Egg

[Queso]

So there's a chicken and she eats little things off the ground and then sits down and stuffs this life fluid in an orb and an eggshell forms around it then Plop.

 

This doesn't make sense to me at all.

How does this little hen make the egg?

It's like it's being beamed.

Any insight inside the bird?

[Buffy]

What part doesn't makes sense, Orb?

 

An egg is just another cell: nucleus, protoplasm, outer wall. I mean, I do think they're amazing, but to me they also seem to make sense because they're just like all the other constituents and supporting processes of life! :P

 

Omelette in the making, :P

Buffy

[Queso]

What is the shell made out of? How does it form?

That's what's weird to me.

[CraigD]

What is the shell made out of?

A chicken’s egg is about 95% by mass calcium carbonate ([ce]CaCO3[/ce]). The remaining 5% or so is made of … chicken – that is, protein, the big, complicated, mostly carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen (“CHON”) stuff that all plant and animal cells are made of.

 

This little bit of protein “matrix” is very important – without it, an eggshell would be 100% [ce]CaCO3[/ce], and have about the same strength and consistency as a Tums antacid tablet.

How does it form?

A hen has special glands in her oviduct dedicated to secreting this [ce]CaCO3[/ce]-rich protein fluid, coating the chick embryo-containing “sack” grown earlier in her gestational process.

 

An egg come out of the hen rather soft and flexible, until it’s air-dried a while. Were they aware of the alternative of the shell hardening while still inside, I’m sure hens everywhere would be grateful for this characteristic. :)

 

If hens don’t get enough calcium, or are dehydrated, their egg shells can be thin and brittle. The chicken eggs most of us are familiar with nowadays are much thinner shelled than the ones I knew as a child – large-scale chicken egg companies have learned how to save money by reducing the nutrients they feed their hens to the minimum needed to produce an egg that can survive shipping. The average home-farm egg has a much thicker, harder shell.

That's what's weird to me.

You can get a feel for how it works with a bit of culinary experience:

 

Take some white sugar (the finer the better), mix with water, spread and let dry. You’ll get a crumbly wafer, not good for much of anything.

 

Now take sugar and water, and add some protein, in the form of egg whites. Mix thoroughly – whip it good – spread, and let dry. You’ll get meringue cookies – light, but sturdy enough to play Frisbee with. (A safety-conscious cook will tell you you’ve got to bake them, or risk all sorts of rotten-egg-white unpleasantness, but meringue works fine baked or not, as long as you eat it either soon, or not at all)

 

I’ve never tried it myself, but I bet you could mix well-ground up Tums with egg whites and make a coating pretty similar to chicken egg shell.

[Queso]

wow. thanks . .

[freeztar]

I’ve never tried it myself, but I bet you could mix well-ground up Tums with egg whites and make a coating pretty similar to chicken egg shell.

 

Well dosh garnet Craig, you know I have to try it now.

Next time I go to the store I'll get some eggs (organic of course). I've already got the tums, but I might try to secure some pure calcium carbonate to avoid the very small amount of additives in tums (food coloring, adhesive, etc.).

 

I'd also be interested in other protein sources for this eggshell-making experiment.

 

Something that has not been addressed yet is the shape of an egg. As Craig mentioned, the egg is soft when fresh out of the chicken. The shape is formed (I believe) as the egg passes through the sphincter muscles of the chicken. This is biologically profound in many ways. The shape of the egg protects the embryo from pressure forces, be it from the hen sitting atop, a slight drop out of the nest, or a predator (though not so much so for the latter). It's an incredibly strong shape.

 

Indestructible Egg - Science Tricks - Surfing Scientist - The Lab

 

It would be interesting to see an impact test that addressed the differences between oval (egg shape) and sphere.

 

What could make an even more interesting experiment would be to try creating the fake-egg shell in the shape of an actual egg. The wafer should be as thin as possible in the end, to mimic eggshell. The thinner the better in the beginning, I can always go thicker later. If it can be done, it would be easy to test the comparative strengths.

 

I suppose one way of accomplishing this is to create a mold of an egg, and use this mold to create a mold of an egg (make sense?). These molds could be used in conjunction, with the fake-shell material sandwiched in between. It is left to dry, or very slightly warmed to speed up the process. Of course, the material would have to be cut in half to extract the egg mold, which would most likely completely compromise the integrity unless there is a way to seal it back together without seam weakness.

 

[Queso]

let us know how that goes.

 

the thought of all those animals being tortured so these lazy *** american idiots can drive to the store and scarf it down really really makes me sick. literally. like...nauseous.

[freeztar]

the thought of all those animals being tortured so these lazy *** american idiots can drive to the store and scarf it down really really makes me sick. literally. like...nauseous.

 

While the topic of this thread is "egg", I will not go into animal cruelty except to say that free-range is cage-free (mostly). Even better is to have your own chicks, and harvest their eggs.

[Queso]

What does free range constitute?

[CraigD]

What could make an even more interesting experiment would be to try creating the fake-egg shell in the shape of an actual egg. The wafer should be as thin as possible in the end, to mimic eggshell. The thinner the better in the beginning, I can always go thicker later. If it can be done, it would be easy to test the comparative strengths.

 

I suppose one way of accomplishing this is to create a mold of an egg, and use this mold to create a mold of an egg (make sense?).

The shape of a chick egg is, I think, due primarily to the shape of the amniotic (not exactly the correct term, but roughly analogous) sack that it forms around.

 

An accurate way to create an artificial egg, then, would be to paint the fake egg shell mixture onto something similar to a natural egg sack, such as a small water-inflated balloon. For even more accuracy, coat the inside of an elastic tube, such as a condom, insert the balloon, let it sit and squish is around a bit, then squirt it out – basically construct an artificial hen oviduct, and “lay” the egg from it.

 

I’m eager to hear how the experiment turns out :evil:

[Turtle]

...An egg come out of the hen rather soft and flexible, until it’s air-dried a while. Were they aware of the alternative of the shell hardening while still inside, I’m sure hens everywhere would be grateful for this characteristic. :evil:...

 

...Something that has not been addressed yet is the shape of an egg. As Craig mentioned, the egg is soft when fresh out of the chicken. ...

 

You two Gentlemen share the same (apparently common) misinformation on the condition of a chicken's egg on laying. To whit, they are already hard-shelled when laid. >>

25. Is the shell hard or soft when laid?

 

The egg is hard when laid by the hen.

 

Here's that bit and a lot eggstra. :evil: >> Incubation and Embryology - Incubation and Embryology - University of Illinois Extension

[freeztar]

You two Gentlemen share the same (apparently common) misinformation on the condition of a chicken's egg on laying. To whit, they are already hard-shelled when laid. >>

 

I don't think so Turtle.

Most bird eggs have an oval shape, with one end rounded and the other more pointy. This shape results from the egg being forced through the oviduct. Muscles contract the oviduct behind the egg, pushing it forward. The egg's wall is still shapeable, and the pointy end develops at the back side.

Egg (biology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Is a chicken's egg soft and elongated soon after being laid,...

 

Perhaps "soft" is the wrong word. How about malleable? :xparty:

[CraigD]

You two Gentlemen share the same (apparently common) misinformation on the condition of a chicken's egg on laying. To whit, they are already hard-shelled when laid. >>

 

Here's that bit and a lot eggstra. :xparty: >> Incubation and Embryology - Incubation and Embryology - University of Illinois Extension

I don't think so Turtle.

 

Egg (biology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Is a chicken's egg soft and elongated soon after being laid,...

 

Perhaps "soft" is the wrong word. How about malleable?

I’m disposed to believe the University of Illinois page over the answerbag.com one, which is IMHO about as authoritative as my post here at hypography.

 

I’ve lived a total of perhaps 2 weeks in households with hens, most recently in 2002, but must confess I believed their eggs were flexible when laid because everyone told me so, not from direct testing – I never handled an egg when it was dark and wet, only after it had dried to its usual white color. My impression was that even then, I could slightly (~ .001 m) compress them, but my perception may have been due to suggestion – I didn’t use calipers or any other objectively sound technique, just thumb and fingers.

 

Does anybody have a hen?

[InfiniteNow]

The issue is you are all searching for an absolute answer to a dynamic question. There are many factors which influence the malleability or rigidity of a freshly laid egg (one of the main ones is what type of animal is laying it). However, you have referenced hens specifically, so basically diet, gestation time, and age all seem to be the predominant factors. Also, it's important to remember that each egg has nearly 10,000 microscopic pores, so our classic definitions of hard and soft don't really allow us to resolve the issue very successfully.

 

Cheers. :xparty:

 

 

 

The outer coating of the shell itself consists of a mucous coating called the cuticle or bloom which is deposited on the shell just prior to lay.This protein like covering helps protect the interior contents of the egg from bacteria penetration through the shell.

<...>

The thickness of an egg shell is determined by the amount of time it spends in the shell gland (uterus) and the rate of calcium deposition during egg shell formation. If the egg spends a short period of time in the shell gland, then shell thickness will be less. Also, the time of day when the egg is laid will also determine the thickness of the shell. In general, the earlier in the day or light portion of the photoperiod the thicker the shell will be. The amount or rate of calcium deposition will also affect the thickness of the shell. Some strains of birds may be able to deposit calcium for the egg shell at a faster rate than others. Another factor such as the age of the hen plays a role in determining the functional quality of the egg shell. As the hen ages, the thickness of the shell usually declines. Other egg shell quality factors such as the formation of abnormal ridges, calcium deposits, or body checks (ridges) are important considerations in determining egg shell quality.

<...>

Although it may not be practiced, the use of a "ahemeral" lighting program has shown to be effective in causing eggs to spend a longer time in the uterus, thus, producing eggs with thicker shells. Nutritionally speaking, it is important for the producer to feed a ration properly formulated with the correct amount of calcium and phosphorus in the diet (usually 3.5-3.75% calcium, .45% phosphorus). The production of eggs with thick, strong shells usually occurs from young vs. older flocks. Thus, a producer should expect more shell breakage and eggs produced with thinner shells to occur with older flocks and those producing eggs a couple of months after they’ve been molted. It is also important for the producer to monitor the health of the flock. Since diseases such as Infectious Bronchitis and Newcastle cause egg shell abnormalities in the texture of the shell and shape of the shell, producers should continually monitor their flock for these diseases and follow management practices to avoid their flock from contacting these diseases.

 

What is Egg Shell Quality and How to Preserve It

[Turtle]

I’m disposed to believe the University of Illinois page over the answerbag.com one, which is IMHO about as authoritative as my post here at hypography.

...

Does anybody have a hen?

 

Hear hear. Let uncommon common sense prevail. I have in mind to call some egg farmers tomorrow.

 

On the thickness of the shell business, it is only tangentially connected as thickness of a material does not equate to its hardness. The thicknes may affect how much force is necessary to break a material, but not how the material breaks.

 

Moreover, "hardness" may not be the best term as what we are really getting at is how an egg cracks and a measure of "brittleness" is better applied. >> Brittleness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I assert that an egg fresh out of a hen's cloaca is already brittle and will crack on the skilllet edge every bit the same as an older egg. :cup: :eek_big:

[Buffy]

Completely orthogonal idea from this month's Popular Science mag which has a wild set of articles on "high-tech cooking!":

 

Ever drop a tiny piece of eggshell in your eggs and tried to fish it out? Next time use *another piece of eggshell* to dig it out! Apparently it cuts right through the gooey plasma-stuff, instead of what your finger or spoon or anything else which just pushes it away....

 

Apparently those eggshell edges are *really sharp* when you get down to that cellular level....

 

What if Humpty Dumpty had been newly laid, :eek_big:

Buffy

[freeztar]

I assert that an egg fresh out of a hen's cloaca is already brittle and will crack on the skilllet edge every bit the same as an older egg. :evil: :phones:

 

Although this wiki on oviducts is absent of much info, the picture says a thousand words. The egg shape is apparent in the uterus, which suggests that the form is already hardened. Otherwise, we would expect to see the egg in a shape formed by the natural volume and shape of the oviduct.

 

So thanks Turtle, for correcting me. :evil:

Perhaps, if we can find a good source, the wiki for "Egg (Biology)" can be changed. No sense in perpetuating a false myth...