Vice Presidential Debate

[questor]

I have been damaged financially by redistribution of income schemes and higher taxes, but so far, I have not been damaged by praying Americans. Just lucky I guess.

[Nitack]

I have been damaged financially by redistribution of income schemes and higher taxes, but so far, I have not been damaged by praying Americans. Just lucky I guess.

 

If you were homosexual would you be allowed to marry your partner no matter where you lived in this country? Denial of equal rights based on the religious beliefs of the majority.

 

Do you not acknowledge the very real risk that if you live in a rural area that your children may be forced to learn that Intelligent Design is a scientific concept if they go to public school? Teaching of religious concepts as science because they object to the real scientific theories.

 

I call the denial of equal rights and intentionally dumbing down our children to be quite damaging.

[Turtle]

I have been damaged financially by redistribution of income schemes and higher taxes, but so far, I have not been damaged by praying Americans. Just lucky I guess.

 

Yeah; I'd say luck is the operative term. Too bad these kids got the short end of the prayer stick. :confused:

Faith-healing parents charged in son’s death

Death was second this year involving Oregon City church group

 

Two Oregon City parents whose church relies on faith healing, were arrested Thursday and charged with criminally negligent homicide in the death of their 16-year-old son.

Faith-healing parents charged in son’s death

[Nitack]

Hmmmm... Wonder if President Palin will require that all hospitals receiving federal funding teach faith healing as a legitimate medical specialty...

[REASON]

Would one of you Obamians please tell me EXACTLY what you think Obama is going to do that gets you so excited? Please don't just say anything is better than Bush, that doesn't show much thought.

 

I think what you should do on this thread as a Palinian, is tell us what you think Palin is going to do that gets you so excited.

 

She has been touted as the source of revitalization to the dragging McCain campaign, which suggests that Republicans aren't able to get very excited about their candidate. What is her secret?

[Nitack]

She has been touted as the source of revitalization to the dragging McCain campaign, which suggests that Republicans aren't able to get very excited about their candidate. What is her secret?

 

I am not a Palin fan, but I think i can answer this question. Palin WAS a revitalizing prospect for the McCain campaign because she legitimately is a Washington outsider. She is the genuine article for a party that touts itself as the party of small town America.

 

She is now floundering because people are realizing that they don't want a "Hockey Mom"/"Joe Six Pack" to be their leader. Sounds great to them at first but then some of them start to look introspectively and realize that they themselves are not qualified to be President, why trust some one just like them.

[REASON]

I have been damaged financially by redistribution of income schemes and higher taxes, but so far, I have not been damaged by praying Americans. Just lucky I guess.

 

Yeah, me too. As a member of the middle class, I went three years without a merit pay increase due to a company pay freeze as my health insurance, utilities, transportation costs, and food expenses continued to increase at an accelerated rate. Meanwhile, executive pay and bonuses were increasing to as much as 400 times the average worker. Those wealth redistribution schemes benefitting the rich were really kicking my ***. Not to mention, as a member of the middle class, the percentage of taxes that I have had to pay relative to my income are higher than those same executives. Bush's tax cuts weren't really meant for me.

 

Looks like all we have to do is become rich and our problems would be solved, huh questor? Why doesn't every one just do that? :confused:

[Essay]

Did anybody else notice Palin mentioned "Shia extremists" instead of Sunni?

 

That struck me too; but it was part of a phrase, "...Al Queda and Shia extremists...." I remember thinking that, well, that's everyone in Iraq, pretty much (that she pointed out we still need to protect ourselves from, I think it was).

Y'know, not all at once, ...now; but eventually those two pools are fed by the general population of Sunni & Shia.

 

We're currently paying $300/month to a million Sunni each (see the Sunni Awakening).

...so they can protect themselves (and so they will stop blowing us up too).

 

When Sarah says that those citable sources (I forget which General and AQ leader) say that the "central front in the war on terror is in Iraq," she doesn't mention that those quotes are from after we started the war. ...yknow, it wasn't the "central front" until we went in. Now maybe that's a good thing, that's debatable; but it shouldn't be a credible response to "our focus should have been on Afganistan...."

 

...sorry, I just had to rant a little....

 

~ :confused:

[questor]

If you want to know who is dumbing down schoolkids right now on a daily basis, read about the National Education Association. Read about the school situation in the District of Columbia. Read about other lousy schools and tell me who you think is causing the problem.

[Nitack]

If you want to know who is dumbing down schoolkids right now on a daily basis, read about the National Education Association. Read about the school situation in the District of Columbia. Read about other lousy schools and tell me who you think is causing the problem.

 

So your argument is that just because one group may be having an adverse effect on our children that it absolves other groups that have an adverse effect of responsibility? That would be a logical fallacy my friend.

[Spiked Blood]

Am I to believe that Palin didn't make a fool of herself again? That sucks, I was so hoping for some light entertainment. I don't think I want to watch the VP debate now.

[freeztar]

Am I to believe that Palin didn't make a fool of herself again? That sucks, I was so hoping for some light entertainment. I don't think I want to watch the VP debate now.

 

I'd still recommend watching it. There are some humorous moments, like Biden basically (and accidentally) stating he is gay and Palin making bad jokes and such. IMO, she did make a fool of herself, but not nearly as bad as the Couric interview.

[questor]

I don't defend the unbelievable Golden Parachute packages some CEO's get. Why don't their board of directors prevent it? Unless you are a stockholder, it doesn't directly affect you.

[alexander]

Just watched it (turns out its a bit hard to find the debate online) but i did, and i did watch it.

First and foremost, i wanted to slap Palin silly, every time she said "Nucular", and i wanted to slap Biden for not calling her on that, i mean it would have made my day, if he interrupted her speach one of those times and said "Hold on, for just a second, but i can't take this anymore. Palin, you seem to speak elequantly and use words that tend to confuse most americans because this debate was the first time in their lives they have heard them, but I HAVE to correct you, the word is NUCLEAR, not Nucular, NUCLEAR, N U C L E A R."

 

but aside from that i have problems with both stand points:

 

Palin:

There is no such thing as "winning" the war on terror, there is no such thing as destroying Al-Quaeda, they dont all hide in the hills of afghanistan/pakistan.

 

Biden:

Claims of "Loving" Isreal, I don't know when you checked your history and foreign relations last, but the worst thing Bush administration did since Iraq, was totally ignoring, and dismissin Iran. No matter what the efforts now, Iran used to be a partner of the US, it is now a sworn enemy, the current administration totally failed in negotiations, and you know what, most countries in the region prefer Iran to Isreal.

 

Palin:

Drill, baby, drill, you claim that you understand the "cause" of global warming, and you side with the side that says that it's mostly due to humans, great, yet you are supporting the US drilling efforts, which is totally devastating to populations of multiple species in the arctic region, you are supporting drilling for oil, problem is, oil is what caused this "gobal warming" thing you seem to understand, to begin with..... (in simple terms without going into an essay about this point)

 

Biden:

Same issue, great, you supported funding for bio fuels, and alternative energy.... Where is it? Where is it? Clean burning coal plants are not clean nor do they fit in this category, solar produces tons of waste at initial processing, and we buy it all from china, there have not been major government investments into wind/water farming, there have not been any signifficant increase in solar plants, and neither of you are proposing a nuclear upgrade to decrease the amount of pollution!

 

Palin:

Start answering direct questions

 

Biden

Stop reiterating something Palin did not answer

 

Palin:

sounds like her job at the office is to be quiet and go play with something you have been doing on a local gov-t scale type of deal, while your boss runs the country without any real support. He claims that he can win Iraq like they were "winning" Nam....

 

Biden:

Needs to stop contradicting what he says in a matter of minutes

 

... its late, be back in the morning to finish the thoughs

[pgrmdave]

I think that the reason he didn't correct her (or really attack her at all) was so that he wasn't seen to be attacking a woman nor seem condescending. I'm sure that he wanted to correct her on her many simple mistakes, but it would have been political folly to do so.

[coldcreation]

...

First and foremost, i wanted to slap Palin silly, every time she said "Nucular", and i wanted to slap Biden for not calling her on that, i mean it would have made my day, if he interrupted her speach one of those times and said "Hold on, for just a second, but i can't take this anymore. Palin, you seem to speak elequantly and use words that tend to confuse most americans because this debate was the first time in their lives they have heard them, but I HAVE to correct you, the word is NUCLEAR, not Nucular, NUCLEAR, N U C L E A R."...

 

 

 

The important thing is not how someone pronounces a word, but the context in which the intended word is used.

 

In the case of Sarah Palin, this is what she said during the VP debate, and this is what was important to retain:

 

 

PALIN: There -- with new technology' date=' with tiny footprints even on land, it is safe to drill and we need to do more of that. But also in that "all of the above" approach that Senator McCain supports, the alternative fuels will be tapped into: the [b']nuclear[/b], the clean coal. [...]

 

An armed, nuclear armed especially Iran is so extremely dangerous to consider. They cannot be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons period. Israel is in jeopardy of course when we're dealing with Ahmadinejad as a leader of Iran. Iran claiming that Israel as he termed it, a stinking corpse, a country that should be wiped off the face of the earth.

 

Now a leader like Ahmadinejad who is not sane or stable when he says things like that is not one whom we can allow to acquire nuclear energy, nuclear weapons. Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong Il, the Castro brothers, others who are dangerous dictators are one that Barack Obama has said he would be willing to meet with without preconditions being met first.

 

And an issue like that taken up by a presidential candidate goes beyond naivete and goes beyond poor judgment. A statement that he made like that is downright dangerous because leaders like Ahmadinejad who would seek to acquire nuclear weapons and wipe off the face of the earth an ally like we have in Israel should not be met with without preconditions and diplomatic efforts being undertaken first. [...]

 

Nuclear weaponry, of course, would be the be all, end all of just too many people in too many parts of our planet, so those dangerous regimes, again, cannot be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons, period.

 

Our nuclear weaponry here in the U.S. is used as a deterrent. And that's a safe, stable way to use nuclear weaponry.

 

But for those countries -- North Korea, also, under Kim Jong-il -- we have got to make sure that we're putting the economic sanctions on these countries and that we have friends and allies supporting us in this to make sure that leaders like Kim Jong-il and Ahmadinejad are not allowed to acquire, to proliferate, or to use those nuclear weapons. It is that important.

 

SOURCE: Transcript: The Vice-Presidential Debate, New York Times

 

It would have been meaningless (or useless) to attack Palin on this. Just as it would have been nonsensical for Palin to attack Biden on his mispronunciation of the name Barack Obama (I counted at least three times).

 

The fact is Sarah Palin was extremely effective in her handling of the debate on all fronts, considering her opponent had 35 years of experience to back him up. For that disequilibrium alone she gets an A+ in my book.

 

And I reiterate, Biden too did very well. But for the above reason, and the fact that her closing statement reproduced further above was so powerful compared to Biden's (in which his use of the word "God" stood out like a sore thumb), Palin definitely came out on top.

 

That is why she is being attacked (as repeatedly here in this thread) on grounds that have no base (pronunciation, lipstick color, whatever) and totally irrelevant.

 

 

CC

[freeztar]

But also in that "all of the above" approach that Senator McCain supports, the alternative fuels will be tapped into: the nuclear, the clean coal.

 

Nuclear power and "clean" coal are not alternative fuels. :)

 

Palin's refusal to answer the question addressed to her is the single biggest factor in my disgust for her performance. I was a bit discouraged that the debate moderator did not try harder to keep Palin on-topic, though it might have been seen as biased because Biden would have needed very little moderation for this in comparison.