Scientific consensus on the effects and cause of global warming

[litespeed]

Moderation Note: the following 8 posts were moved from Still no sunspots...

 

Just Three Things

 

1) There is no consensus current warming is forced by human CO2.

 

.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :.

 

2) Further, cold is bad, warm is good. Believe me, you will not grow tomatoes in Summer Time Chicago the next time it is under half a mile of ice.

[REASON]

Just Three Things

 

1) There is no consensus current warming is forced by human CO2.

 

.: U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works :: Minority Page :.

 

2) Further, cold is bad, warm is good. Believe me, you will not grow tomatoes in Summer Time Chicago the next time it is under half a mile of ice.

 

First of all, that's just two things.

 

1) There is no consensus current warming is forced by human CO2.

 

That depends on where you get your information and who you ask? There is a general concensus among the world's top climatologists affiliated with the IPCC that human activities, including the release of carbon dioxide and continual deforestation practices, are a primary factor in recent warming trends.

 

Concensus does not mean that everyone has to agree.

 

 

2) Further, cold is bad, warm is good. Believe me, you will not grow tomatoes in Summer Time Chicago the next time it is under half a mile of ice.

 

One's opinion of whether hot or cold is good or bad is purely subjective and is ultimately irrelevant when considering the potentially devastating effects on populations of people as a result of our ignorant persistance in poluting our environment and destabilizing climatic systems, and our egotistical unwillingness to acknowledge the warning signs and modify our behavior.

 

 

Also, this thread is intended to discuss the seemingly unusual lack of sunspots and solar activity, and it is preferable that we not spiral off into another discussion on the merits of AGW here.

[alexander]

litespeed, i wouldn't start with this. We know and have countlessly shown, that even considering that we could be entering another warm stage, the temperature patters are much too tight to be of earth's own doing, and while the scientists argue to the extent, a hugely overwhelming majority of them now believe this current trend in warming to be at least helped by our current CO2 emissions. You have to read that report with some sarcasm, remember a major part of the revenue of the gov-t is buying and selling and burning fossil fuels, hell, Palin just declared that clean coal and nuclear are "alternative fuel" technology, gimme a break 1/2 the people there don't know and couldn't care less about global warming...

 

on your second note, warm is bad too, believe me, you will not grow tomatoes in summer time Chicago, when its under 50 feet of water, either...

 

back on topic.... how's the solar activity these days? are we finally seeing some?

[litespeed]

Reason - RE Consenus: In the past few years the number of prominent climatologists - those that would be included in the Statistical Universe, has not only grown, but has gathered "converts' from" within the same universe who previously were on the other side of the issue.

 

I am WAY to busy with travel plans to start making up lists, but some of these converts were, as I recall, among those who first sounded the alarm. One thing that has not helped the CO2 enthusiasts is Al Gores worse then flimsy video. One example, Polar Bears.

 

I did a lot of google on the 19 (?) know polar bear populations, and here is one hilariarious example: "Davis Strait polar bear population is much more numerous than originally expected ...There are some 2,100 polar bears... That's a big jump from an estimate of about 850 [in] 1980s."

 

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2007/articles01/davis.htmI

 

I remember one authority said there are not just more polar bears, but "a HELL of a lot more." Some attribute this to restricitions on Harps Seal havest. Harp Seals are a major food resource for the bears. Native peoples already have hunting rights, and some of them would like permission to sell 'safari' type rights to other hunters, much like is done with some species in Aftrica for rich clientel.

 

So Al Gore's poor, dispondent polar bear on the isolated floating ice berg might just end end up on a hunting lodge floor in upstate New York, and the Inuit quide gets a new refreigerator.

[litespeed]

WARM v COLD

 

I simply point out Alaska is not known for its grain production. Much cooler then it is now, and neither will Canada. I will begin to worry about to much heat when I begin to see British Pinot Noire offered at my local restaurtant. I don't know the grape variety, but in Roman times Britain had a vigoruous viniculture. The climate then cooled and, well, frozen hell broke out.

 

So. When I begin to see British Pinot I will not worry about warm, I will worry about the inevitable cooling. Unless, of course, I were interested in Ergo contaminated grain caused by cool, wet climate. Reportedly, some people actually LIKE the LSD type effects, and these days you will not be burned as a witch. Rehab, perhaps. The stake, no.

[REASON]

And yet my previous post still stands.

[litespeed]

Reason RE the IPCC

 

The UN Sucks, and the beuracracy is little more then weird world patronage. It has, IMHO, the moral authority and scientific credibility of Pope Urban [whats his number]. And I make these claims from some personal experience with the UN, and its beaurocratic sycophants.

 

Years ago I worked as a Congressional Investigator out of Frankfurt. The very biggest plum you could possibly pull out of your xmas pie was ANY sort of job with the UN out of Berne. My God, it made Chicago Patronage look like wrapped sugar candies. I mean, well, it still leaves me speachless. Not my cup of tea, but very much my tax-exempt envy.

 

One night, flying out of Dar es Salam to Cairo, I struck up a conversation with a UN lady doing much the same research as I had been doing in Africa. We had a grand time on the nearly empty plane until take-off time. She then strutted up to First Class. THE FRIGGN PLANE WAS EMPTY.

 

Envy? YOU BET. Instructive? YOU BET! IPCC Scientists? YOU BET! Independent minded? You have got to be dreaming. Incest for financial gain does not even begin to describe this wretched organization. I only wish EYE was on the payroll.

 

 

 

.

[litespeed]

I have edited out this comment as inappropriate venting. Felt good at the time though!

[freeztar]

The UN Sucks, and the beuracracy is little more then weird world patronage. It has, IMHO, the moral authority and scientific credibility of Pope Urban [whats his number].

 

It seems you may be confused as to the actual function of the UN IPCC. The IPCC does not conduct scientific research. It gathers research from scientists all over the globe and uses that information to inform policy decisions that governments can use (if they want to). There is rigorous debate during the drafting of the IPCC's reports. Not everyone on the IPCC agrees with the final publications. But until countries, or other independent orgs, start using independent scientific data to inform their own policy decisions, the IPCC is a great, international tool imho.

[litespeed]

freeztar

 

I deleded my posts on the UN as more personal attack then useful comment. However, I do believe the IPPC adopted an agenda within which it is now trapped. "UN claims man-made global warming 'proved beyond a doubt'..." to me sounds a bit like: 'The universe is expanding at a slower and slower rate is proved beyond a doubt. I

 

In addition, given recent debates over IPPC editorial activities such certitude in lanquage sounds a bit defensive, really.

[freeztar]

"UN claims man-made global warming 'proved beyond a doubt'..." to me sounds a bit like: The universe is expanding at a slower and slower rate is proved beyond a doubt.

 

I'm unaware of the IPCC ever using such a statement.

 

Please see Table 3 from the following link:

 

http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-uncertaintyguidancenote.pdf