Mom and dad were heroes

[coberst]

Mom and dad were heroes

 

I was born in 1934 during the Great Depression. Dad drove a city bus in Amarillo Texas. My family moved to a very small town in Oklahoma before my first birthday; I had four siblings at the time we moved from Texas to Oklahoma to manage a small café and hotel that was then being managed by my uncle who wished to return to farming.

 

During the next 15 years my family managed that café and hotel. The building and the business was owned by an absentee landlord, Mr. Ruttzel. The operation was a 24/7 job that took the total energies of all members of the family as each of us became old enough to work.

 

This operation allowed my parents to raise a large family in reasonably comfortable conditions throughout the depression and war years of World War II.

 

What is the meaning of ‘hero’? I have taken one definition from the dictionary and have modified it to represent my comprehension of this concept of ‘heroic’. Heroic is a concept meaning a “determined effort [directed to achieve good or deter evil] in the face of difficulty”. In this definition I define ‘good’ as being that which promotes human life and ‘evil’ as that which promotes human death.

 

I think that there are degrees of heroic action. Some heroes are greater than others depending upon the circumstances of their action. To be a hero often requires courage and often causes personal hardship.

 

On a scale of one to ten I would classify the following people as heroes in most people’s judgment:

Mother Theresa (10)

Police and firemen entering the burning buildings in 9/11 attack (8 to 10)

My mom and dad (7)

Men and women fighting in Iraq: our side (5 to 10) their side (?)

Youngster really trying to make good grades in school (7)

 

The psychologist Alfred Adler said: “The supreme law [of life] is this: the sense of worth of the self shall not be allowed to be diminished.”

 

Heroic actions are our means for maintaining our self esteem. Without heroic action we cannot maintain our own self-esteem. Self-esteem is self-respect. We judge our self as to the degree of worthiness for respect. We rely partially upon the judgment of others but that respect from others is filtered by our own judgments to how heroic our actions are.

 

It appears that we must feel self-esteem or we suffer mental illness of one degree or another. I gain self-esteem by reading lots of stuff, writing about that stuff, and posting that stuff on this forum, i.e. I am a self-actualizing self-learner (6).

 

What do you do for self-esteem?

[Michaelangelica]

It is hard to know where to start with my Mum and Dad

Briefly dad was "never right" after the war. He got sicker and sicker and more alcoholic and violent as I grew up. Eventually when I was 15 I flattened him and threw him out.

Mum and I went to live elsewhere.

 

Mum believed that a good education was the key to a good life and success. it is only now I realise how much she gave up so I could have a "good eduction."

 

It is also only now that I have begun to forgive my Dad and realise what he had been though. Among other things he was the only survivor of his platoon in the Jungles of Borneo and single handily buried his whole platoon where they lay in the jungle.

 

If to lay down you life for another is a definition of "hero'; my Mum and Dad were 'heroes"

[coberst]

One reason that I posted this was because I wanted to introduce a word that is so very important to the sciences of psychology and psychoanalysis.

 

All that I have read about these two sciences indicate that what are called heroic acts are those acts that reinforce our self-esteem and with out self-esteem we are pitiful creatures.

 

We have many words in the language that have both a common usage and also have a technical usage. The word ‘hero' is one such word. I have been studying psychology and psychoanalysis for the last many months and these domains of knowledge use the word 'hero' in a technical manner.

 

One of the difficulties we always have when we try to learn a domain of knowledge that is new to us is learning the vocabulary. The OP reflects how this word is used in these sciences.

 

My act is heroic if I think it is and it is also heroic if others think that it is. If my act is heroic then my self-esteem grows. We are not talking about absolutes here. In some cultures if I stone to death my sister for dishonoring my family then my act is heroic.

 

Lack of self-esteem is one of the major causes of mental illness. This lack of self-esteem can also lead to obesity when the individual tries to find solace in food when self-esteem is not up to par.

[Buffy]

All that I have read about these two sciences indicate that what are called heroic acts are those acts that reinforce our self-esteem and with out self-esteem we are pitiful creatures.

 

It's easier to get to the top when you're shooting for the top.

-- Theresa Russell

 

She that was ever fair and never proud, Had tongue at will, and yet was never loud, :phones:

Buffy

[nutronjon]

Originally Posted by coberst

It appears that we must feel self-esteem or we suffer mental illness of one degree or another. I gain self-esteem by reading lots of stuff, writing about that stuff, and posting that stuff on this forum, i.e. I am a self-actualizing self-learner (6).

 

What do you do for self-esteem?

 

I do the same thing for self esteem.

 

However, I want to speak of parents who raise their children in poverty, because to do one's best to be a good parent in conditions of poverty is, heroic. It is a much greater challenge than parenting with enough money to be comfortable, and yet the poverty does terrible damage to self esteem, for the parent and the child. I think before the middle class got so large, things were different. I think the mentality of abundance, has been harmful and increased injustice.

[Jet2]

My mom was a house wife who knew nothing but taking care of us.

 

My dad was a sailor in a local ferry company, a typical hard worker but just working too hard I think. His life was somehow ruined by us. Have to feed seven kids has never been an easy job.

 

God I miss them so much!

[coberst]

McMansions equals heroic action for American citizens.

 

 

"We're not selling shelter," says the president of Toll Brothers, a builder of upscale homes. "We're selling extreme-ego, look-at-me types of homes." In 2000, Toll Brothers' most popular home was 3,200 square feet; by 2005, it had grown 50 percent, to 4,800 square feet. These "McMansions" often feature marble floors, sweeping staircases, vaulted ceilings, family rooms, studies, home entertainment centers and more bedrooms than people.

'House Lust' Hits Home Article from Washington Post Jan 2, 2008

[nutronjon]

McMansions equals heroic action for American citizens.

 

 

"We're not selling shelter," says the president of Toll Brothers, a builder of upscale homes. "We're selling extreme-ego, look-at-me types of homes." In 2000, Toll Brothers' most popular home was 3,200 square feet; by 2005, it had grown 50 percent, to 4,800 square feet. These "McMansions" often feature marble floors, sweeping staircases, vaulted ceilings, family rooms, studies, home entertainment centers and more bedrooms than people.

'House Lust' Hits Home Article from Washington Post Jan 2, 2008

 

:doh: I don't know this action to maintain self esteem, is my sense of heroic? "Heroic actions are our means for maintaining our self esteem." I think we have something to chew on here. Not all actions taken for one's own self esteem are heroic. What is the honor in such self serving excess? Isn't heroic also something very honorable? Isn't it associated with the some kind of social good?

 

Your example is of owning a house, but many others own gas gusseling vechicles that are excessive, and add to the problems surrounding using gas. Oh, oh, the fun of wearing furs has been destroyed by animal activitist changing our conscousness. We can do things for self esteem that become unpopular, and then the action no longer is good for self esteem. I don't think something that is heroic, should be tied to something that can be judge morally wrong. Something that is heroic, must also be highly moral.

 

PS Jet2, thank you for honoring your parents. I felt good as I read your post.

[coberst]

nutronjon

 

Money is, of course, our principal means for showing our hero status. The more we make the biger the self-esteem until there comes a time when that will no longer cut the mustard. Even Tony Soprano and Mike Wallace, who is the the big man on "60 minutes" had their moments of depression wherein the standard highs of capitalistic success fail to satisfy.

[nutronjon]

nutronjon

 

Money is, of course, our principal means for showing our hero status. The more we make the biger the self-esteem until there comes a time when that will no longer cut the mustard. Even Tony Soprano and Mike Wallace, who is the the big man on "60 minutes" had their moments of depression wherein the standard highs of capitalistic success fail to satisfy.

 

I guess I am outside of that loop. I don't equate having money with being heroic nor honorable. In fact I hold the impression that many became wealthy in less than honorable ways.

[freeztar]

I'm also having trouble making the connection between self-esteem, or money, and heroism. Coberst mentioned two definitions for heroic: one technical and one common. He has given the common definition which we are all familiar with, but he has failed to specifically define the "technical" definition. Care to define it Coberst so we can understand what you are talking about?

 

It seems silly to me (especially when speaking of science) to use terms that already have a specific meaning and give them other, and in this case, seemingly opposing, definitions. Doing this tends to create confusion, as it has in this thread.

[coberst]

I'm also having trouble making the connection between self-esteem, or money, and heroism. Coberst mentioned two definitions for heroic: one technical and one common. He has given the common definition which we are all familiar with, but he has failed to specifically define the "technical" definition. Care to define it Coberst so we can understand what you are talking about?

 

It seems silly to me (especially when speaking of science) to use terms that already have a specific meaning and give them other, and in this case, seemingly opposing, definitions. Doing this tends to create confusion, as it has in this thread.

 

 

One reason that I posted this was because I wanted to introduce a word that is so very important to the sciences of psychology and psychoanalysis.

 

All that I have read about these two sciences indicate that what are called heroic acts are those acts that reinforce our self-esteem and with out self-esteem we are pitiful creatures.

 

We have many words in the language that have both a common usage and also have a technical usage. The word ‘hero' is one such word. I have been studying psychology and psychoanalysis for the last many months and these domains of knowledge use the word 'hero' in a technical manner.

 

One of the difficulties we always have when we try to learn a domain of knowledge that is new to us is learning the vocabulary. The OP reflects how this word is used in these sciences.

 

My act is heroic if I think it is and it is also heroic if others think that it is. If my act is heroic then my self-esteem grows. We are not talking about absolutes here. In some cultures if I stone to death my sister for dishonoring my family then my act is heroic.

 

Lack of self-esteem is one of the major causes of mental illness. This lack of self-esteem can also lead to obesity when the individual tries to find solace in food when self-esteem is not up to par.

 

 

Heroic—determined effort [directed at promoting good or deterring evil] in the face of difficulty.

 

Hero is a technical word used in psychology to label an action that helps a person to increase their self-esteem. If we try to use our own definition of this word when we try to learn the science of psychology we will never be able to learn the science. It is important to recognize that technical words must not be confused with ordinary meaning when we are speaking of the domain of knowledge in which the word belongs. This can only lead to confusion and not to learning.

[freeztar]

I'm not sure why you re-posted your second post in your latest response...anyways...

 

Hero is a technical word used in psychology to label an action that helps a person to increase their self-esteem.

 

Can you point to one use of the word "hero" in this manner as it applies to psychology (a link, not the book you're quoting from)? I've studied psychology quite a bit and have never come across this definition of hero. Carl Jung's hero archetype does not have this definition, for example.

 

If we try to use our own definition of this word when we try to learn the science of psychology we will never be able to learn the science.

 

I agree, so why not just use ego?

In modern-day society, ego has many meanings. It could mean one’s self-esteem; an inflated sense of self-worth; or in philosophical terms, one’s self.

 

For example, here's a quote from your post with ego substituted in:

All that I have read about these two sciences indicate that what are called ego acts are those acts that reinforce our self-esteem and with out self-esteem we are pitiful creatures.

 

It makes a lot more sense to me. :)

 

It is important to recognize that technical words must not be confused with ordinary meaning when we are speaking of the domain of knowledge in which the word belongs.

 

Agreed.

[coberst]

free...

 

I reposted beause my experience leads me to conclude that very few readers on these Internet forums ever read more than just bits and pieces from a thread. Your question led me to believe that such was the case here.

 

“The Denial of Death” Winner of the Pulitzer Prize by Ernest Becker Chapter 11 “Psychology and Religion: What is the heroic individual”. “Modern man is drinking and drugging himself out of awareness, or he spends his time shopping, which is the same thing. As awareness calls for types of heroic dedication that his culture no longer provides for him, society contrives to help him forget. Or, alternatively, he buries himself in psychology in the belief that awareness all by itself will be some kind of magical cure for his problems. But psychology was born with the breakdown of shared social heroisms; it can only be gone beyond with the creation of new heroisms that are basically matters of belief and will, dedication to a vision.”

[freeztar]

free...

 

I reposted beause my experience leads me to conclude that very few readers on these Internet forums ever read more than just bits and pieces from a thread. Your question led me to believe that such was the case here.

That's funny, I get the same impression sometimes. :eek:

[nutronjon]

One reason that I posted this was because I wanted to introduce a word that is so very important to the sciences of psychology and psychoanalysis.

 

All that I have read about these two sciences indicate that what are called heroic acts are those acts that reinforce our self-esteem and with out self-esteem we are pitiful creatures.

 

We have many words in the language that have both a common usage and also have a technical usage. The word ‘hero' is one such word. I have been studying psychology and psychoanalysis for the last many months and these domains of knowledge use the word 'hero' in a technical manner.

 

One of the difficulties we always have when we try to learn a domain of knowledge that is new to us is learning the vocabulary. The OP reflects how this word is used in these sciences.

 

My act is heroic if I think it is and it is also heroic if others think that it is. If my act is heroic then my self-esteem grows. We are not talking about absolutes here. In some cultures if I stone to death my sister for dishonoring my family then my act is heroic.

 

Lack of self-esteem is one of the major causes of mental illness. This lack of self-esteem can also lead to obesity when the individual tries to find solace in food when self-esteem is not up to par.

 

 

Heroic—determined effort [directed at promoting good or deterring evil] in the face of difficulty.

 

Hero is a technical word used in psychology to label an action that helps a person to increase their self-esteem. If we try to use our own definition of this word when we try to learn the science of psychology we will never be able to learn the science. It is important to recognize that technical words must not be confused with ordinary meaning when we are speaking of the domain of knowledge in which the word belongs. This can only lead to confusion and not to learning.

 

:eek: Shooting the president is heroic if you think it is? I think that idea would need a reality check. :doh: It might be deluded. Would we say deluded people are heroic?

 

I can see the heroic element of being a suicide bomber, and if I were a Palestinian I might be one of them. But many people do not see being a suicide bomber as being heroic. What would happen if we all agreed suicide bombers are heroic people? Or shooting the president makes a person a hero?

:cup: We can have a lot of fun with this- Robin Hood and Jesse James and Boonie and Clide are all heros. Alexander the Great and the rest of men who lead their people into unnecessary wars are also Great people, and Bush is a Great person and hero. Reality check, is this a value system we want to encourage? The truth is, all of these people have enjoyed popular support and we do enjoy hearing about them. What is it about us that gives us a vicarious pleasure in the exploits of these people? Is it our inner child who loves to get away with doing no no's? How mature is the behavior of these people?

 

If Mom and Dad are thieves or drug dealers, would they be heros? Is the term hero subject or objective?

[coberst]

nutron

 

Heroism like beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.