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Sodium Auride?


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#1 YYYY

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 10:13 PM

Is it possible for Sodium and Gold to bond chemically?

#2 ronthepon

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 02:03 AM

I doubt it. Although it is *possible* that *theoretical* bonds form, I don't think that and true bonds will form, the observable kind.

#3 mir

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 07:14 AM

Both metals is easily oxidized. So there are no netgain of energy. Unless you might find a reaction system where the thermodynamics favours these kinds of bond formation. Maybe somewhere in an exotic and hostile environment like deep under Jupiters atmosphere?

#4 moo

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 09:04 AM

Both metals is easily oxidized.

What? I thought gold oxidation was hardly perceptable... :)

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#5 Mercedes Benzene

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 04:13 PM

Is it possible for Sodium and Gold to bond chemically?


Yes. It is very possible indeed.
I would imagine that this compound could be created through a reduction of a solution containing gold and sodium ions. I've seen the compound in numerous books, but I have no clue how stable it is. Early indications seem to suggest that it is a semi-stable solid.

Perhaps I'll go experiment, and see what I can come up with.:)

#6 Jay-qu

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 10:05 PM

May I ask why you would want to do this?

#7 Boerseun

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 01:44 AM

To the best of my limited chemistry knowledge, gold is a noble metal and don't chemically bond with anything. At best, it'll make an alloy with another metal, but that's not a chemical bond. It's only interactions in chemical reactions might be as a catalist, but it shouldn't participate in any reactions outside of acting as a catalist.

#8 ronthepon

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 03:53 AM

Yes. It is very possible indeed.
I would imagine that this compound could be created through a reduction of a solution containing gold and sodium ions. I've seen the compound in numerous books, but I have no clue how stable it is. Early indications seem to suggest that it is a semi-stable solid.

Perhaps I'll go experiment, and see what I can come up with.:cup:

Yeah, of course it is. Gold has a d orbital having d9, and will be able accept an electron theoretically. Sodium can furnish this electron.

#9 mir

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 05:28 AM

What? I thought gold oxidation was hardly perceptable... :cup:

moo


Im sorry :)

But what I meant was that Gold is easier oxidized from metal-state (0-state) than reduced.

#10 moo

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 08:27 AM

Im sorry :cup:

But what I meant was that Gold is easier oxidized from metal-state (0-state) than reduced.

That's quite all right, this conversation is a bit above my head anyway. :)

moo

#11 Mercedes Benzene

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 10:04 AM

Yeah, of course it is. Gold has a d orbital having d9, and will be able accept an electron theoretically. Sodium can furnish this electron.


Yup. 0.o

#12 ronthepon

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 10:25 AM

Damn, how'd I miss this?

To the best of my limited chemistry knowledge, gold is a noble metal and don't chemically bond with anything. At best, it'll make an alloy with another metal, but that's not a chemical bond. It's only interactions in chemical reactions might be as a catalist, but it shouldn't participate in any reactions outside of acting as a catalist.


The extraction/purification of gold involves it's bonding properties. A coordinate complex with gold as the central ion is formed, and later the gold is precipitated from this complex.

And -hey- waitaminnit!

Gold mining

Cyanide extraction of gold may be used in areas where fine-gold bearing rocks are found. Sodium cyanide solution is mixed with finely-ground rock that is proven to contain gold and/or silver, and is then separated from the ground rock as gold cyanide and/or silver cyanide solution. Zinc is added to the solution, precipitating out residual zinc, as well as the desirable silver and gold metals. The zinc is removed with sulphuric acid, leaving a silver and/or gold sludge that is generally smelted into a doré that is shipped to a metals refinery for final processing into 99.9999% pure metals.

Sodium cyanide to gold...

should form gold complex with cyanide ions, and sodium as the counter ion!

I'll have to read up to find more, though.

BTW, gold does have a +3 oxidation state also.
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#13 ronthepon

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 10:30 AM

yeah, got it.

The coordination entity is: [math]\small [Au(CN)2]^-[/math] and ...er... that's a +1 oxidation state there...

#14 YYYY

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 06:46 PM

Yes. It is very possible indeed.
I would imagine that this compound could be created through a reduction of a solution containing gold and sodium ions. I've seen the compound in numerous books, but I have no clue how stable it is. Early indications seem to suggest that it is a semi-stable solid.

Perhaps I'll go experiment, and see what I can come up with.0.o


Is it perhaps possible that it is undetectable by our current methods?
Perhaps it is detectable but just never looked for.
Perhaps it is abundant in the oceans!

#15 Jay-qu

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 11:47 PM

I doubt it. When detecting compounds you see everything thats there, you would realise if there was something missing.

#16 ronthepon

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 03:59 AM

hello... are we asleep? [math]Na[Au(CN)_2][/math] Sodium and gold.

Compound.

Easily detectable.

#17 Mercedes Benzene

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 06:08 AM

Yeah, but they're arguing gold as an anion. In that complex, gold is definitely a cation.