The Carolina Bays

[Hill]

People had lived in North Carolina, and other places, and never though much about the many small shallow lakes and ponds in the vicinity except to figure out ways to drain them and plant crops there. That changed in 1930 when the first aerial photographs of the area were taken.

The lakes were then discovered to be of about the same shape and orientation, and people began to speculate about their origin. One strong contender for awhile has been the bays are formed by winds, and or water currents. The other strong contender is that they were formed by a large meteor or comet that exploded high in the atmosphere and spewed chunks of itself over much of North America.

Recent evidence strongly supports the fragmented comet theory. Rather than duplicate everything I've gathered at the Google Earth Community Forums, I'll provide a link: Google Earth Community: The mystery of the Carolina Bays

The initial post has some links itself. The Carolina Bays has a video of a conference about event which is rather long but may be of perticular interest because it contains current information (May, 2007).

[Mercedes Benzene]

WOW!

I've seen those before from airplanes! I had absolutely no idea that they had any significance. I simply assumed that they were some sort of local farming habit... not too much unlike center pivot irrigation.

It's interesting to know that they are indeed the result of something else. Based on what I've quickly read about them, I seem to lean towards the meteor theory. The simple fact that they extend out of the Carolinas makes it seem more feasible than some water/tide anomaly.

 

Thank you so much for sharing this!

[freeztar]

My first objection to the extraterrestrial origin of Bays was brought up by the second to last post in the GEC thread. Why do we not see oval craters on the moon and Mars?

 

Of course, the "black mat" is a strong piece of evidence to dismiss. :shrug:

 

I'm on the fence here...so far...

 

I do know that The Carolina Bays here in GA support plant communities found nowhere else in the state.

 

More to come...

[Mercedes Benzene]

My first objection to the extraterrestrial origin of Bays was brought up by the second to last post in the GEC thread. Why do we not see oval craters on the moon and Mars?

 

The moon doesn't have an atmosphere... so meteors don't break up into fragments which then fly at an angle towards the earth. Mars? Idk. :shrug:

[freeztar]

The moon doesn't have an atmosphere... so meteors don't break up into fragments which then fly at an angle towards the earth. Mars? Idk. :shrug:

 

The atmosphere indeed can cause comets and rocks to fragment, but does not account for oval craters.

 

Check out the original posting at the GEC:

" One objection to the idea of an impact origin for the lunar craters was the fact that all lunar craters are round. Astronomers assumed that most meteorites would have struck the moon at oblique angles, producing elongated craters. Barringer, however, had experimented by firing rifle bullets into rocks and mud, and had discovered that a projectile arriving at an oblique angle would nevertheless make a round hole. In 1923, Barringer's 12-year-old son Richard published an article in Popular Astronomy, using his father's rifle experiments to argue for the impact origin of the lunar craters; Barringer himself repeated the arguments a short time later in the Scientific American."

 

THE BARRINGER METEORITE CRATER

[Hill]

One objection to the idea of an impact origin for the lunar craters was the fact that all lunar craters are round

 

One hypothesis about the formation of the Carolina Bays proposes that they formed such large ovals in some areas, not just because of a strike by pieces of a disintegrating comet fragments. The resulting lakes were so large because the glowing hot material, coming in at a steep angle, struck a boggy area and the steam created literally exploded large holes out of the soft wet substrate. Strikes on drier ground had much less effect. A RE-EVALUATION OF THE EXTRATERRESTRIAL ORIGIN OF THE CAROLINA BAYS

 

Craters aren't necessarily round, especially those formed from low angle impacts.

 

From Straight Dope Staff Report: Why are craters always round?

[Tormod]

There are numerous examples of oval craters on the Moon and Mars.

 

Here is a nice render based on spacecraft images:

Terragen renderings of Mars

[freeztar]

Good links guys!

I had never heard of oval craters on the moon or Mars.

So what does this say for Barringer's theory that shockwaves create round craters even at oblique angles? Why did he achieve these results with bullets here on earth?

 

Also, would the oblique angle account for such a large area of distribution?

 

Another theory that a colleague and I were discussing yesterday was glacial winds. In much the same way that loehrs are created, a receding glacier could have created gale force winds that carved out uni-directional divets in the topography.

 

Still on the fence...

[Hill]

In much the same way that loehrs are created, a receding glacier could have created gale force winds that carved out uni-directional divets in the topography.

Possible I suppose, but the heaviest concentration of bays is far from the location of glacial fronts. The winds would likely be created from cold heavy air from above the glacier rushing downslope and, I would suspect, creating strong winds right near the glacial face.

 

Also, we have to apply the new evidence of carbon layers at these sites which contain lumps of glasslike carbon , carbon spherules , and magnetic grains rich in iridium. This strengthens the evidence for impact rather that wind. Do you agree?

 

 

More about this layer from ScienceDaily: Extraterrestrial Impact Likely Source Of Sudden Ice Age Extinctions

[freeztar]

Also, we have to apply the new evidence of carbon layers at these sites which contain lumps of glasslike carbon , carbon spherules , and magnetic grains rich in iridium. This strengthens the evidence for impact rather that wind. Do you agree?

 

Yes, I agree that the evidence of iridium and carbon spherules make a convincing argument, if not a hands down declaration of proof.

 

Where exactly were these "black mats" found? Are they found at all of the Bays, or only some in a certain area?

 

Something that I have not seen mentioned yet is multiple forces creting these Bays. Perhaps the original impact craters were later scoured by wind and other errosive forces? B)

[Turtle]

One hypothesis about the formation of the Carolina Bays proposes that they formed such large ovals in some areas, not just because of a strike by pieces of a disintegrating comet fragments. The resulting lakes were so large because the glowing hot material, coming in at a steep angle, struck a boggy area and the steam created literally exploded large holes out of the soft wet substrate. Strikes on drier ground had much less effect. A RE-EVALUATION OF THE EXTRATERRESTRIAL ORIGIN OF THE CAROLINA BAYS

 

Craters aren't necessarily round, especially those formed from low angle impacts.

 

From Straight Dope Staff Report: Why are craters always round?

 

 

Good stuff Hill. I had not ever heard of the formations until you posted. Quoting from the first link:

Meteoritic impact is no longer widely regarded as a plausible hypothesis. No meteoritic fragments have been found that are genetically related to the Carolina Bays. No known meteorite falls elsewhere in the world have resulted in approximately half a million depressions over a wide area. Studies of magnetic anomalies associated with individual bays are not conclusive (MacCarthy, 1936; Prouty, 1952). Shatter cones and high pressure changes in quartz grains associated with known impact craters are absent. The heavy mineralogy of sediments within one bay did not differ from sediments beyond the bay rim (Preston and Brown, 1964). The selective confinement of Carolina Bays to one physiographic province has also been cited as evidence against any extraterrestrial hypothesis.

 

By this report, the conclusion seems to point to a comet as the culprit, which is a very different beast indeed than a meteoroid/asteroid. Fascinating. B) B)

[Hill]

From Freeztar

Where exactly were these "black mats" found? Are they found at all of the Bays, or only some in a certain area?

 

According to the video of the press conference and the Science News article in the original post on this thread, the mat is found at many locations, including the Carolina Bays. But there are no photos posted specifically of evidence from the bays.

[freeztar]

According to the video of the press conference and the Science News article in the original post on this thread, the mat is found at many locations, including the Carolina Bays. But there are no photos posted specifically of evidence from the bays.

 

Thanks Hill, I forgot about the video, I need to go back and watch that. B)

B)

[TheBigDog]

Excellent stuff, Hill! Welcome to Hypography. B)

 

Bill

[Turtle]

From Freeztar

 

 

According to the video of the press conference and the Science News article in the original post on this thread, the mat is found at many locations, including the Carolina Bays. But there are no photos posted specifically of evidence from the bays.

 

Sweet video! I am at part 6. Already I recognized Luann Becker at the table from the the science program she did with Mark Barlough concerning an impact 250 million years ago (the Great Dying). We have another thread on the topic of impact killing the mammoths, but that died on the vine. Now that I quick-review it, the first post is missing? >> http://hypography.com/forums/environmental-studies/11800-mammoth-comet-extinction.html?highlight=mammoth+extinction

 

No matter. We can't get much more current than May, and this 12,900 year ago event is gaining attention as the evidence for a space-rock event grows.

[bigfatpothead]

After examining the Carolina bay craters I am convinced that their origin is the same as the origin of the craters all over Texas, Arkansas, and Oklahoma.

here is my places I saved from google earth

http://www.bigfatpothead.com/craters.kmz

 

I looked at the elongated craters and I followed the direction they are all pointing to. It is exactly where I say a large impact site happened in Alabama.

 

 

I was browsing google earth and found that a very large object hit the US and scraped along the surface before

 

Exploding in alabama and showering the midwest with huge rocks that left craters all over texas and arkansas.

 

Most of these craters have taken the form of small ponds.

 

 

The impact point is a hundred miles or so south east of huntsville Al.

 

And there is a huge impact crater that goes through 3 states.

 

The thing was so huge that it carved out the Appalachian mountains.

 

You can zoom in on them and see the serated edges of the object

 

Where it rolled and scraped the land.

 

Ronnie Smith

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good links guys!

I had never heard of oval craters on the moon or Mars.

So what does this say for Barringer's theory that shockwaves create round craters even at oblique angles? Why did he achieve these results with bullets here on earth?

 

Also, would the oblique angle account for such a large area of distribution?

 

Another theory that a colleague and I were discussing yesterday was glacial winds. In much the same way that loehrs are created, a receding glacier could have created gale force winds that carved out uni-directional divets in the topography.

 

Still on the fence...

[Moontanman]

Carolina bays! I live there dude! I have swam, scuba dived and fished these lakes for many years. My favorite Bay is lake Waccamaw, it is huge and one of the few that contains clear alkaline water. It was formed in a bed of limestone called marl. Most of the rest were formed in sandstone and peat. Great places lots of unusual plants animals and fish. Alligators galore!