Zero-Tolerance Policies

[RiverRat]

Fishteacher … how would this actual scenario that played out 19 years ago when I was in high school be reconciled in today’s ZT environment?

 

A student in the middle of class actually left his seat and physically assaulted the teacher!! ;)

 

The teacher was the wrestling coach (and later went on to coach wrestling at A.S.U.) and immediately tried to subdue the student. In the process of subduing him, the students head inadvertently was driven into the ground and thus a large gash was opened on his forehead.

 

The student was suspended for I forget how long and no sanctions were set on the teacher.

 

Luckily the student parents did not care one way or the other about the situation and nothing more was said about it. I could only imagine what may happen in today’s environment

[pgrmdave]

The problem is that the policy gave me no real way to defend myself. I had a lot of sympathetic teachers - but they couldn't do anything without seeing it happen. The way my school was set up, I spent nearly all the day with the same students, just going to different teachers. Unfortunatly, there were many times when we would be unsupervised for a few minutes, which is the time they used to taunt me. I tried to explain that I was unable to defend myself verbally, the teachers were powerless to stop it, and I couldn't use my last resort because of fear of punishment.

[zadojla]

snip... and I couldn't use my last resort because of fear of punishment.

 

So Dave was helpless, because he was trying to be good, and appeal to authority didn't work. Sounds like he was a victim of abuse, in a way.

 

My fights in school involved response to physical bullying, e.g. knocking my books out of my hand, or playing "keep-away" with my hat. Like GAHD, I always provided fair warning. I want to make clear that I never won these fights, even once. I would take on anyone, of any size. And the bullying would stop after one or two, at most, confrontations.

 

Part of the problem was that I was very quiet and shy. By the time I was in high school, I had learned to defend myself verbally well enough to embarrass and humiliate anyone I chose. It that better?

[IrishEyes]

and I couldn't use my last resort because of fear of punishment.

So Dave was helpless, because he was trying to be good, and appeal to authority didn't work.

 

Ok, this goes back to the "take responsibility for your actions" discussion that I have daily with my children.

 

NO, Dave was not "helpless". And it wasn't that he "couldn't use (his) last resort", but that he wouldn't use violence as an option.

 

Dave had a choice, just as Gahd, Zad, and I did. We know how Gahd handled things. We know how Zad handles things. We know how I handled things. We even heard about how becca decked the bully and got a lunch date and some high-fives... Dave CHOSE not to resort to violence. HE made a choice, and it's something he might regret, but it's also his responsibility to accept the fact that his choice, and the resulting life it garnered him, were HIS doing.

 

In Dave's case, the ZT policy worked, as it kept him from resorting to violent actions to solve his issues. Does this mean that ZT is always "fair"? No, it doesn't. Does it mean that ZT is always effective? No, it deosn't. It just means that, at least some of the time, the policy does, in fact, deter children from committing violence in the school setting.

[Fishteacher73]

Fishteacher … how would this actual scenario that played out 19 years ago when I was in high school be reconciled in today’s ZT environment?

 

A student in the middle of class actually left his seat and physically assaulted the teacher!! ;)

 

When physical contact with between a student and teacher occurs it becomes a VERY sticky situation. While teachers are expected to watch over and try ro keep fights, etc. from happening, most are not properly trained in the safe way to subdue a violent individual (Something yet again that teachers need to add to the list of things now required).

 

In my district, a friend of mine (teacher) had a student a student take a swing at him. Being an ex-Marine, training kicked in and he quickly had the student in an arm bar and marched him to the office. He got suspended(THE TEACHER).

[IrishEyes]

In my district, a friend of mine (teacher) had a student a student take a swing at him. Being an ex-Marine, training kicked in and he quickly had the student in an arm bar and marched him to the office. He got suspended(THE TEACHER).

Did the administration tell the suspended teacher how the situation should have been handled? Or were there already standards in place that expressly prohibited physical contact with students, regardless of the circumstances? I'm just wondering how that school district didn't come under fire from someone on the teacher's behalf???

[Fishteacher73]

He just dropped it. He was thinking about going to law school, and decided that was a sign to go ahead and do it.

 

In my district I am not aware of any SOP for dealing with a situation such as this other than calling security. The situation I just brought up, probably came to a bit more scrutiny because the parents thought thier little thug son that tried to punch a teacher was not deserving of restraining force and threw a fit.

 

I have broken up a number of fights, some by just showing up, others have been by physically breaking up the fighters and containing them until security can arrive. There unfortunatly does not seem to be a specific policy on how to handle this, nor the training.

 

Either TEA or UEA would possibly step in if asked (two of the teacher's unions).

[pgrmdave]

Irish, I understand that I had a choice, and that the policy was a deterrant, but I think that the policy was instated to protect the weak, not the strong, to make school a place where people felt safer, not scared to defend themselves. The ZT policy did stop violence, but it made school a place that was uncomfortable, and distracted me from my learning (I nearly failed those two years).

[IrishEyes]

The ZT policy did stop violence, but it made school a place that was uncomfortable, and distracted me from my learning (I nearly failed those two years).

I am wondering what your parents had to say about the whole situation. I know that when our oldest son was in school, he rode the bus. On the bus, he was harrassed by two boys on an almost daily basis. I didn't find out about it for a short while. When I finally DID find out, we went straight to the home of the main aggressor and spoke with the boys mother. That night, the boy and his father came to our home and apologized. I also made a trip to the school to speak to the principal and to the bus driver. The bullying stopped. My son stood it for as long as he could, he asked them to leave him alone, he ignored it, he told the bus driver. I would say that he exhausted his options, for a kindergartner against two fifth graders. His "last resort" was to tell me. I don't think it was any thought of a ZT policy, but instead the things he's been taught at home (and maybe the fear of getting his butt kicked by a bigger kid).

 

Similar situation with one of my girls. The other girls parents were nearly as helpful, but the school was more than willing to watch the situation. My oldest child never had a problem with bully's at school, which is odd in that she is a very petite person, and it would be easy to physically intimidate her, but she is also very quick-witted and sharp-tongued, and isn't likely to let verbal taunts affect her.

 

I guess what I'm wondering is WHY school was uncomfortable and you were distracted, especially if your parents knew of the situation. Would a well-placed phone call have helped at all? Did the other parents not care, or were they not aware of the situation? Or would it have been worse to tell your folks than to spend two years miserable in school?

[pgrmdave]

My parents didn't know really, until nearly the end. They did know then, but they were in the same position as the school, helpless without any evidence other than my word. It had happened for so long that I couldn't recall any specific instances, depression does that - every day blends into every other day, making memory terrible. I think that even if they had known, they wouldn't have been able to do much, but you may be right.