Gold

[TIC]

I'm working on a novel and looking for a technically accurate way to coceal 2000 pounds of 24K gold.

 

It has to be simple (not spray paint.) Something that can be done in a small warehouse buy a few nare-do-wells.

 

Gold is often electroplated onto base metals. I was wondering if the oppisite could be easily done? e.g. plate gold WITH a base metal like zinc or lead?

 

To be sure I cannot work with any ideas that include access to foundries, or 30,000gallons of Aqua Regia . . .low key.

 

Let your accurate and devious mind lose.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

TIC

[Turtle]

I'm working on a novel and looking for a technically accurate way to coceal 2000 pounds of 24K gold.

 

It has to be simple (not spray paint.) Something that can be done in a small warehouse buy a few nare-do-wells.

 

Gold is often electroplated onto base metals. I was wondering if the oppisite could be easily done? e.g. plate gold WITH a base metal like zinc or lead?

 

To be sure I cannot work with any ideas that include access to foundries, or 30,000gallons of Aqua Regia . . .low key.

 

Let your accurate and devious mind lose.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

TIC

 

Roger. Count me in. Activating devious brain centers...whirrrr....click...mmmmmmmm :confused: :shrug:

 

I need more details, such as the original form of the gold (coins, bullion, nuggets, etcetera), means of transport, type of surveillence to be avoided, time allowed for transformation process, number of perps, erhm...peeps available to help, money available to secure equipment, and of course my cut. :)

 

As to simply disguising gold, why then it is relatively simple to plate it with silver. To whit: >>

Electroplating Silver on Gold

... But, short answer, plating silver onto pure gold should be breezy-easy. A high-school chemistry-lab's silver-nitrate solution would work. I guess it should have a silver wire for an anode. ...

[Moontanman]

Turtle, I agree I can think of several ways to conceal gold but I need to know what form it is now and how much stealth is required.

[Turtle]

What with this talk of sneaking gold and finding myself housebound by ice & snow, I am put in mind of a children's story of many years past. Titled Snow Treasure by Marie McSwigan, it is set in WWII Norway. A clever, if not entirely true, premise and downright sneaky read for kids of all ages interested in smuggling gold. :smilingsun:

 

This children's book was a favorite for three generations in my family. My mother read it. My sisters and I read a copy to pieces. My niece and nephews read it. It's the story of how Norwegian children smuggled gold out of Norway on their sleds during World War II, right under the noses of the Nazi soldiers. When I read the book, it said it was based on a true story. Now, current versions of the book no longer claim that. No matter what, it's one of the most exciting stories I ever read. ...

Lesa's Book Critiques: Snow Treasure and Pimpernel Gold

[froggy]

2000 pounds of 24K gold...simple...done in a small warehouse buy a few nare-do-wells. ... Aqua Regia

This is my first choice. You would only need ~ 2000gallons of it. Or maybe cyanide is a better sounding chemical for bad guys. Its sold in totes and is easy enough to get and its not technically difficult. Then you could salt it up and mix up with something like road salt or table salt.

 

Maybe you can figure out a way to spin it? Like into small wire? Or beat it flat because its the most malleable of all metals.

 

How about changing the color thru chemistry? You can do this by making particles so small that light reflects differently. There are ball mills that could do this tho you would need a bunch and they would take a while. Or you can do this by alloying it with a multitude of metals, Mercury comes to mind that seems like a good plaything for a novel. Alloying it with something like Aluminum and it turns Purple, Indium = pale blue and Ni = white.

[belovelife]

you could fume it with gold and give it a redish purple hue

and by ume i mean

grab a small chunk of gold

heat it with a propane/oxygen torch

when it hits things and forms a super thin film it has a pink-redish-purplish hue

or you could use silver and turn it blue or white

[modest]

This thread has me wondering how well an industrial strength wood chipper would do with a gold bar. I bet pretty well. Anybody have one for testing?

 

~modest

[belovelife]

oh yea

for a book with people in a situation

all they would need is electricity (could begotten from any motor )

and a tube, then you take a chunk of the gold

and fume the rest of it (through electrolisis (2h20->2h2+02) = fire:)

by connecting the tube to the container and lighting the exust on fire

[Moontanman]

This thread has me wondering how well an industrial strength wood chipper would do with a gold bar. I bet pretty well. Anybody have one for testing?

 

~modest

 

No problem, just bring the gold over to my house, we'll chip it up and see what happens :)

[modest]

No problem, just bring the gold over to my house, we'll chip it up and see what happens :)

 

No, I also was going to offer up the wood chipper, asking if anybody had the gold. I'm fresh out of gold bars myself.

 

Maybe if TIC's heist goes well :)

 

~modest

[logy]

Umm here's a few ideas, pick the one that fits the story best :)

 

1. Plastic. Plastic melts at relatively low temperatures, so coating the gold with non transparent plastic should be possible in a back yard garage. if you need a way to prevent people from cutting through the plastic, just add sand to the gold...

 

2. Lead coating, use a layer of lead powder, and cover it with some metal that is easy to weld/cast such as welding wire. this will require a cast made from a ceramic that is stable at high temperatures but should work fine, i think.

 

3. Oxidize (burn) it, use electrolysis to make pure oxygen from water (or buy oxygen from some medical equipment supply) and then burn it in an oven at high temperature to create gold (III) oxide, only a chemist will know what it is lol.

 

4. Grind it into small pieces, take a bunch of grinded aluminum, then create on oxide layer on both using an oven.

 

5. Pure gold is very malleable, so you can shape it into an unsuspicious shape like a wire or sheets, then coat it with some metal potty or other metaling compound that is easy to work with, so that it looks like wires, sheets of solder metal, a statue, or whatever your crazy mind can come up with.

[Michaelangelica]

Does it have to be Gold?

 

A story is told locally of a guy who worked in the radiology department of the hospital.

He took the spare x-rays home and extracted the silver off/from them.

Over the years he ended up with a dozen or more brick sized ingots

 

His house was robbed and they took the usual TV DVD etc.

 

Propping open many of the doors of his house were the silver ingots which had acquired a lead like patina as they aged.

The thieves did not notice this fortune under their noses.:)

[TIC]

Roger. Count me in. Activating devious brain centers...whirrrr....click...mmmmmmmm :) ;)

 

I need more details, . . .

 

Ahh well, can’t give away all the goodies. But lets say it’s starts out as 1Kilo bars. It’s a fiction, so time and money are not a real concern. However if they did have unlimited funds, there would be no point smuggling a ton of gold. End result would have to pass scrutiny by multiple boarder customs folks. The idea is conceal it’s value in the simplest and believable way . . . Thus the question about zinc or lead.

[TIC]

 

2. Lead coating, use a layer of lead powder, and cover it with some metal that is easy to weld/cast such as welding wire. this will require a cast made from a ceramic that is stable at high temperatures but should work fine, i think.

 

3. Oxidize (burn) it, use electrolysis to make pure oxygen from water (or buy oxygen from some medical equipment supply) and then burn it in an oven at high temperature to create gold (III) oxide, only a chemist will know what it is lol.

 

 

These are interesting.

Can you explain #2 a little more?

#3 sounds cool. O2 would be no problem. But would this require a fairly sophisticated furnace? And how do you get back into the gold form?

[TIC]

Turtle, I agree I can think of several ways to conceal gold but I need to know what form it is now and how much stealth is required.

 

Starting form would be 1 Kilo bars. The end result would have to be simple and pass customs inspections at multiple boarders. Once again these guys are not going to have a foundry, multimillion dollar wire-making equipment, or able to cast a VW bug. More like a ton of very uninteresting fishing weights;):)

[Moontanman]

Starting form would be 1 Kilo bars. The end result would have to be simple and pass customs inspections at multiple boarders. Once again these guys are not going to have a foundry, multimillion dollar wire-making equipment, or able to cast a VW bug. More like a ton of very uninteresting fishing weights;):)

 

Actually fishing weights was what I had in mind. when you troll in the ocean they use weights of around a kilo. It shouldn't be too difficult to beat relatively pure gold into almost any shape. Various shapes of weights, most are spheres, or bowls, plates or cups should be easy too. paint them with gray paint or dip them in molten lead should hide their true identity quite easily. Beat them into the shape of several small anvils or axe heads and hammer heads would be good too.

[TIC]

This is my first choice. You would only need ~ 2000gallons of it. Or maybe cyanide is a better sounding chemical for bad guys. Its sold in totes and is easy enough to get and its not technically difficult. Then you could salt it up and mix up with something like road salt or table salt.

 

Maybe you can figure out a way to spin it? Like into small wire? Or beat it flat because its the most malleable of all metals.

 

How about changing the color thru chemistry? You can do this by making particles so small that light reflects differently. There are ball mills that could do this tho you would need a bunch and they would take a while. Or you can do this by alloying it with a multitude of metals, Mercury comes to mind that seems like a good plaything for a novel. Alloying it with something like Aluminum and it turns Purple, Indium = pale blue and Ni = white.

 

2000 Gallons sounds like lot but maybe it not as much as I imagine. Still can you explain a bit more about the salt and what the end product would look like and then how to get it back into pure gold:confused:

 

Alloying sounds simple enough. Is it really this simple? Melt the gold and the Aluminum, stir them up, pour into molds. How tricky is the flip side?