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Organized crime thoughts.


Ganoderma
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I have been thinking about this lots over the years. I am from canada and the only "real" gang activity is Hells Angels ans some smaller gangs, although Asian gangs are getting bigger it seems.

 

I am in Taiwan now, which is overall a safe country. But gangs (there are LOTS) are a bit of a problem here. Unlike the Hells angels which stay at least a little low key, many members here are rather hot headed. you may see a line of motorcycles holding swords in the air as the go to their race spot. this means everyone better damn well stop for them...

 

it is not uncommon to see in the news a person getting beaten to death in some form or another. In fact last year there was a high up government official (i think he was a senator) shot to death in the middle of the day in his own office...gang related. This senator was strongly opposed to gang activity (wonder why he as shot). it is also illegal to own guns here, for everyone so they are a hot black market item.

 

to the reason i am posting this. a couple days ago a guy i know who is no bad *** or even hot head was driving his truck (big dump truck) and got lost. he turned around on a tiny road in the country and it took a very long time (back and forth etc). there was a guy in a taxi vey very pissed off and cursing. after a while he got turned around and they parted ways, pretty unhappy.

 

day after 3 taxi's show up at the gravel pit he works at. they ask the security gaurd where this man was and the security gaurd told them (security gaurds are pretty much panzies here, as are most people when it comes to gang members). so these 3 taxis (i think they said 17 people in total) went to this man and beat him with bats/poles. The hospital said that what used to be in his head was not now and he somehow did not die until he arrived at the hospital. Very grusome beating.

 

they arrested one man and are questioning him. the problem here is (especially in the country) these gangs are pretty damn rich, and often buy off the police, judges etc. so nothing really happens. people complain and try to do what is right, and are shown what happens when you play with gangs.

 

being a white guy in Taiwan is pretty safe. in fact i often say hello, play and speak English with quite a few of these gang members cause people here just like white folks.

 

i guess what i am wondering is what you guys think about something so terrible as having your head literally beat IN and brains beat OUT why does nothing happen? there are many things like this in the news here, but this one was a guy i knew and in my town (very small town) so it really got me thinking. the very same day there was a very large fight between about 50 students at the junior high school here. there are local gang "hangouts" here that kids often frequent. it is actually quite sad.

 

what do you do when teh police will sell you to the gangs, the peopel are too scared to fight for their family members death and the kids are hanging out with these people....being a ESL teacher here i feel very sad seeing my students in tehse situations and we have many conversations with parents....but everyone is honestly so far past afraid it has become kind of normal to them....

 

this is not all the people of course, tehre are many nice good people....one bad apple type story.

 

what are your thoughts about organized (or should it jsut be called wealthy) gang violence...especially on the public or officials?

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Ganoderma

what do you do when teh police will sell you to the gangs' date=' the peopel are too scared to fight for their family members death and the kids are hanging out with these people....

 

<-->

 

this is not all the people of course, tehre are many nice good people....one bad apple type story.

 

what are your thoughts about organized (or should it jsut be called wealthy) gang violence...especially on the public or officials? [/quote']

 

This is a sad state of affairs that NOT one person can deal with alone,

it will have to be a neighborhood that stands up to the gangs,

then it could grow to the whole city.

 

But from what you have said (and what I've read) I wouldn't make waves without a lot of support.

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Much gang activity can be traced to the break up of the family. The young men don't have father figures and structured families, so they find that within the gang. It becomes sort of their family with the leaders, dad.

 

Many gangs are into illegal activities. These are some of the highest paying jobs one can get without an education. In a capitalist culture they are making good economic decisions, since this path can bring the most money. It is not a moral decision but strictly economic/business.

 

In a lot of ways, the gang lifestyle is war in a microcosm. Each gangs sets the gang boundaries, often with markers. If an enemy invades that land, they can defend it or even preemptive strike to increase security. Even if an enemy bad mouths you, you can impose economic sanctions but moving into their tuff. Or take it to the streets, since they insulted one's honor. There is a military mentality, with constant training and equipment needed. If the other team gets better guns, then you also need to try to upgrade.

 

There is a chain of command like in any army. Rather than take written tests to advance it is done with other tests of commitment. To move up the ranks one may have to get dirty. They don't have elections but rather work by the principles of survival of the fittest. They are good Darwinists. They don't allow all that religious moral mush soften them, i.e., good atheists.

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yes that is how many of them work. a little different than the west, the gangs her are incredibly religious (as are most Taiwanese). in fact the majority of their tattoo work are various religious figures such as gods and power animals.

 

the main temple right beside us is supported by one of the local gangs and literally gives then hundreds of thousands of (US) dollars to run things like new year events etc. there is likely $700,000 (US) spent in just fireworks a year at this one temple for various ceremonies...and we have 67 temples in our 30,000 people town....lots of money gets thrown around.

 

 

Doug, Freeztar. i completely agree, as does everyone. you stand up to them alone (or even in numbers) you will get blown down fast, or worse your family and friends will suffer. which is why no one does anything, including myself. The big problem is you don't know where to go for help cause some police are crooked and its a little risky.

 

here it is not like the US where they are street gangs. these guys have their fingers everywhere from government to low things like gravel pits and taxi's etc.

 

An acquaintance of mine that i do a lot of plat business with (he breeds them for fun) used to be a state senator. He never outright said it, but i can tell from his tattoo's he is/was a higher up gang member. this is a highly educated retired government official with a great education. it just really shocks at how many levels the gang activity is active on, so how can even a nation stand up to it if it has corrupted every level of it?

 

i am certainly not going to be a hero, but there has to be something to do about something like this....i could not imagine my own wife being beaten to death (slow death) and not do anything about it....i honestly could not even imagine it.

 

 

 

I totally hear what your saying Hydrogenbond, but it is beyond business....it is organized chaos. when i first moved here i was told (usually my wife is not so serious and just suggests) do not get mad at anyone driving black Mercedes as they are usually in a gang and you may not live to go to court if you piss them off. Taiwan drivers are probably the worst in the world lol so i get pretty pissy sometimes, but people do get beat or killed yelling at the wrong bad driver.

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Ganoderma

Doug' date=' Freeztar. i completely agree, as does everyone. you stand up to them alone (or even in numbers) you will get blown down fast, or worse your family and friends will suffer. which is why no one does anything, including myself. The big problem is you don't know where to go for help cause some police are crooked and its a little risky.

 

here it is not like the US where they are street gangs. these guys have their fingers everywhere from government to low things like gravel pits and taxi's etc.

 

An acquaintance of mine that i do a lot of plat business with (he breeds them for fun) used to be a state senator. He never outright said it, but i can tell from his tattoo's he is/was a higher up gang member. this is a highly educated retired government official with a great education. it just really shocks at how many levels the gang activity is active on, so how can even a nation stand up to it if it has corrupted every level of it?

 

i am certainly not going to be a hero, but there has to be something to do about something like this....i could not imagine my own wife being beaten to death (slow death) and not do anything about it....i honestly could not even imagine it. [/quote']

 

I found some articles on this, it might give you or the rest of our Hypo crew some insight as to the scope of the problem there.

 

White Wolf Zhang says the clock can't be turned back. "Many brothers are now in the stock' date=' finance and construction industries," says the honorary godfather, who holds five bachelor's degrees, three from American universities and two earned while he served a 10-year sentence at the U.S. federal penitentiary at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, for conspiring to buy heroin. "Many are now doing legitimate business. Where do you want them to go back to? To prostitution, to gambling and to numbers rackets?"

 

The United Bamboo was founded 40 years ago by a handful of teen-aged sons of senior officers in Chiang Kai-shek's KMT army who had encamped in Taiwan rather than be crushed by Mao Zedong's advancing Communists. Disenchanted by the humiliation of their fathers, the young rebels joined forces to fight other gangs along Bamboo Forest Road on the outskirts of Taipei.

<-->

Before he left Taiwan, White Wolf was a popular figure on TV talk shows and in newspapers and magazines, acting as an advocate for all of Taiwan's secret societies. Now, under the Anti-Hooligan Law passed last December, anyone who is a member of a so-called hai dao bang pai (black society) can be arrested. "You shouldn't say that just because I'm a brother, I'm a criminal," says Zhang. "If I didn't commit a crime, I'm not a criminal."

 

Secret societies have been a tradition in Chinese culture for thousands of years, Zhang says, and Taiwan will never succeed in wiping them out. Neighborhoods are kept clean of petty crime, he continues, with violence meted out selectively, to deserving targets and not to ordinary members of the public.

<-->

"Yes, secret societies have been a part of Chinese history," says Taiwan's popular Minister of State Ma Ying-jeou. "They have their own justice. But that type of justice is part of an agricultural society. We are an industrial, commercial society today. You can't take justice into your own hands. The days of Robin Hood are over." [/quote']

 

 

Taiwan Matters!: More on the White Wolf

 

Taiwan's rulers clamp down on old Triad allies

 

Taiwan's government is claiming that almost one in six of Triad gang members have revoked their membership just in time to avoid prosecution under draconian new anti-gang laws which are so far-reaching as to be causing concern among human rights groups.

 

As of midnight yesterday' date=' prosecutors will be able to act against any grouping of more than three people who are believed to be associating for the purpose of taking part in criminal activities or participating in criminal behaviour classified as "habitual, violent and in threatening patterns".

 

The new law, which comes into force today, is so loose as to allow the prosecution of political party members and members of social clubs who may be suspected of having criminal intentions. The inclusion of political party members is not without foundation because, according to the Justice Ministry, 286 out of the 858 elected representatives at local government level are involved in Triad activities. Many legislators are also suspected of having close Triad associations, and the construction industry, property development and the entertainment industries are riddled with organised crime connections. Public concern over the growth and strength of criminal gangs lies behind the new laws which also lower the standards for the burden of proof to secure convictions. Newspapers and radio talk shows are filled with members of the public expressing fears that Taiwan is being submerged under the influence of Triad gangs. "The direction of opinion is moving towards an undesirable result that exploits public discontent against gangs and their newly-acquired status in politics," said Kao Ruey-jeng, president of the Taipei Bar Association. "Even if the government says it wants to send all gangsters to hell, the people will say `yes'." [/quote']

 

Taiwan's rulers clamp down on old Triad allies | Independent, The (London) | Find Articles at BNET.com

 

 

You are not alone, hang in there and BE SAFE!

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interesting reads, thanks!

 

i was going to mention about the lack of petty crime around, but our neighbours beater car was just stolen this weekend...

 

certainly much more than where i have been in canada/usa though.

 

but i think that statement is misleading as there is very serious crime commited over very petty things (such as that man murdered over road rage). honestly, i could not care less about gangs fighting it out, their business....but teh public getting caught in it is tough, as we all know.

 

and like the man said, if he did not do a crime, he is not a criminal. it's easy to get the new guys to do the dirty work, and they do with a temper many times. i like how it mentions that many gangs are actually getting more "legit". in a way this is true, they are into many levels of business....but they get there and stay there by "getting rid of" competition and people that may drag them down....these methods are not often too legit. Taiwan is a democracy in every way, but there is a definite feel of dictatorship in certain circumstances. but its not like its just one gang, there are many. big and small. some business, some hard heads, some nice some mean.

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