Idiot savantism

[paigetheoracle]

Could the reason idiot savantism occur be that such people have reduced censoring mechanisms (what comes in and goes out). Scientology has a useful pair of definitions called the analytical and reactive minds in this connection. Ordinary intelligence is analytical, which means it is controlled, to filter out extraneous input, in order to to stop overwhelming sensory information coming in that disables the person from interacting well in society (Witness Kim Peak and Stephen Darbishire, the autistic artist plus those children given up by medical science as hopeless cases that seemed to have been saved by the magic of music: Young, blind as well as autistic boy featured on BBC2 last year I believe (didn't take notes) and young Australian boy, Patrick Farley, featured on 'The Extraordinary' TV show, airing on Sky now but up to 20years years old).

 

Anyway, to get back to the Scientology definition, the reactive mind records everything without distinction. According to them it disables ordinary peoples minds, so that they can't operate at optimum level. But they just see it as negative, whereas I see it has more positive effects (See Dr Allan Snyders comments in Temple Grandin's book 'Animals in Translation' , which echoes this belief - page 300/ 302, if my memory serves me right: No copy of book at hand to confirm this at present but will check reference if anybody is interested).

 

I personally find it funny that they don't either recognize nor see the value of this facility, only seeing it as an enemy but at least they have brought this concept into the public fold.

[Moontanman]

L. Ron Hubbard would be oh so proud, are you trying to say that savants are more intelligent than regular people? Savants can indeed do things others cannot but they also lack a considerable number of things most people have. The ability to tell you in second or two how many bricks are in building seems to pale compared to the lack of ability to function in most other ways.

[pamela]

Savantism is, i believe, greatly misunderstood.Applying the term idiot, is not accurate. Idiocy falls into an IQ of 25 or less and does not blanket savantism. It is important to understand that this syndrome can be a result of brain damage, as well as a manifestation in those with autism and various degrees of mental disabilities and development.

I dunno about reduced censoring mechanisms, Paige, these abilities are likely to be generated in the memory centers of the brain. Not sure what you think is lacking Moon, but your remarks seem to pertain more to those with autism who lack or suppress interactive social skills. If you can clarify your statements, that would be helpful

[Moontanman]

I know it's limited but of the four or five savants I've known they all lacked a considerable amount when it came to the things many of us take for granted. "retarded" was often a term used on them as well. I knew two of them quite well and they were not exactly all you could be type people. but as you probably noticed I didn't use the term idiot savant, i think that is a very misleading term and should not be used at all. all people are deserving of respect. nothing is gained by calling names or dwelling on what they lack. labels are wrong and are used to limit people in some ways, but to ignore a persons needs or abilities or lack there of is equally limiting.

[pamela]

interesting..Did these people have a prodigious ability? What in your opinion were they lacking? Although idiot is a deragatory term, it was originally used to label an IQ under 25, respectfully, that is not used today:)

[paigetheoracle]

L. Ron Hubbard would be oh so proud, are you trying to say that savants are more intelligent than regular people? Savants can indeed do things others cannot but they also lack a considerable number of things most people have. The ability to tell you in second or two how many bricks are in building seems to pale compared to the lack of ability to function in most other ways.

 

That was my point - I don't think he would be proud (Don't you remember the recent case of John Travolta's son's death and Scientology's attitude towards autism?). What I'm saying is that they have strengths as glorified recording machines and observation tools that could make them useful to society, rather than thrown on the scrap heap as this society (and Scientology along with it) wants to do with them or again, haven't you heard of the bill that your country was trying to launch, maybe a couple of years back, to erase this condition by stopping it at the pre-birth (genetic) stage and Britain was going to probably import too?:)

[Moontanman]

interesting..Did these people have a prodigious ability? What in your opinion were they lacking? Although idiot is a deragatory term, it was originally used to label an IQ under 25, respectfully, that is not used today:)

 

The savant I knew the best would sit on the side walk in the middle of the city and count bricks for people. They would give him the dimensions of a building and the number of size of doors and windows and he could immediately tell them how many bricks it would take to build the structure. But on an interpersonal level he was a small child and could not function in society. I used to talk to him while my momma shopped when I was a kid. even at 10 years old and him an adult he had a very tough time carrying on a conversation. people would come by and give him money for performing but some people taunted him and called hims names too, mostly it rolled right off him. The other savant I knew well would sit along side the road ever day and remember license plates, he operated at less than a child capacity as well. Now I know there are individual who are savants and can function but back then the only examples I had were of these type.

[Moontanman]

haven't you heard of the bill that your country was trying to launch, maybe a couple of years back, to erase this condition by stopping it at the pre-birth (genetic) stage and Britain was going to probably import too?:)

 

No I haven't heard of that, I doubt many people would be on board with that sort of thing and I've never heard that autism was genetic exclusively.

[pamela]

moontanman

hmm, i have to wonder about a child's perception. His social skills may not have been lacking but in direct response to the abuse he had suffered at the expense of the onlookers. Forty some years ago is a long time, and many parents would likely not have known the best teaching tools and comprehension of their childs abilities.

Paige, you might want to find that information and post it.

[Moontanman]

I'm sure I wasn't qualified to diagnose anything but my social skills were as good as any child and the savant lacked those completely as well as most knowledge about most everyday skills but then again it was at a time when people who varied from the norm were usually put aside with no real effort being made to help them be all they can be.

[paigetheoracle]

No I haven't heard of that

 

If you visit 'Wrong Planet' or 'Aspies for Freedom', two sites on the subject I regularly visit, you'll find threads on this as a petition to 10 Downing Street in the UK (Latter site anyway).

[paigetheoracle]

moontanman

hmm, i have to wonder about a child's perception. His social skills may not have been lacking but in direct response to the abuse he had suffered at the expense of the onlookers. Forty some years ago is a long time, and many parents would likely not have known the best teaching tools and comprehension of their childs abilities.

Paige, you might want to find that information and post it.

 

I think the real problem with the autistic, if not others with learning difficulties, is that they are visually orientated in the main (me included), making verbal communication difficult (read Temple Grandin's book on the subject ' Animals in Translation' or visit sites like Wrong Planet/ Aspies for Freedom or medical sites dealing with the issue/ Wikipedia definitions).

 

By the way Pam, thanks for pointing out the original, neutral meaning of this term that has been corrupted by emotional associations itdidn't originally have.