Aggression and Defensive measures in non-sentient beings

[Theory5]

I have just finished reading the science fiction book "Computer One" by Warwick Collins. It was published around the 1990's but I love to read those type of books because they have funny ideas on how the future (like the 2000's) will turn out. In this book, the main character Yakuda poses and interesting theory on how aggression is really just defense and self preservation at work. Correct me if this has been proven wrong but there hasn't been any aggressive structures or certain parts of the brain that react only when an animal is aggressive. But there are many documented structures and parts of the brain that act specifically in defense.

I volunteer at an MSPCA near my home and if I look at any staff members forearms I will see at least a couple scratches from cats. These cats don't randomly act out. Those cuts are from them doing various things to help the cats, i.e. shots, shaving off those clump things, and cleaning the cats(flea baths that sort of thing). I will use cats as an example because any dogs that are aggressive people tend to have put down. The MSPCA does that also :-(

Cats can get away with being slightly "aggressive" as long as they don't bit or scratch when they want to harm. (Then they get a "time out" a couple days in a back room.) They do have a room called the "cat lounge" where a bunch of cats (10-12 at the most but usually around 5) live in a vague recreation of a home (chair, small bed, and a bunch of kitty structures). And as you probably know every cat has a different personality. There is Oreo who has been there for a couple of months cause she is "aggressive" and acts like she is going to bit you when she is aggravated. She likes to be with other cats but doesn't like to interact. The biggest thing Ive noticed was when a cat goes near another cat they hiss and one backs off. Thus indicating that cats like to have their own personal "bubble". A bubble, unlike territory, is a certain space around something, that moves whenever that person or cat moves. This could be a comfortable range where the cat doesn't feel threatened by another cat. Its late and I will add stuff in response to your questions but consider this:

If you walk between a mother bear and her cub, is she protecting her offspring, or acting out aggressively?

If a dog has been abused all its life, and you try to do something to it, like put on a leash, and the dog has been choked, will it try to resist because of self preservation?

[Moontanman]

I have just finished reading the science fiction book "Computer One" by Warwick Collins. It was published around the 1990's but I love to read those type of books because they have funny ideas on how the future (like the 2000's) will turn out. In this book, the main character Yakuda poses and interesting theory on how aggression is really just defense and self preservation at work. Correct me if this has been proven wrong but there hasn't been any aggressive structures or certain parts of the brain that react only when an animal is aggressive. But there are many documented structures and parts of the brain that act specifically in defense.

I volunteer at an MSPCA near my home and if I look at any staff members forearms I will see at least a couple scratches from cats. These cats don't randomly act out. Those cuts are from them doing various things to help the cats, i.e. shots, shaving off those clump things, and cleaning the cats(flea baths that sort of thing). I will use cats as an example because any dogs that are aggressive people tend to have put down. The MSPCA does that also :-(

Cats can get away with being slightly "aggressive" as long as they don't bit or scratch when they want to harm. (Then they get a "time out" a couple days in a back room.) They do have a room called the "cat lounge" where a bunch of cats (10-12 at the most but usually around 5) live in a vague recreation of a home (chair, small bed, and a bunch of kitty structures). And as you probably know every cat has a different personality. There is Oreo who has been there for a couple of months cause she is "aggressive" and acts like she is going to bit you when she is aggravated. She likes to be with other cats but doesn't like to interact. The biggest thing Ive noticed was when a cat goes near another cat they hiss and one backs off. Thus indicating that cats like to have their own personal "bubble". A bubble, unlike territory, is a certain space around something, that moves whenever that person or cat moves. This could be a comfortable range where the cat doesn't feel threatened by another cat. Its late and I will add stuff in response to your questions but consider this:

If you walk between a mother bear and her cub, is she protecting her offspring, or acting out aggressively?

If a dog has been abused all its life, and you try to do something to it, like put on a leash, and the dog has been choked, will it try to resist because of self preservation?

 

I have to say that in dogs agression can be defensive in nature. I love dogs, especially basset hounds, My favorte dog currently (I've been keeping these dogs for over 30 years so I have had several favs over the years) My current fav is a basset I rescued from an abusive situation. he was so scared he would bite anyone who touched him. Way off the charts for basset behavior. It took me three months of getting bit everytime I touched him but I didn't punish him other than a gentle scolding. After about three months he suddenly stopped being agressive and started following me around like I was his whole world. He insisted on sitting in my lap anytime I was sitting a sleeps under my copmputer when I am online. he sleeps at the foot of my bed with his head on my foot. He won't let me out of his sight. he also saved my life a few months ago. his turn around was so complete and so sudden it was difficult to belive. but his behavior was classical agression out of fear.

[Theory5]

...his behavior was classical aggression out of fear.

 

Dictionary.com states that aggression is defined as any "offensive action, attack, or procedure".

But in animals, when are they really truly aggressive? When something climbs into an animals den, and that thing is killed or chased out, is that classified as aggression? Of course not.

But when someone steps into an animals cage, or territory, and is attacked, that is labeled as aggression.

Just as when a bear or other feral animal wanders into human territory its called aggressive, or they say it doesn't fear people anymore. Fear is supposed to govern most animals and peoples instincts. Once an animal realizes it has nothing to fear from humans, or that it can rip open their chest with one bat of its paw, it switches to its next instinct; i.e. foraging for food.

So I ask, if fear governs most animals as the dominate instinct how can it be aggressive?

And if it gets over its fear, what would be its next instinct or objective?

to put it simply: food.

Now at the MSPCA the staff test each dog for certain things. One such test is a temperment test. They give the dog food, and the try to take it away. Now, most dogs consider humans part of their "pack". Maybe as one would allow more tolerances for small children or mentally ill people, dogs might think of us like that and thus allow more tolerences for us(or as the person that feeds them). So most dogs don't care if their food is taken away or they are petted when they are eating. But the few that do are considered aggressive. Why? Well, its possible that their instincts override their ability to think clearly. Its their food, and when they lived in the wild before humans domesticated them they never knew when they could kill another thing for food. Its based around the same reason of why you don't just let your dogs eat as much as they want.

[Moontanman]

Dictionary.com states that aggression is defined as any "offensive action, attack, or procedure".

But in animals, when are they really truly aggressive? When something climbs into an animals den, and that thing is killed or chased out, is that classified as aggression? Of course not.

But when someone steps into an animals cage, or territory, and is attacked, that is labeled as aggression.

Just as when a bear or other feral animal wanders into human territory its called aggressive, or they say it doesn't fear people anymore. Fear is supposed to govern most animals and peoples instincts. Once an animal realizes it has nothing to fear from humans, or that it can rip open their chest with one bat of its paw, it switches to its next instinct; i.e. foraging for food.

So I ask, if fear governs most animals as the dominate instinct how can it be aggressive?

And if it gets over its fear, what would be its next instinct or objective?

to put it simply: food.

Now at the MSPCA the staff test each dog for certain things. One such test is a temperment test. They give the dog food, and the try to take it away. Now, most dogs consider humans part of their "pack". Maybe as one would allow more tolerances for small children or mentally ill people, dogs might think of us like that and thus allow more tolerences for us(or as the person that feeds them). So most dogs don't care if their food is taken away or they are petted when they are eating. But the few that do are considered aggressive. Why? Well, its possible that their instincts override their ability to think clearly. Its their food, and when they lived in the wild before humans domesticated them they never knew when they could kill another thing for food. Its based around the same reason of why you don't just let your dogs eat as much as they want.

 

So are you saying that I shold have put down the dog I rescued? He is one of the best behaved dogs I've ever had. In thirty years I have always free fed my dogs. Food is availible all the time. They eat a bit here and a bit there. Food is never an issue and they are never aggresive of food.

[Ahmabeliever]

I have an agressive cat. She'll take pats from everyone, mooch for them even, but if she doesn't want a pat she'll draw blood before any warning. I can see it coming if she's very slightly hunched, now... most don't see it coming.

[Theory5]

So are you saying that I should have put down the dog I rescued? He is one of the best behaved dogs I've ever had. In thirty years I have always free fed my dogs. Food is available all the time. They eat a bit here and a bit there. Food is never an issue and they are never aggressive of food.

 

Whoa. I never said that. I'm just putting up what I have observed in an effort to support my theory. I never said I agree/disagree with what the MSPCA does, and I'm not even a part of it.

As for the food I was using that also to support my idea of how animals aren't aggressive, they act out in defense.

The MSPCA doesn't free feed their dogs and I have heard stuff about people giving dogs as much as they want but those dogs aren't bright enough to know when to stop eating because of that instinct.

There are always exceptions or animals that act differently than expected. for example, some animals understand that young kids are to be treated gently. Most dogs in a family might allow the young kids to hit them or pull their tail, but if the children's parent was to do that i don't think the dog would react kindly most of the time. My dad always says that German Shepard's are a good womens dog. Ive seen a dogs bounce around, tug at my clothes, wanting to play or wrestle. But I have seen those same dogs sit still and let little children reach into their cage and pet them.

Yea there are dogs that have been abused and everything and then when they get better they are very lovable and show no sign of what happened to them.

All im trying to do is support my aggression is just defense theory. Im not saying what you should of done, and Its great that you kept him. Its uplifting to see that there are people who like animals and don't take them for granite and who understand that animals have their own personalities and make their own decisions. Unlike those people who are so single minded that they disown their animals if medical problems become to much, or if they dont like what their animals do. One guy actually brought a cat back because all the cat did was eat and sleep.

[Cedars]

If you walk between a mother bear and her cub, is she protecting her offspring, or acting out aggressively?

If a dog has been abused all its life, and you try to do something to it, like put on a leash, and the dog has been choked, will it try to resist because of self preservation?

 

I think theres a blurring of situations here. The MSPCA guidelines are not based on animal behavior so much as its based on people behavior. Too many animals needing homes and a general public that has a pretty good chance of wanting a dog/cat that doesnt present any issues. With time, a significant number of these 'problem' animals could be trained out of their behavior. But time is money for these non-profits. So the process is based on being able to place the most animals with the least cost and blow-back from the general public that consumes this product. But this isnt your question.

 

To answer the question, it is possible to think of aggressive behavior as a defensive and self-preservation. Territory battles are defensive or self-preservation. The fight to be top dog, top lion, etc can be broken down to a self-preservation. And then there are the ones (domestics) which will not become lassie forever. They can have good days, months, years, and then something happens and they tear up a poodle, or the mailman, or the neighbor kid seemingly unprovoked.

 

As far as the basset hound story, its an example of the basic stability of the dog. It was removed from its abuse and learned it did not need that behavior. I've seen this done with other dogs who went on to live the rest of their lives without an issue. Although Theory5 has cleared up they didnt mean to imply the basset should be put down, I would add I dont think the basset is a wasted effort either. But this is not to say this or the other dogs were cured and will never revert back to its previous defense mechanism should it encounter a trigger event. And there are some dogs who never come back or relapse suddenly. And it is this possibility that the MSPCA bases its decisions on also.

 

An example: I just took a cat in to the vet which was displaying symptoms of bladder infection. Test results came back fine and the vet discussed a 'syndrome' they see in cats (mostly female) which cause these symptoms. Basically the cat is perceiving some stress and the body is reacting to this. The puzzle factor is, what I consider stress is not always what a particular cat perceives as stress. We have several things it could be including the birds which have been rooting around in the yard very close to a window. Other things discussed are changes in work hours causing stress for an animals (not this case) people moving out of the house (yes, even though they visit alot and spend nights) a change in food (yes) and a host of other things seemingly not a big deal things including the addition of gerbils as pets (imagine adding a baby to a dog/cats life that suffers head issues from stress).

[Moontanman]

I hope my basset doesn't revert to his former behavior. He is much more dominant that most bassets i've had but in my experince the more dominant dogs appear to be smarter and make better pets. At least in bassets. I have had dogs that would, when a new dog was introduced, start to over eat but this behavior mostly dissapears as they get used to the new dog.

[Cedars]

I hope my basset doesn't revert to his former behavior. He is much more dominant that most bassets i've had but in my experince the more dominant dogs appear to be smarter and make better pets. At least in bassets. I have had dogs that would, when a new dog was introduced, start to over eat but this behavior mostly dissapears as they get used to the new dog.

 

Dominant dogs often bring issues into a house. They eventually want to move up in the pack (be treated as equals to the head person in the house). Displays of these attempts can be as simple as not allowing other dogs onto a spot (Its my couch) to biting other dogs/insisting on being first and alone at the water/food dish, to constant hovering over a particular dog. That stiff legged, over the neck, you dont move thing. And they often attach themselves to the dominant person in the home. This does tend to fall along gender lines also. The top female attaches to the top woman, the top male attaches to the top man in the house.

 

Its complicated by the individual dog personalities involved. You can have 4 dogs in a house, one whos top dog and 3 who just dont care. And you dont want to promote 'jealosy', so throwing the top dog off the couch and letting the subordinate dog onto the couch can provoke a more serious encounter the next time the sub dog goes to the water dish (I cant protect my couch so now its MY waterdish). So nobody gets to be on the couch, its for people only, or you give the dom one end of the couch and the sub the other (dependent on degree of aggression).

 

Some of the ways we promoted the "there is no second in command in this house pack" was through obedience training and doing things like Down Stay for the dominant dog for time periods when sub-dogs were active (not dinner, not going outside, not at high stress level minutes) and the Down Stay spot has to be out of the way. A certain corner in the room, behind a chair, someplace the sub dogs can avoid also, so they are not threatening the dom. Theres a subliminal signal there. Dogs show submission by laying down and exposing their belly. In the down - stay the dom dog wasnt exposing the belly, but still gives the sub dogs a signal of peaceful and reinforces for both personality types that the human is in command always.

 

And you have to avoid putting the dom into known trigger events. We had one dom (he was extreme alpha but a very valuable show dog) who would start a dogfight any time someone knocked on the door. What happened was all the dogs ran out to bark and someone would bump the dom. It was his job to protect and dammit your messing me up so he would unleash on the next male dog he saw (it didnt even have to be the one that bumped him). So if someone was coming over or up the driveway our first thing we did was put him in a crate or outside into the kennel by himself or with the lady dogs. And he did not get told NO for barking from the crate or kennel. It was stay, good dog. Stay is different than NO and this Alpha could not adapt to NO in this high stress moment. It would have been an impossible situation for his personality. But he could accept STAY. And when we were ambushed by a knock at the door? We called the male sub dog(s). BEAR, KITO, COME and keep them from getting to the door with the dom. They could accept COME because the dom was gonna get to the door.

 

Then you have to balance this with dogs need to be able to communicate with each other in dog and some dogs are more vocal, or display more, or are just basically crabby (or klutzy and stepping on the dom dogs toes all the time).

 

They are so much like a bunch of 2-3 year olds learning to share their favorite toys, but then, they are different too.

 

As far as dom/subs, its method of training and expectations by people. Subs come into their own later in life. Subs are followers, doms are leaders, so it appears the dom is learning faster, when its really the sub is happy to let the dom do all the work (and the dom includes the head of household), and not cause potential friction with the leader of the pack. They wont challenge you for the ball/frisbee/race for the water/wrestling/tug of war/etc and the word NO can crush them. Stay not NO. At around 3 they get confident enough in the pack order to become braver. Varied by personality.

[Moontanman]

Dominant dogs often bring issues into a house. They eventually want to move up in the pack (be treated as equals to the head person in the house). Displays of these attempts can be as simple as not allowing other dogs onto a spot (Its my couch) to biting other dogs/insisting on being first and alone at the water/food dish, to constant hovering over a particular dog. That stiff legged, over the neck, you dont move thing. And they often attach themselves to the dominant person in the home. This does tend to fall along gender lines also. The top female attaches to the top woman, the top male attaches to the top man in the house.

 

Its complicated by the individual dog personalities involved. You can have 4 dogs in a house, one whos top dog and 3 who just dont care. And you dont want to promote 'jealosy', so throwing the top dog off the couch and letting the subordinate dog onto the couch can provoke a more serious encounter the next time the sub dog goes to the water dish (I cant protect my couch so now its MY waterdish). So nobody gets to be on the couch, its for people only, or you give the dom one end of the couch and the sub the other (dependent on degree of aggression).

 

Some of the ways we promoted the "there is no second in command in this house pack" was through obedience training and doing things like Down Stay for the dominant dog for time periods when sub-dogs were active (not dinner, not going outside, not at high stress level minutes) and the Down Stay spot has to be out of the way. A certain corner in the room, behind a chair, someplace the sub dogs can avoid also, so they are not threatening the dom. Theres a subliminal signal there. Dogs show submission by laying down and exposing their belly. In the down - stay the dom dog wasnt exposing the belly, but still gives the sub dogs a signal of peaceful and reinforces for both personality types that the human is in command always.

 

And you have to avoid putting the dom into known trigger events. We had one dom (he was extreme alpha but a very valuable show dog) who would start a dogfight any time someone knocked on the door. What happened was all the dogs ran out to bark and someone would bump the dom. It was his job to protect and dammit your messing me up so he would unleash on the next male dog he saw (it didnt even have to be the one that bumped him). So if someone was coming over or up the driveway our first thing we did was put him in a crate or outside into the kennel by himself or with the lady dogs. And he did not get told NO for barking from the crate or kennel. It was stay, good dog. Stay is different than NO and this Alpha could not adapt to NO in this high stress moment. It would have been an impossible situation for his personality. But he could accept STAY. And when we were ambushed by a knock at the door? We called the male sub dog(s). BEAR, KITO, COME and keep them from getting to the door with the dom. They could accept COME because the dom was gonna get to the door.

 

Then you have to balance this with dogs need to be able to communicate with each other in dog and some dogs are more vocal, or display more, or are just basically crabby (or klutzy and stepping on the dom dogs toes all the time).

 

They are so much like a bunch of 2-3 year olds learning to share their favorite toys, but then, they are different too.

 

As far as dom/subs, its method of training and expectations by people. Subs come into their own later in life. Subs are followers, doms are leaders, so it appears the dom is learning faster, when its really the sub is happy to let the dom do all the work (and the dom includes the head of household), and not cause potential friction with the leader of the pack. They wont challenge you for the ball/frisbee/race for the water/wrestling/tug of war/etc and the word NO can crush them. Stay not NO. At around 3 they get confident enough in the pack order to become braver. Varied by personality.

 

I've seen a lot of what your saying in my dogs over the years, I try to discourage absolute dominance over things like water and food by having several sources of each with in the reach of all the dogs. They adapt to each other by eating at different times and in small amounts. My dogs at this point are all male but they were neutered at about four months so they really don't have as much dominance as most male dogs would. I should have been more specific about the dominence, all but one of the other bassets I've had were females, these males while more dominant than females are really only playing at being dominant compared to the one intact male I had. I do see the submissive dogs manipulating the dominate dog to get their way. It's kind of funny to watch. Basset hound males that have not been neutered are much more aggressive towards each other and seldom really tolerate other males. My all time favorite basset was a male named (yes:hihi:) Elvis;) He was a great dog, gentile with people, kids but he hated other male dogs and went out of his way to confront any other male he encountered. He was very large for a basset, just at the breed limit. He weighed 85 pounds and with hardly any fat. Just loose skin and muscle. He had a presence of domination that often other male dogs, even ones much bigger than him would cross the street to avoid walking past him. He was very protective of my boys and of my property. He would protect anything he saw me as having a link to. He would sleep in the turtle pen and allow the land turtles to walk up and bite him with out even blinking. One day he saw a rotweiler that had dug under the fence and attacked the turtles. The other dog tried to slip back under the fence with a turtle in his mouth and Elvis grabbed him by the rear end and drug him back through the fence and started to eat him alive. I had to go out and pull them apart and the other dog bit me for my trouble which of course caused Elvis to go nuts and I had to use the water hose to separate them again. I almost had to drown both of them! Elvis also pushed a chain link gate apart (actually bent the metal) to run across the street and attack two pit bulls that were running loose and were attacking my youngest son. Elvis ran both of them off after about a five minute dog fight. One of the pit bulls went away with one of his feet hanging from a thread. While I hated to see him fight other dogs he did save my son from being hurt seriously by the other dogs. I eventually managed to teach Elvis to at least tolerate other male dogs when we were walking but he never did allow other dogs to threaten any members of the family. As mean as he was with other dogs he was always kind and gentle to people, especially children. He died of old age, he spent his last two years laying in my lap. He became fearful of everything then he lost his eye sight then his hearing, his sense of smell and finally his ability to walk. The vet said he had a brain disease, probably got it from catching and eating squirrels. I had to have him put down, most difficult thing I ever had to do. I miss him badly. Even though I loved Elvis I really considered him a failure, my fault for not being able to find a way to at least deflect his aggression towards other dogs.

[Cedars]

I've seen a lot of what your saying in my dogs over the years, I try to discourage absolute dominance over things like water and food by having several sources of each with in the reach of all the dogs. They adapt to each other by eating at different times and in small amounts. My dogs at this point are all male but they were neutered at about four months so they really don't have as much dominance as most male dogs would.

Our feeding pattern evolved over the years as the pack formed and changed. We started seeing the dom female guarding the food dish all day so if this was seen the dog was chased off and not allowed to lay there. Eventually we changed the program to two feedings a day, same pattern every time. Dogs out in the morn to go potty. In they came and to their designated food spots. Dom female and male went into their own crate (same one each feeding). We raised dogs so we had a perma-gate separating kitchen from rest of house. This allowed one -two additional dogs feeding in kitchen (subs were good about not confronting the other dog (but you had to keep in mind if a particular sub was being picked on by the dom m/f you wanted to feed them in the other part of the house with gate shut so dom didnt get jealous).

 

There were times when we had 8 g. shepards of varied ages in the house (holding them for people, watching growth for show potential, retired dogs, and the main show/breeder dogs), and this isnt counting pup litters. During these times it was a two step op, and the doms feed first and out into the kennel while the rest feasted.

 

Then the dogs were fed before the people in the evening. Less stress if the dogs were not hungry too.

Basset hound males that have not been neutered are much more aggressive towards each other and seldom really tolerate other males. My all time favorite basset was a male named (yes:hihi:) Elvis;) He had a presence of domination that often other male dogs, even ones much bigger than him would cross the street to avoid walking past him. He was very protective of my boys and of my property. He would protect anything he saw me as having a link to. I eventually managed to teach Elvis to at least tolerate other male dogs when we were walking but he never did allow other dogs to threaten any members of the family. Even though I loved Elvis I really considered him a failure, my fault for not being able to find a way to at least deflect his aggression towards other dogs.

Sounds alpha to me. They are a handful.

 

The walking is an excellent example of using the proper words so the dog can function in public. What happens is your dog is walking along and sees the competition. So he may turn towards that dog and growl, or puff up doing the stiff legged stuff and you say Elvis NO. The dog isnt sure of what part of his actions are NO. And your never gonna get an Alpha from stopping the stiff leg, or the growling but you can manipulate it via HEEL. Elvis HEEL. This tells the dog the command you want (which prevents the turning) He can still throw out the puffery while heeling. And you dont have to say NO. No is an absolute command. NO taking food off the coffee table. NO lifting your leg in the house to mark something as yours. But you cant say NO to the water bowl. The dog has to use it later. When we chased the dog away from guarding the food bowl it was MOVE. Move was used for alot of things and not only related to the food bowl. Carrying in grocerys and the dogs greeting you at the door. Move.

 

I personally recommend to everyone to take a dog through a basic obedience course. Books are great but hands on with trainers they can figure out methods to train dogs with so many varied personalities. And you learn from their handling of your classmates dogs, should you end up with the super-subordinate (the dog that rolls over and pee's itself everytime you smile at it) or the Alpha in the future. A person only has to take one dog through a training course and they have learned so many helpful tricks. And if you have kids, you give them a tool as valuable as carpentry or car repair basics that they will use if they have a family and kids or even a companion dog when they move out on their own.

[Cedars]

I just wanted to throw this in here. NO has been discussed some. Its used for something that never changes. Its a behavior that is never acceptable. Another harsher example was run in the Star Tribune about 20 years ago. A woman was jogging with her dog and a man punched her in the face and tried to drag her off the trail. The dog just stood there. The attack on her was stopped via other joggers coming along the same path. The article went on about her getting mad at her dog for not coming to her aid, until she realized she had inadvertently trained her dog to do just that. Someone knocked at her door and the dog barked. NO dog. Meter readers coming into her yard and the dog barked. NO dog. Eventually the dog had stopped barking.

 

STAY is an absolute command. Your dog must do this now. Here's an example of why STAY as an absolute is helpful. Your dog wanders across the road. Its not supposed to do this, but these things happen. You come outside or stand up from weeding the flowers, or whatever it is and the dog sees you and comes towards you. But theres a car coming and the dog is safer in the yard across the street than making the dash home (or you cant see if a car is coming). STAY Dog STAY. And your dog freezes in place until you give the release command COME. Another part of stay (not good for showing obedience dogs but reveals personality), a major sub dog will often lay down when stay is shouted in the above situation, a dom dog will often stay standing (or get up from a sitting position like in alert mode but not move).

 

COME is like STAY. The dog has to do it now. Kids coming down the road on bikes and your dumb dog likes to chase. Or the dog is a squirrel chaser, gets into the Target Aquired Missile launched light speed death run. But the squirrel is across the street. You gotta be able to break this run instantly. Some dogs are so intent you gotta break it with a loud clap then shout the command COME.

 

And you never use the command COME to discipline your dog. The fastest way to unlearn a dog is to use COME and then the dog gets into trouble. Go to the dog and then discipline. Or use its name without the word COME attached (last resort).

 

And every time a dog does not respond immediately to these absolute commands you have to stop what your doing, throw the leash on and spend 3-5 minutes reinforcing the command. A quick training session. Dogs dont like this and learn if I do it right now, I wont have to spend a bunch of time doing it over and over.

 

So much like 3 year olds. But still different.