history. It's true, religions and religious people can even do evil. Evil has indeed been done in the name of christianity. But by far the most evil societies are those based on atheism. You merely need to check the guinness book of world records to confirm this.

[rockytriton]

Science searches for the answer to "how" we are here, regligion is the search for the answer to "why" we are here. Unfortuntely there is nothing scientific about religion so most of it is just blind belief in what your parents told you and your parents' parents told them.

[rockytriton]

The bible is a bunch of stories (at least the beginning of it is), which are really just there for people to scare their kids into being good. Sure the writers of it probably had ideas of how they thought things really were, but I don't think anyone actually takes stories like Adam&Eve or Noah's Ark seriously, well maybe except those wacky baptists. I don't think that anyone could really truly believe that they know for sure who/what created everything, they could believe that they think they know, but it's just plain stupidity or arrogance to believe that you know the true answers to these questions.

[Calminian]

However, if ever there exists contradictions over science and religion - it has to be religion (interpretation) that is wrong because nature does not lie.

 

I disagree with this. Scientist have changed their minds on many issues over the years and scientists disagree about many things now. Sure there is a majority opinion, but it has often been the case the majority has been wrong. The truth is, both nature and the Bible have to be interpreted.

 

And while nature does not lie it can be misinterpreted. Scientists have been wrong about all kinds of things over the years. One scientist told me (actually several), yesterday's science books are today's joke books.

 

Another problem is the issue of miracles. According to the Bible we have a supernatural God who has performed many miracles (defined as additions to natural processes). Some of these affected the entire universe and some at least the entire earth. If true this would cause problems for those using the scientific method to speculate about the past, as they would be starting with a false presupposition (naturalism).

[IrishEyes]

...but I don't think anyone actually takes stories like Adam&Eve or Noah's Ark seriously, well maybe except those wacky baptists...

Well, here I am, a wacky Baptist about whom you can laugh. Yes, I believe the Bible. And yes, I do take those stories seriously. Sounds pretty crazy, I'm sure. But checking the evidences on both sides of the fence has brought me to the conclusion that denying God, and all his wacky stories, is really not something I want to do.

[rockytriton]

I wasn't denying God, I was denying the wacky stories which aren't his, they are man's wacky stories. What is this evidence that you have seen on the Adam & Eve story anyway?

[Guadalupe]

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." ~Albert Einstein ;)

[catholiboy]

The sad truth...

Science and religion are, in some fields, totally mutually incompatible. It doesn't take a multitude of brains to work this out. Equally, it is not possible (as Kant said) to have complete knowledge...think phenomena and noumena. We are a sad limit to the possibility of knowing everything.

However, this paradoxically makes us draw the conclusion that we must treat science and religion equally...even if it means separating them absolutely...

So basically, it is not a case of science or religion. It is a case of: "How do I define knowledge?" or "Noumena or phenomena?"

And yes, with noumena strict doctrine may not be the answer...but then, technically nothing is in an unknowable field.

I'm hoping someone will point out the exception to this rule...

[Tagred]

I'd like to offer some perspective on this. Yes what you say above is true. Now lets look at nations that have been dominate by godless philosophies. Where would you rather live, in India or under a communist regime like the one in N. Korea? Hitler and Stalin were devout evolutionists. Communism was built on atheism and more were murdered by this movement than by all the religious wars of history. It's true, religions and religious people can even do evil. Evil has indeed been done in the name of christianity. But by far the most evil societies are those based on atheism. You merely need to check the guinness book of world records to confirm this.

Actually Hitler had stated many times in his speeches that he was a Christian, and that he believed in God. Whether that was just rhetoric or not is arguable.

 

Please point out where in the guinness book of records it shows number of dead caused by atheism and number of dead caused by religion.

 

How many godless philosophical countries are there?

 

Lets take a look at just a tiny bit of what religion has done in murdering people.

 

In india, 4 million people were killed precisely because of religious divide

 

Islam - need we say any more about the twin towers, or about the moors, or what about the Ottoman empire

 

What about christianity - holy roman empire, spanish & italian inquisitions, crusades, the killing of doctors who perform abortions, salem witch trials.

 

What about jews, when told to take over some cities, told to utterly destroy them and everyone inside including women and children early in their history (if the bible is to be believed)

 

Where does the moralisation come then? Stalin done that because he was godless? What about those who do that because they have a god?

 

The whole concept of good and evil has nothing to do with religion, we don't need any scriptures to define what is good or bad, we can be atheists and still be moral and ethical, religion is not a path to good, nor does (especially the bible) teach much difference in good or bad. Indeed, if you need a handbook in to practising genocide, how to commit rape, destroy cities, vilify those who dont believe the same as you, then the bible has it in spades.

 

It is because of peoples faith in religion that so many attrocities have happened and will continue. People do evil things because they believe in their religion and think that the scriptures tell them. So the argument that people are bad because they are atheist is utterly wrong. Im an atheist and evolutionist and proud of it, yet i have no compunction to murder, i help people.

 

The notion of good and bad is a consequence of the evolutionary process not religion.

[Freddy]

Hitler was a Christian, perhaps not like the average Catholic or Protestant. Hitler used Christian symbols in his Reich's Church, but Hitler was pictured as the new Christ. Any German Christian who preached against Hitler or his church doctrine was sent to a concentration camp where there was a special barracks for dissenting clergy.

[catholiboy]

Actually Hitler had stated many times in his speeches that he was a Christian, and that he believed in God. Whether that was just rhetoric or not is arguable.

 

Please point out where in the guinness book of records it shows number of dead caused by atheism and number of dead caused by religion.

 

How many godless philosophical countries are there?

 

Lets take a look at just a tiny bit of what religion has done in murdering people.

 

In india, 4 million people were killed precisely because of religious divide

 

Islam - need we say any more about the twin towers, or about the moors, or what about the Ottoman empire

 

What about christianity - holy roman empire, spanish & italian inquisitions, crusades, the killing of doctors who perform abortions, salem witch trials.

 

What about jews, when told to take over some cities, told to utterly destroy them and everyone inside including women and children early in their history (if the bible is to be believed)

 

Where does the moralisation come then? Stalin done that because he was godless? What about those who do that because they have a god?

 

The whole concept of good and evil has nothing to do with religion, we don't need any scriptures to define what is good or bad, we can be atheists and still be moral and ethical, religion is not a path to good, nor does (especially the bible) teach much difference in good or bad. Indeed, if you need a handbook in to practising genocide, how to commit rape, destroy cities, vilify those who dont believe the same as you, then the bible has it in spades.

 

It is because of peoples faith in religion that so many attrocities have happened and will continue. People do evil things because they believe in their religion and think that the scriptures tell them. So the argument that people are bad because they are atheist is utterly wrong. Im an atheist and evolutionist and proud of it, yet i have no compunction to murder, i help people.

 

The notion of good and bad is a consequence of the evolutionary process not religion.

 

OK, but I'd like to ask why this could possibly lead you to not believe in GOD. THERE ARE BILLIONS of other wayus of believing in a deity, not all of them involving hardline doctrine.

Rousseau says: "Nothing so masks the face of God as religion." But this doesn't have to mean that God doesn't exist.

 

Twin Towers? You ACTUALLY THINK that those attacks were really anything to do with religion? That's the excuse, but it was really just a political statement against the West.

[Tagred]

Why this leads me to say there is no god, is because there is a mountain of evidence to say there isnt one. We dont need a god, that is a creation of man, without man there is no god. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to say there is a god.

 

The attack on the twin towers was precisely because of religion. Indeed you can read many passages in the bible that says similar things to islam, to totally destroy anything that does not conform to the will of this so called god.

 

The bible tells christians to kill, to allow women to be raped, practice infanticide, and torture. Again, the notion that good or bad is down to a religious belief is a falacy.

 

Our notion of good and bad is from the evolutionary process that has nothing to do with a deity.

 

Interstingly, the top countries reported by the UN to have the best standard and quality of life are those that are secular or indeed atheistic in tone, such as Norway and Sweden. Again i think an earlier poster's view that "godless" societies are predisposed to evil is wrong.

 

You dont need god or religion to be good, god is unimportant as a guide for moral standards, since the bible very often teaches the opposite. This thing simply doesnt exist.