Hydroponic Plants: Tips, Suggestions, and Techniques?

[maikeru]

A few weeks ago, I set up a very simple, but inexpensive partial/pseudo-hydroponics setup in my indoor garden room for the production of salad greens. I haven't experimented much with hydroponics except when I was a kid growing bean and daikon sprouts for salads. I have noticed some difficulties, like poor seedling germination rates and slower than expected growth. So far, it's not proven anywhere as productive as my garden or biochar plant pots, and that's disappointing...

 

Here's my current setup:

 

--Plastic container to hold a few inches of water

--4 small terra cotta containers per plastic container

--Using potting soil as growth medium

--Mycogrow compost tea given to plants (I keep a bottle of this brewing all the time now)

 

The terra cotta pots allow for air flow to the roots through their pores in the ceramic, hold the growth medium in place, and also wick moisture up so the soil never dries out. Have already proven this in practice. I don't feel like buying a pump or airstone for what is a small hydroponic thing meant to fit on a windowsill. I'm trying to keep this simple.

 

Trying to grow the following: kale, spinach, and swiss chards

 

However, I'm thinking of modifying the setup to this:

 

--Growth medium of chunk charcoal + perlite or 50/50 charcoal + potting soil

--Fertilizing with a diluted solution of blackstrap molasses to supply macronutrients like iron and magnesium

 

I have a few questions. Can you think of any other greens or small plants that would be great to grow hydroponically? And would current setup be better or do the modifications in mind have merit?

 

Don't want to use straight perlite because it cannot retain nutrients sufficiently and I am not using a nutrient solution as many hydroponic growers are doing, so I would like the growth medium to have some ability to buffer and store nutrients.

 

Any other suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

[Getting A Life]

Soil is no good as a hydro medium. it stays wet and promotes pythium and other undesirable organisms to proliferate. Many of these problem organisms are not present in hydro media. Air is critical, saturated medium systems incorporate high dissolved oxygen levels or ebb and flow designs with wet/dry cycles.

 

Some glomus species of mycorrhizae do well in hydro and will make a difference to your setup, glomus intraradices, glomus mossaea... so the mycogrow is a good choice.

 

Try a TP mix without the soil. Pottery, char, skip the bones...

 

If going organic you want a medium that is porous for microherd to inhabit. Hydroton, clay pottery, char, lava rock....

 

Plants in hydro can create water roots, these will convert to air roots fairly readily. however, they also develop air roots, which DO NOT convert to water roots. Water roots are those roots growing in the zone that is always submerged. Flooding above the water root line causes lysing of cells on air roots and they literally begin to rot. Upshot of this is unless you are using deep water culture or similar methods you should have a system whereby your roots are never submerged above a set level. Soaking is fine, saturation for more than a couple of minutes is not. Also, if your water roots are dried out for several minutes they become air roots, and then you flood them again - more problems.

 

Upshot is you want your water delivery system to be constant, and at consistent levels.

 

Wicking - yes - in soilless medium with lots of gaps for air.

 

Tomatoes love hydro, peppers, watercress, these are easy to grow and the watercress punches well above it's weight as a healthy food. Spinach. Did you know spinach grown organically has decarboxilase on it which breaks down oxalic acid (this compound stops calcium digestion which agreggates to form kidney stones). Conventional spinach only has the oxalic acid present so you have to cook it.

 

Screw the corporate agenda meta-studies - organics is superior.

 

Scuse the rant, hope that helped.

[maikeru]

Soil is no good as a hydro medium. it stays wet and promotes pythium and other undesirable organisms to proliferate. Many of these problem organisms are not present in hydro media. Air is critical, saturated medium systems incorporate high dissolved oxygen levels or ebb and flow designs with wet/dry cycles.

 

Some glomus species of mycorrhizae do well in hydro and will make a difference to your setup, glomus intraradices, glomus mossaea... so the mycogrow is a good choice.

 

Try a TP mix without the soil. Pottery, char, skip the bones...

 

If going organic you want a medium that is porous for microherd to inhabit. Hydroton, clay pottery, char, lava rock....

 

Yes, the swiss chards in soil are doing OK, but not great. Growth is much slower than the ideal, but they seem fat and happy. Spinach seedlings died.

 

Did some reading and it appears what I'm doing is termed "passive hydroponics."

 

Passive hydroponics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Made a second hydroponic setup with a 50/50 perlite + chunk charcoal mix, put in the same seeds, and almost all the spinach and swiss chard seedlings have come up strong, big, and healthy. Charcoal was lightly doped with Miracle Gro fertilizer before addition, so that it did not steal nutrients from the seedlings or retard their growth. Supplied each pot about one teaspoon of MycoGrow compost tea, and may add some more as the seedlings gradually grow bigger. I believe those species of Glomus are present in my MycoGrow, because they sound familiar. I can check this later on Paul Stamets's website. Hope the microbes will like living in the charcoal and perlite. It is looking more promising than my first one.

 

Plants in hydro can create water roots, these will convert to air roots fairly readily. however, they also develop air roots, which DO NOT convert to water roots. Water roots are those roots growing in the zone that is always submerged. Flooding above the water root line causes lysing of cells on air roots and they literally begin to rot. Upshot of this is unless you are using deep water culture or similar methods you should have a system whereby your roots are never submerged above a set level. Soaking is fine, saturation for more than a couple of minutes is not. Also, if your water roots are dried out for several minutes they become air roots, and then you flood them again - more problems.

 

Yes, I'm keeping water levels at only a few cm and air and oxygen flow to the roots should be high because of the porous terra cotta and perlite/charcoal mix.

 

Upshot is you want your water delivery system to be constant, and at consistent levels.

 

Wicking - yes - in soilless medium with lots of gaps for air.

 

Tomatoes love hydro, peppers, watercress, these are easy to grow and the watercress punches well above it's weight as a healthy food. Spinach. Did you know spinach grown organically has decarboxilase on it which breaks down oxalic acid (this compound stops calcium digestion which agreggates to form kidney stones). Conventional spinach only has the oxalic acid present so you have to cook it.

 

Screw the corporate agenda meta-studies - organics is superior.

 

Scuse the rant, hope that helped.

 

Super helpful rant. I love learning more about cool stuff and I tend to write long posts myself. No problem with it at all! :hihi:

 

Yes, I'm trying to be organic as much as possible (if one will forgive the use of Miracle Gro). I'm a big fan of organic and home-grown foods now. And I believe it is ultimately more sustainable. I'm betting my future on this, so I hope I'm making the right choice. :evil:

 

Can you recommend any good books on hydroponics that I could pick up?

[Getting A Life]

Wish I did know some good hydro books. They all deal with chemical nutrients (one's I've seen) and to that end create an expensive to set up and expensive to run system with pollutants as a byproduct. Generally books (imo) commissioned by fertiliser salespeople.

 

Stamets huh. I have all 5 of his books here but have only read 2 so far as school is so demanding. His products have the correct glomus species in them. Amazing mycologist, he is one of my inspirations. Today I found some immature stinkhorn fungi that when pulled apart (look like a puffball at this point) have the whole structure of the adult fungi inside it enveloped in a type of clear gel. Like a snowglobe almost. And, when the skin is broken on them, it turns purple! NEAT!

 

Never seen a bruising reaction so severe in any plant, not even in those mystical fungi.

 

Glad to hear the char/perlite experiment is going well.

 

What I found with hydro over the years is that it appeared to be superior to dirt gardening till I got my soil up to scratch. Now, my hydro efforts are confined to the greenhouse and mainly off season for fresh greensherbs/tomatoes year round. It certainly does help keep my diet ship shape. This is run by recycling pond water plus some liquid seaweed.

 

To fix my soil I used lots of compost, lots of compost tea, seaweed, and patience. You come across to me as someone familiar with soil food web and their work with compost teas. The secret to good tea is good compost (and lots of air ie: 0.4 cfm per gallon).

 

Sorry, went off topic, as you can see I'm a keen dirt gardener now.

 

If you ask specific hydro questions I may be able to help with some of them. :hihi:

[Michaelangelica]

maikeru

Some pics please?

How much did it cost you to set up?

 

Another good thread for our sub-forum Agriculture/horticulture/gardening/indoor plants ? Moderators and other powerful people pls note?

[Ganoderma]

personally i dinf soil to be better unless you got cash to fork out for hydro. i ran one once with tomatoes and bought the better chems, and they grew fast, but they just dont taste the same as good ol in the ground composted plants.

 

i saw some pretty wicked systems in malayasia growing lettuce, they used fairly standard piping with water flowing through. i believe they used small baskets filled with geolite or whatever its called...looks like round lava rock. i used that in my experiments as well (using piping) and it worked good for avoid bacteria/nasties in the roots.

 

the setup seems pretty easy and straightforward when you know what you want to grow, the hardest part, for me anyway, is water quality/nutrition...and ph....water here is like a lemon! once you figure out a nute solution your all green

 

i tried keep fish in the reservoirs, for a future experiment with aquaponics, and found that it works ok, but the plants always had deficiencies, and pretty much still needed additional chemicals which i didnt like....but i never really pursued that very far.

 

here are the lettuce grown there

 

 

also some strawberries they were growing via drip in coco or peat. i used this for a month with some otehr plants, and worked well but salt buildup was an issue....had to be flushed every now and then which is a pain.

[Getting A Life]

Nice - yes, the pond water needs liquid seaweed to grow things efficiently. Others swear by high populations of fish and only add chelated iron for good results. As I am not raising fish to eat the seaweed works well and the fish have plenty of room to enjoy life.

 

I love those strawberry stacks! That's some good space efficiency right there, and with land at such a premium is a very good way of growing in highly populated areas. Vertical gardening is starting to get a lot of press, a building being constructed now in Dubai is basically a skyscraper/garden said to be able to provide food to 27 000 people.

 

Unfortunately my link to this is corrupted, you might find it on google.

[maikeru]

maikeru

Some pics please?

How much did it cost you to set up?

 

Another good thread for our sub-forum Agriculture/horticulture/gardening/indoor plants ? Moderators and other powerful people pls note?

 

Pics in an album:

 

Science Forums - maikeru's Album: Hydroponic Stuff

 

Hey Michaelangelica, sorry it's taken me a little while to get back to this.

 

Update of 2 weeks later...

 

Setup using potting soil: It appears after the terra cotta extracted bio-oils or some type of black oily residue from the soil that is visible on the tops of the containers and the soil microbes had time to adapt and grow, that the Swiss chard seedlings are doing much better. Growth is more what I expected and more robust. Also, there are microbial biofilms coating the sides of the terra cotta containers and plenty of cyanobacteria to be found in the water below. I am not sure which microbes are making up the biofilms, but there are at least a couple different bacterial ones and possibly some fungi that can be distinguished by different colony morphology and colors. Presumably they're from the compost tea. The thin grass-like shoots coming up are some green onion seedlings I sprouted. However, does not seem amenable for spinach. 2nd planting of spinach seeds in those two side pots failed, so that's why they're empty.

 

Setup using 50/50 charcoal and perlite: Has treated the spinach seedlings and germination much more favorably. I think they actually like this one. My Swiss chard in the 50/50 mix germinated well, but after several days the seedlings seemed to weaken and finally all died, leaving only the spinach seedlings going strong. Onion seedlings in the mix also failed to thrive after initial sprouting. This setup also has had compost tea added to it, and it appears that the microbial biofilms growing on the perlite and terra cotta are different. Mostly fungal ones. Dark brown residue on top of the charcoal + perlite is oxidized black tea, which was used to promote healthy germination and avoid damping off. It is not oil or something similar like in the other setup. This setup has been lightly dosed twice with Miracle-Gro fertilizer, mainly to load the charcoal.

 

For a few days, heat and stronger-than-usual sun stressed both setups and seemed to stunt plant growth.

 

I will reseed the empty pots as appropriate, based on what I've seen. Just been a bit lazy. :eek:

 

4 small pots = $3.20 USD

Plastic container = $1.00

Media varies, but the container of charcoal for aquariums cost me $4.00. Perlite I think was $2-3 for a big bag.

[maikeru]

Wish I did know some good hydro books. They all deal with chemical nutrients (one's I've seen) and to that end create an expensive to set up and expensive to run system with pollutants as a byproduct. Generally books (imo) commissioned by fertiliser salespeople.

 

Stamets huh. I have all 5 of his books here but have only read 2 so far as school is so demanding. His products have the correct glomus species in them. Amazing mycologist, he is one of my inspirations. Today I found some immature stinkhorn fungi that when pulled apart (look like a puffball at this point) have the whole structure of the adult fungi inside it enveloped in a type of clear gel. Like a snowglobe almost. And, when the skin is broken on them, it turns purple! NEAT!

 

Never seen a bruising reaction so severe in any plant, not even in those mystical fungi.

 

Glad to hear the char/perlite experiment is going well.

 

What I found with hydro over the years is that it appeared to be superior to dirt gardening till I got my soil up to scratch. Now, my hydro efforts are confined to the greenhouse and mainly off season for fresh greensherbs/tomatoes year round. It certainly does help keep my diet ship shape. This is run by recycling pond water plus some liquid seaweed.

 

To fix my soil I used lots of compost, lots of compost tea, seaweed, and patience. You come across to me as someone familiar with soil food web and their work with compost teas. The secret to good tea is good compost (and lots of air ie: 0.4 cfm per gallon).

 

Sorry, went off topic, as you can see I'm a keen dirt gardener now.

 

If you ask specific hydro questions I may be able to help with some of them.

 

Yeah, I ran across Stamets's site by accident quite a while back, but as soon as I did, I was like Neo and had a "whoa" moment. I think I'll treat myself to a big Christmas present this year, maybe get a few of his books, a few texts on how to do organic farming, orchards, and other horticulture, and a few on soil microbiology that I've found in the libraries but want for my personal use. Take pics of your discoveries and share them if you would. You're also aware that some types of fungi are bioluminescent, right?

 

El extraño fenómeno de los hongos que brillan en Japón | El Rincón del Misterio

 

Soooo cooooool.

 

Fungi are still something relatively new for me. I've been trying to hunt down books on mycorrhizae in the uni library, but I'm mostly coming across old stuff (monographs and texts written back in the '60s to '80s), and you know that just doesn't fly in science. Sci moves way too fast.

 

Just slightly familiar with the soil food web. I need and want a better understanding of it. We covered it briefly in a few of my old microbiology classes, and mostly in relation to N-fixation or antibiotics. I've gathered a little more from digging on the net, reading sites, and reading papers and what organic growers are up to. It's like I'm always getting a few new pieces of this gigantic puzzle.

 

Seaweed is an excellent fertilizer and soil amendment. I've made my own seaweed fertilizer before and it has surprising results. Plants love that stuff.

[Getting A Life]

Mycorrhizal fungi is a difficult field to learn about here as well. Many species have not had their fruiting bodies identified and growing them without hosts is proving nigh on impossible in many cases. Only some double as free living saprobes.

 

But, they are a crucial part of the picture. Big trees in the sun giving small trees in the shade carbs via a fungal bridge. A communication and transport system.

 

One thing I found extremely revealing was a statement made by Dr Elaine Ingham - paraphrased... "pH is determined by soil biota, not the other way round".

 

This statement lends the question, what does pH tell us about the inhabitants of our soil?

[maikeru]

Mycorrhizal fungi is a difficult field to learn about here as well. Many species have not had their fruiting bodies identified and growing them without hosts is proving nigh on impossible in many cases. Only some double as free living saprobes.

 

But, they are a crucial part of the picture. Big trees in the sun giving small trees in the shade carbs via a fungal bridge. A communication and transport system.

 

One thing I found extremely revealing was a statement made by Dr Elaine Ingham - paraphrased... "pH is determined by soil biota, not the other way round".

 

This statement lends the question, what does pH tell us about the inhabitants of our soil?

 

That's what I've been reading in my mycorrhizal book. Said a large number of mycorrhizae weren't identified, and it's likely the numbers of them will just keep growing as we keep investigating. I saw one of Dr. Elaine Ingham's books on Amazon...perhaps should think about getting it. I do agree with her statement to a large extent, in that the soil microbes and other biota mine minerals and chemicals and choose which ones are released or stored, soil microbes determine in part which plants they associate with and support in the soil, such as conifers or hardwoods for example, and that ecological succession among soil microbes also modifies pH. Plants too modify and maintain soil biota and their soil environment. I think it's a give and take. :(

 

I remember reading in a book about an Asian farmer who used sawdust to improve his soil, and other farmers warned him that it would not help, but the materials went through phases of fungal then bacterial decomposition, and the pH balanced itself out in a fairly short time. He said the end result was dark earth + humus. Even if one adds a high C/low N material like he did to the soil, I remember there are free-living microbes like Azotobacter who can fix N if they're given carbon-rich energy sources and should be able to alleviate such concerns. Though decomposition can slow down due to low N, it'll still happen regardless and improve the soil.

 

The only thing that is scary is truly dead soil, like sterilized potting soil or overworked, exhausted land. When the soil is dead, plants become like zombies and struggle just to live from day to day.

[Getting A Life]

Nice response, though we're heading off hydro into soil, if you don't mind, you can pull it back in to hydro anytime you wish. I do recommend Dr Inghams books she has a knack for explaining thee things to laymen and other scientists.

 

Have started reading about Mycorrhizal Helper Bacteria (MHB). These are also a give and take relationship. It is said they help set up the Hartig net - the bridge through which fungi and plants exchange nutrients, as well as detoxify metabolites that may inhibit fungal development. More information pending a well read man is doing a study as we speak.

 

I have started using wood waste on my section in conjunction with saprobic fungi. Paul Stamets talks about this in Mycelium Running. To assist the breakdown of wood waste is fairly simple.

 

1. Find wood waste already growing desirable saprobic species (like food species, or just fungi you like the look of).

 

2. Get squares of corrugated cardboard (6 inches is plenty big enough squares), soak it in water. Now, get a mushroom and pick it so the substrate comes up with it. Break off the stem butt and place this and any substrate attached inside the cardboard (peel it so it's like an envelope before adding fungi obviously).

 

3. Keep this moist and aired. The mycelium attaches to the cardboard using it as a new substrate. Get the cards 'growing' then move them to your plot.

 

4. Drop a layer of wood chip, add the cardboard cultures to this, cover in a generous amount of wood chip (4-8 inches).

 

5. Keep relatively moist over dry months.

 

6. To continue cultivating the same species in the same spot feed it more wood chips seasonally, or just let it spread out, the mycelium will grow outwards in a circle providing it has substrate to grow on and you'll have your own fairy ring.

 

VERY easy. And it works.

 

I've had dead soil. the mess the builders leave behind. Only adding biomass has helped. compost, leaving root balls in soil, worm castings, and now wood waste.

 

Bamboo is noted for a very healthy microbe population it it's rhizosphere. This may have helped accelerate the benefits to the farmer you mentioned.

[maikeru]

Nice response, though we're heading off hydro into soil, if you don't mind, you can pull it back in to hydro anytime you wish. I do recommend Dr Inghams books she has a knack for explaining thee things to laymen and other scientists.

 

Have started reading about Mycorrhizal Helper Bacteria (MHB). These are also a give and take relationship. It is said they help set up the Hartig net - the bridge through which fungi and plants exchange nutrients, as well as detoxify metabolites that may inhibit fungal development. More information pending a well read man is doing a study as we speak.

 

I have started using wood waste on my section in conjunction with saprobic fungi. Paul Stamets talks about this in Mycelium Running. To assist the breakdown of wood waste is fairly simple.

 

1. Find wood waste already growing desirable saprobic species (like food species, or just fungi you like the look of).

 

2. Get squares of corrugated cardboard (6 inches is plenty big enough squares), soak it in water. Now, get a mushroom and pick it so the substrate comes up with it. Break off the stem butt and place this and any substrate attached inside the cardboard (peel it so it's like an envelope before adding fungi obviously).

 

3. Keep this moist and aired. The mycelium attaches to the cardboard using it as a new substrate. Get the cards 'growing' then move them to your plot.

 

4. Drop a layer of wood chip, add the cardboard cultures to this, cover in a generous amount of wood chip (4-8 inches).

 

5. Keep relatively moist over dry months.

 

6. To continue cultivating the same species in the same spot feed it more wood chips seasonally, or just let it spread out, the mycelium will grow outwards in a circle providing it has substrate to grow on and you'll have your own fairy ring.

 

VERY easy. And it works.

 

I've had dead soil. the mess the builders leave behind. Only adding biomass has helped. compost, leaving root balls in soil, worm castings, and now wood waste.

 

Bamboo is noted for a very healthy microbe population it it's rhizosphere. This may have helped accelerate the benefits to the farmer you mentioned.

 

I will try this. I ended my hydroponic experiments. Became impatient after such a long time when comparing their growth rates to those in my biochar pots. Thus, I've converted my hydroponic plants to biochar ones as well. They seem to be gradually adapting. It was also interesting to note that compost tea turned a rough potting soil into very dark, rich, and fine soil over a month or two. Microbial action can be fast and powerful. I mixed this soil in with the biochar.

 

I am growing more indoor veggies now. I have carrots, turnips, beets, and even daikon growing in pots.

 

I'll try that sometime with oyster mushrooms or shiitake. My own fairy ring would amuse me, my girl, and the neighbors. :phones:

 

btw, I have some of Paul Stamets's books and Elaine Ingham's books on compost tea and a few others on order from Amazon.com. My birthday present and Christmas present all in one.

[Getting A Life]

Nice - you will love 'mycelium running'. Don't expect too much scientific detail - eg: this hosts that type information. There is masses of good information to be gleaned, but a mycorrhizal database it is not. You will pick up plenty of tips, and info on mycorrhizae.

 

'Mycomedicinals' is outstanding, wee little book that it is. I hope to assay some of our own fungi for medicinal properties at some stage (eg after degree). Fungi with activity against viruses is exciting stuff indeed!

 

And if you want to go into business 'The mushroom cultivator' and 'growing gourmet and medicinal mushrooms' are invaluable guides.

 

Then there's 'psilocybes of the world'. I just found a new psilocybe here! Need it under the microscope of a professional (have access) first. Distinguishing features like many psilocybes with the colouring, staining etc, but margin not striated and gills are sinuate. NEW!

 

A nice start to a career as mycologist/microbiologist.

 

One thing with Dr Ingham - her teachings are outstanding, and her publications worth their weight, but her opinions sometimes border on 'prejudiced'. Meaning, she is dismissive of other technologies proven to be effective - like char, and EM. The most productive soil in the world is anthropogenic - man made. Restoring a soils biota solves many problems for gardeners but it still will not compete with a char based soil made with good source materials.

 

All horticultural systems are man made. It doesn't matter how organic you are, fact is you are adding inputs and taking outputs. Adding char with your compost, to me, is a no brainer.

 

It's just sourcing the damn stuff.

 

I thought of the easiest food production system lately, just the bare bones of the idea for now.

 

Basically, an aquaculture facility beside a market garden. The aquaculture water is pumped onto the gardens providing free nitrates and biology. The fish get to stay in clean water, but the aquaculture farm no longer has a pollution problem, instead, it has fertiliser to provide. The market garden ustilises the free nitrates, and each year trims and chars it's shelter belts. Composting facilities provide source material for compost teas and char enrichment.

 

With char the available P levels will rise, with the free N and N fixing bacteria also available via irrigation.

 

Makes for a very cheap easy farm to run, and solves aquacultures biggest problem - pollution.

 

Of course, the monoculture culture hates diversity, but generally, the diverse culture hates them. ;)

 

Could have agriculture - wastes (effluent and whey) feed black soldier flies - larvae feed fish in aquaculture - fish wastes irrigate and grow grass for agriculture....

 

So freaking easy to create systems with greatly reduced inputs. Maximising protein production with 'maggots' hehe. :D

 

Sidetracked as usual... Glad your char is performing well for you.

 

Got a bio exam, better go, gonna ace it. ;)

[maikeru]

Nice - you will love 'mycelium running'. Don't expect too much scientific detail - eg: this hosts that type information. There is masses of good information to be gleaned, but a mycorrhizal database it is not. You will pick up plenty of tips, and info on mycorrhizae.

 

'Mycomedicinals' is outstanding, wee little book that it is. I hope to assay some of our own fungi for medicinal properties at some stage (eg after degree). Fungi with activity against viruses is exciting stuff indeed!

 

I got Mycelium Running and Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms in the mail. I can't tell you how enthusiastic I am right now. They've been my weekend reading. He has many clever but sensible uses of fungi, such as the mycelial filters. ;)

 

And if you want to go into business 'The mushroom cultivator' and 'growing gourmet and medicinal mushrooms' are invaluable guides.

 

I'll get The Mushroom Cultivator...when I don't break the bank. May need to wait a month or two. I'm leaving in a few weeks on a quick trip to visit my sweetheart.

 

Then there's 'psilocybes of the world'. I just found a new psilocybe here! Need it under the microscope of a professional (have access) first. Distinguishing features like many psilocybes with the colouring, staining etc, but margin not striated and gills are sinuate. NEW!

 

A nice start to a career as mycologist/microbiologist.

 

No kidding, I would figure there must be an untold amount of richness in your country! How jealous I am! :P Ahha, sometime, I hope to get back to using lab equipment and not just tinkering at home and the garden.

 

One thing with Dr Ingham - her teachings are outstanding, and her publications worth their weight, but her opinions sometimes border on 'prejudiced'. Meaning, she is dismissive of other technologies proven to be effective - like char, and EM. The most productive soil in the world is anthropogenic - man made. Restoring a soils biota solves many problems for gardeners but it still will not compete with a char based soil made with good source materials.

 

All horticultural systems are man made. It doesn't matter how organic you are, fact is you are adding inputs and taking outputs. Adding char with your compost, to me, is a no brainer.

 

It seems like that to me...I've noticed very little mention from her on biochar or terra preta from what I've been digging around on the net. Yes, soil biota helps out, but char raises the productivity and quality of growth by a few magnitudes. I have some pots growing herbs with simply compost tea additions, and they do well and continue growing productively in the kitchen. But they simply cannot compete with biochar pots I've been watching in my indoor garden room and bedroom.

 

I've done some reading on EM and bokashi. Pickled compost. It's a simple but innovative way to sterilise trash and I think more households, gardeners, and farmers might want to consider it. Even for those trying to save a few bucks, the ingredients (yoghurt bacteria, yeast, etc. + bran) can be found at the local supermarket or kitchen cupboard and fridge. More people need to consider composting and recycling, because we simply have too much garbage.

 

I thought of the easiest food production system lately, just the bare bones of the idea for now.

 

Basically, an aquaculture facility beside a market garden. The aquaculture water is pumped onto the gardens providing free nitrates and biology. The fish get to stay in clean water, but the aquaculture farm no longer has a pollution problem, instead, it has fertiliser to provide. The market garden ustilises the free nitrates, and each year trims and chars it's shelter belts. Composting facilities provide source material for compost teas and char enrichment.

 

With char the available P levels will rise, with the free N and N fixing bacteria also available via irrigation.

 

Makes for a very cheap easy farm to run, and solves aquacultures biggest problem - pollution.

 

Of course, the monoculture culture hates diversity, but generally, the diverse culture hates them. :phones:

 

Could have agriculture - wastes (effluent and whey) feed black soldier flies - larvae feed fish in aquaculture - fish wastes irrigate and grow grass for agriculture....

 

So freaking easy to create systems with greatly reduced inputs. Maximising protein production with 'maggots' hehe. :D

 

Sidetracked as usual... Glad your char is performing well for you.

 

Got a bio exam, better go, gonna ace it.

 

Interesting idea! I've read about black soldier flies before and their use as fish feed. I think aquaculture needs to stop using fish pellets to feed other fish. It's counterproductive and it's depleting the world's oceans. Buyers increasingly want healthy and nutritious foods at affordable prices, not the equivalent of the "fish feedlot," IMO.

[JMJones0424]

I have been thinking about how I would respond to this thread for some time, and have been continually putting off the response because I know it will end up being long winded. So I apologize in advance.

 

I have been playing off and on with hydroponics for nearly a decade. At one point I came close to setting up a commercial aquaponics food and cut flower farm, but at the last minute reason set in and I discarded the idea. Everything in this post is from personal experience, and while all of the conclusions are well thought out, some of them may very well be incorrect. There is very little USEFUL information about hydroponics available to the hobby gardener, outside of one specific black market crop that is so valuable that normal economic drives no longer apply to its production. I interned (at a now defunct) aquaponics operation and learned quite a bit there, as well as years of (mostly fruitless) late night internet study sessions and personal experiments. I HIGHLY recommend that anyone seriously looking into hydroponics, and most specifically aquaponics, take the time to attend the summer aquaponics presentations at the University of the Virgin Islands.

 

Maikeru- as has already been pointed out, your experiment was doomed to failure, as your design is simply an effective way to maintain a state of over-watering. I hope this post serves as an explanation as to why, and serves as a guide for you and others to have more successful experiments in the future.

 

First of all, most people have a basic understanding of how terrestrial plants grow. It is important to remember that plants take in nutrients through their roots in the form of ions. But even more important, they also take in oxygen dissolved in an aqueous solution for respiration through their roots. A lot of aquatic plants have developed special methods for obtaining oxygen in relatively anoxic environments. Terrestrial plants do not have this feature, and therefor dissolved oxygen in the water around the roots is very important. In the normal watering cycle of most terrestrial plants, the soil is first flooded with water that has very little dissolved oxygen, which is rapidly depleted by the plant. As water either evaporates, percolates down through the soil, or is drawn up by the plant, voids develop in the soil, and if the soil is not compacted and has adequate pore structure, oxygen slowly but steadily dissolves into the water trapped around the roots. Then finally, as the soil begins to dry, water itself becomes deficient, and the roots are once again oxygen starved. Plants have evolved to put up with this periodic lack of dissolved oxygen content, some do so better than others, but all plants in soil will experience this trend from low oxygen availability to high, and then back to low again.

 

Hydroponics is a way of reducing, and in some instances eliminating this periodic oxygen deficiency. There are many different approaches to do this, and many different variations on each approach. I will cover just the basics in order from most effective to least effective. I will not cover (in this post at least), the difference between organic and synthetic chemical approaches to hydroponics. When the plant has been removed from soil, there is no fundamental difference between the two approaches (at least from the plant's perspective), because the plant uses nutrients as ions disolved in an aqueous solution, the source of those ions is irrelevant TO THE PLANT. (It makes a HUGE difference to the soil biota, but we have eliminated soil).

 

Aeroponics

This method is extremely complicated, with many points of failure, but it provides maximum dissolved oxygen content at all times, and therefor produces the greatest increase in production. Nutrient solution is sprayed in an extremely fine mist directly onto the roots of suspended plants. Problems include massive capital costs, constantly plugging sprayers, and extreme monitoring because a failure in the pumping system will result in rapid plant die-off. I can think of no economical reason to use this method for any legally grown crop, so I will not expound further.

 

Deep Water Culture (DWC)

In this method, the plants are suspended in a nutrient solution with little to no medium used. This method requires constant temperature monitoring, because as the nutrient solution raises in temperature, biological activity increases, but oxygen availability decreases. Ideal temperatures are between 68 and 72 degrees F. Air is injected either through massive amounts of diffusers, or by continuously recycling the water and incorporating a "waterfall" drop to aerate the nutrient solution. Many hydroponic lettuce growers use this method with great success, but growing larger plants in this method becomes difficult due to the lack of any medium anchoring the plant. There are still a relatively high number of points of failure, and failure of one part may result in plant die-off within 4 to 12 hours depending on the system.

 

Flood and Drain or Ebb and Flow

In this method, the plants grow in a porous and bulky medium (I use lava rocks), and the nutrient solution is periodically flooded into the container of medium, allowed to rest for a short period, and then drained. This mimics the cycle taking place in soil, but as the planting medium is far more porous than soil, there is always a huge amount of surface area for oxygen to be dissolved into the water around the roots. Typical flood times range from every 30 minutes to every four hours during the day, and is largely plant and environmentally specific. While there are still many points of failure, there is no longer as much concern about nutrient solution temperature, and there is no longer any need to aerate the nutrient solution, so I recommend this method over DWC. However, because there is still somewhat of a cycle, growth rates will not be as fast as DWC or aeroponics.

 

Nutrient Film Technique (NFT)

This is another method used largely by commercial growers. In this method, plants are placed in long trays and grown in a porous medium (usually rockwool). Nutrient solution is slowly trickled down the trays so that it flows over the roots. Oxygenation takes place inside the tray and by waterfall back into the reservoir. This is the simplest "true" hydroponic method, as there is only one point of failure, the water pump, and there are no timers or any other monitoring devices needed.

 

Continuous Drip

This method is similar to Flood and Drain, except that the medium is finer and the nutrient solution is pumped into the top of the medium and allowed to percolate through. The nutrient solution can be collected at the bottom of the system and reused, or it can be discarded.

 

Wicking

This is barely hydroponics, but it has the least amount of possible failure points, and is relatively easy if done correctly. The plant is placed in a finer medium than in Ebb and Flow (perlite is perfect for this, or a 50/50 mixture of perlite and coco peat), and cotton or other fibrous "wicks" are strategically placed throughout the medium to draw nutrient solution up from the reservoir located directly below the plant. Because this method relies on evaporation and transpiration to draw fresh nutrient solution into the root zone, periodic flushing of the medium will be necessary to avoid a build up of salts. This method is great for plants that are not pushed to their biological limits through excess lighting.

 

It should be noted that in all of the above methods, where a growing medium is used, it should be something that is porous, does not compact, and is chemically inert. Hydroponics stores sell extremely overpriced hydroton balls which are essentially fired-clay balls, but I have found either well washed red lava rock or perlite to be a far more economical substitute.

 

If you use commercially prepared nutrient mixes, and closely monitor electrical conductivity (also measured as Total Dissolved Solids, but this is a misnomer, as the meter measures EC, and estimates TDS from that), pH, and temperature (if necessary) hydroponic nutrient solutions can be used for months at a time as long as you "top-off" with distilled or reverse osmosis water and the correct ratio of N/P/K/Ca/Mg/S and trace elements. It is finding that correct ratio that is tricky, however most plants respond well to a moderate range and only encounter problems under artificially high lighting conditions.

 

There is much debate over whether or not hydroponically grown plants "taste" better than organically grown soil-bound plants. I have found that usually this impression is made because people compare the relatively bland hothouse tomatoes found in supermarkets to home-grown organic tomatoes, and the difference in taste can be more accurately ascribed to plant variety than growing method. Remember, the plant has no clue were the ions come from, it only absorbs ionic nutrients. One important consideration though, is that there have been a few studies linking health problems to excess nitrate levels in leafy greens grown hydroponically. This is a reflection of over-fertilization, and the same could be said of soil farmers who apply excess synthetic nitrogen fertilizer on their crops. However, unlike in hydroponics, when a plant is grown in soil, a vast majority of the excess fertilizer leaches away from the root zone, so excess nitrate levels are not readily observed in soil-grown plants. Most commercial food-crops can be more accurately described as "field-hydroponics" as they grow in a similar method to continuous drip, but at a slower irrigation frequency due to the longer water-holding capability of the medium used (barren dirt).

 

 

I hope this helps to spur the discussion, and I will happily answer any questions to the best of my ability.

[maikeru]

I hope this helps to spur the discussion, and I will happily answer any questions to the best of my ability.

 

Excellent guide. I did try to increase aeration around the roots by using terra cotta and charcoal + perlite. Probably not enough. I also bet that the addition of compost tea with its soil microbes would have created oxygen debt through their metabolism, thus further starving the plants. Most hydroponic systems as I understand it are usually run and meant to be sterile and periodically cleaned or flushed with bleach. Mine was the furthest thing from it. Not with little white and green biofilms all over. Microbial gunk.