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Carrying a concealed weapon into a restaurant or bar


Should you be able to carry a concealed weapon into a restaurant or bar  

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  1. 1. Should you be able to carry a concealed weapon into a restaurant or bar

    • Yes
      6
    • No
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The question seems like it should be the opening line of a joke . . . almost. I think I can figure out some ways it can be turned into a joke, but I can't think of a punchline. I need some help. For example, how about this:

A minister, a priest, and a rabbi walk into a bar. How many of them are carrying concealed weapons?

Would "why" necessarily be part of the punchline? I don't know. That might not be the beginning of a joke; it might be the beginning of a theological debate. I guess I'll just have to see what kind of punchlines I get in response. Sometimes writing theology is easier than writing jokes.

--lemit

p.s. I don't think I want to get into jokes about a 12-inch pistol. Moontanman, keep it in your holster.
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I don't own any guns, but I have no problems with citizens owning guns. Heck, in the town north of me, it is mandated!

Nonetheless, certain places should not have guns. Athens, GA, where I went to school for my first year (UGA), was riddled with frat boys wanting to fight. If they had guns in the bar, I would NOT be going there.

It does come down to personal responsibility. Though, I don't feel comfortable leaving the law in the hands of vigilantes (or frat boys). I'm leaning towards no here, but my libertarian side is saying yes, emphatically.

I'll hold my tongue for now.
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In Ohio any business can determine if they allow conceal/carry on their premises. They have to put stickers similar to no smoking on the entrances indicating that concealed guns are not allowed, and that prohibits them from being carried in. No sign and anyone inside may be armed. Government offices and some other places are prohibited by default.

My Dad got his conceal carry permit in Arizona a few years ago. The process was very impressive in terms of the education you go though and even demonstrating proficiency with your registered weapon. From what I have read most states have similar programs for getting your permit. I remember going through similar training when I got my hunting license.

Bill
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[quote name='lemit']Have we all gone crazy?[/quote]

No, Mr. Lincoln. Sit tight, the show starts soon....

I like the option of bars self-regulating. I don't know, it sounds American.
I'm leaning towards no, but I need a push. :)

I won't be seeing "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_American_Cousin"]Our American Cousin[/URL]". :hyper:
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[quote]So, whatever happened to Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.'s admonition against falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater. Apparently in the U.S. it's now all right to brandish firearms in a crowded theater, even if the president is there.

Have we all gone crazy?

--lemit [/quote]

No lemit is is not alright to brandish a fire arm in a crowded theater or any where else for that matter. I suggest you get information about the topic before you post. Concealed carry is a big responsibility and unnecessarily pulling your gun is a quick way to loose your license.

[quote]A weapon in public should be allowed to civilians only if: unloaded at all times during transporation.
You can have a gun on your private property, or gun range, or hunting grounds. Nowhere else. [/quote]

Your opinion is noted but this is not what the thread is about. the facts are in many state citizens can and do carry concealed fire arms, the question how much restriction on those who carry the guns should be law? And or should other citizens decide if their place of business is concealed carry area.

I say no, the government should not restrict where a gun owner can carry his gun, but if you as a private citizen do not want guns in your place of business you should be able to restrict them.
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THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:

[i]AMENDEMNT II: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of the free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.[/i]

I just don’t see how any gun-toting bar or restaurant patron can be construed as a member of “a well regulated Militia.” This country sucks up so badly to the NRA that you’d think it had a gun pointed at our heads. Why are people so insecure about life that they have to ready to deal in death over their chicken-fried steaks?

Slap leather, cowboy, if you’re afraid of rattlers, bushwhackers, and old ladies eating their blueberry muffins!
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[quote name='Moontanman']
Your opinion is noted but this is not what the thread is about. the facts are in many state citizens can and do carry concealed fire arms, [/quote]
I understand that. But, nonetheless, a concealed weapon is a weapon in public. Is it not?
[quote name='Moontanman']Your opinion is noted but this is not what the thread is about. . . . the question how much restriction on those who carry the guns should be law? And or should other citizens decide if their place of business is concealed carry area. [/quote]
MM, I think I answered the question. In essence: No Concealed Weapons. You can only have a weapon at your private property, gun range, or hunting grounds, or unloaded in transportation to and from gun range or hunting grounds to your home.

(IMO, concealed wepons are extremely unfair inherently: You are carrying a weapon that can take a person's life away in a split second with a pull of a trigger -- on button; and no one in public is appraised of that extreme danger and possible harm. You do not need to protect yourself in public that bad.)
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[quote name='lawcat']I understand that. But, nonetheless, a concealed weapon is a weapon in public. Is it not?

MM, I think I answered the question. In essence: No Concealed Weapons. You can only have a weapon at your private property, gun range, or hunting grounds, or unloaded in transportation to and from gun range or hunting grounds to your home. [/quote]

So your take is that guns should not be allowed in public? So your answer to the poll would be no? Ok but poll asked about states where concealed carry is already the law so your opinion on being able to carry a gun is moot in this instance.


[quote](IMO, concealed weapons are extremely unfair inherently: You are carrying a weapon that can take a person's life away in a split second with a pull of a trigger -- on button; and no one in public is appraised of that extreme danger and possible harm. You do not need to protect yourself in public that bad.)[/quote]


No one is appraised of the danger of a criminal In a public place looking to shoot you either. I say a trained armed man with a legal gun is far less danger than an armed untrained criminal who has no respect for human life at all.

I would dare to say that many people who were killed in public due to some nut sase deciding to shoot random people in a restaurant or even on the street might disagree with you. I know I would feel much safer in a group where one or more persons is a licensed gun carrier.

The idea of a rational human having a gun when a crazy comes up with one is a good thing not a bad thing. A licensed gun carrier does not pull his weapon and wave it around. Unless real life threatening trouble starts no one would even know a gun was present.

One thing is for sure criminals have no qualms about carrying a gun and using it to get their way often shooting anyone they want. There have been many cases in recent years of shooting that would have turned out differently if an armed trained individual had been present. I'll opt for conceal carry, you can put your self to the mercy of armed criminals if you want, I'm betting at some point you would wish some citizen was there to defend you from the armed criminal.

BTW, by the time the police get there it's far too late to anything about the dead bodies....

39 of the 50 states "shall issue" concealed carry permits, the thread is should states that allow concealed carry restrict restaurants and bars from being concealed carry areas. Or should the owners decide.

In NC I have been stopped in traffic checks many times, I always tell the officer up front that i am armed, sometimes he looks at the permit sometimes he just waves me on. The police do not fear a licensed gun owner, why should the public?
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[quote name='Moontanman']In NC I have been stopped in traffic checks many times, I always tell the officer up front that i am armed, sometimes he looks at the permit sometimes he just waves me on. The police do not fear a licensed gun owner, why should the public?[/quote]
MTM, why do you need to carry around a loaded gun? What are you so insecure about? Do they have rattlesnakes and grizzly bears in NC?
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[quote name='Larv']MTM, why do you need to carry around a loaded gun? What are you so insecure about? Do they have rattlesnakes and grizzly bears in NC?[/quote]

No larv sweetie, they have criminals, much like everywhere there are people who are willing to shoot you for something as trivial as your wallet or your car or maybe just because you happen to be in the wrong exercise class at the wrong time. I know it's difficult for you but us adults know of such things and try to take steps to defend against them.
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One of the first things you are taught in the classes for getting a permit is that you are not ever looking for a gunfight. You are carrying it for those situations where you can save your life or someone else. But in most situations you simply let them play out in hopes that cooler heads prevail.

My dad got his because he and my mom teach dance classes in Phoenix. The people who attend the classes pay with cash, so they end up with a wad of money in the middle of the night getting to their car. Some of the places they teach are not jewels of civility. If confronted they would simply hand over the money and hope that descriptions were enough to let the police handle things. But if they were to knock down my dad and begin assaulting my my mom they would soon discover the old guy with the gimp leg laying on the ground is also carrying heat and is a crack shot. It is not so much about self defense as about life defense. It is unfortunate that such a need exists, and fortunate that society allows honest people to defend their lives when needed.

Bill
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BigDogBill, here’s my (perverted) take on what you say about your parents in Phoenix: Firstly, they are probably right about being cautious when carrying around money late at night. Secondly, by carrying heat they also carry the risk of being overpowered by unarmed thugs who might steal their gun and shoot them with it. Thirdly, there are other options available to your parents for protecting their money, such as bonded services to transport the cash to the bank. Fourthly, if you’re into measuring relative risk then consider that carrying a gun has certain risks of its own, as with my third point. Furthermore, if your parents killed someone with that gun, even an aggressive criminal, they would be severely traumatized by the experience.

I see the vain art of packing heat as a lose-lose proposition. Never once in my 70 years of American life have I needed to use a gun to protect myself. But if I had been carrying around a gun for most of that time I’m pretty sure I would have found a need to use it…that is, if I hadn’t been assaulted over it first and then shot to death with it.
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[quote name='Larv']BigDogBill, here’s my (perverted) take on what you say about your parents in Phoenix: Firstly, they are probably right about being cautious when carrying around money late at night. Secondly, by carrying heat they also carry the risk of being overpowered by unarmed thugs who might steal their gun and shoot them with it. Thirdly, there are other options available to your parents for protecting their money, such as bonded services to transport the cash to the bank. Fourthly, if you’re into measuring relative risk then consider that carrying a gun has certain risks of its own, as with my third point. Furthermore, if your parents killed someone with that gun, even an aggressive criminal, they would be severely traumatized by the experience.[/quote]

Perverted is correct, I think that being shot by a criminal is a bit more traumatizing than shooting someone who wants to shoot you.

[quote]I see the vain art of packing heat as a lose-lose proposition. Never once in my 70 years of American life have I needed to use a gun to protect myself. But if I had been carrying around a gun for most of that time I’m pretty sure I would have found a need to use it…that is, if I hadn’t been assaulted over it first and then shot to death with it.[/quote]

What you say is so short sighted it's difficult to imagine. Just because you've never been in a situation where your life was in danger doesn't mean it doesn't happen on a regular basis to others. If indeed you are the type of person who would go looking for an excuse to use your gun then you are the very type of person who has no business with a gun. I'd like to see someone assault me and take my gun away, if you know how to use a gun, and are trained as to when and where to use it this would not happen. Larv you are obvious not a qualified gun person it is best you do not carry a gun. now the thread is not about whether or not we should carry a gun but as to if a gun should be carried into a restaurant or bar and if the government should make a law to determine this. In 39 states the debate about carrying a gun is past.
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Moontanman, doesn't it bother you just a little bit to see all those nimrods, nitwits, nabobs, nincompoops who are carrying around heat, especially in bars and restaurants? Sure, you and BigDogBill's parents are decent people who'd never do a bad thing with a gun. But I don't see how arming you in a bar or a restaurant will do anything but put more stray bullets in the air that I'll have to duck when the shooting starts up.

One universal constant: weapons beget more weapons; violence begets more violence.
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