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Why The Us Riots Are Doomed To Fail


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#18 Thoth101

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 04:41 AM

The 70 year old I understand did not have to pay thee bill, never the less he was presented with a bill over a million, 4 weeks in intensive care and rehab. What will your bill be, when you get Covid-19? 

 

What did the police want to arrest the guy for ? 

What is a legitimate reason for the Police to kill someone in America?

If some one doesnt want to be arrested in America is it a legitimate reason to shoot them, in your opinion? 

 

Police in Norway killed 1 person in the last 10 years, its an everyday event in America and places like Africa. 

 

Off the top of my head Deadly Force can be used if the police officer is in pursuit and the assailant does not obey the police orders to stop. Also if the police officer is under attack or threatened with bodily harm. A big problem is the gang culture in the US. I think if all the illegal drugs were legalized and end the drug war that would end the gangs because they wouldn't have anything to make money off of. But yes much violence in America.



#19 VictorMedvil

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 05:10 AM

Off the top of my head Deadly Force can be used if the police officer is in pursuit and the assailant does not obey the police orders to stop. Also if the police officer is under attack or threatened with bodily harm. A big problem is the gang culture in the US. I think if all the illegal drugs were legalized and end the drug war that would end the gangs because they wouldn't have anything to make money off of. But yes much violence in America.

That is correct if you try to assault a officer with any weapon even if its a nail clipper, he can shoot you.


Edited by VictorMedvil, 15 June 2020 - 05:11 AM.

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#20 Thoth101

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 09:23 PM

That is correct if you try to assault a officer with any weapon even if its a nail clipper, he can shoot you.

Thanks. That is for sure. We have to remember they have families to go home to also. There are things that need to change though that is for sure.



#21 montgomery

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Posted 17 June 2020 - 11:30 AM

That is correct if you try to assault a officer with any weapon even if its a nail clipper, he can shoot you.

That appears to have been the case right up until the protests started. Do you consider that it remain that way or that the police be restrained from the use of deadly force unless if is warranted?

 

There are many instances of situations where it's questionable if deadly force is warranted but we could start with an instance in which person is running away from the police and is shot in the back.

 

In Canada we have the RCMP as a police force in most small cities while larger cities have their own city police. Canada seems to be able to maintain a higher standard of police conduct with the Mounties, as opposed to city police forces. Perhaps America could solve it's problem by turning to one federal police force that can maintain a high standard that is common to the entire country. Thousands of small police forces in America seems to be a recipe for failure. Your comments?



#22 montgomery

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Posted 17 June 2020 - 11:33 AM

Thanks. That is for sure. We have to remember they have families to go home to also. There are things that need to change though that is for sure.

Is it your opinion that a police officer be allowed to shoot a person if that person tries to assault him/her with a nailclipper?



#23 Flummoxed

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 03:00 AM

That is correct if you try to assault a officer with any weapon even if its a nail clipper, he can shoot you.

 

It seems then if you are likely to have a disagreement with the police in America, and dont feel like backing down, it is best to shoot first, and answer questions later. All the Police have to do if they dont like you, is to claim you were running away, or waved your hand in their direction, after they have shot you. It is a recipe for disaster. It is amazing with all the guns in America, the protesters havent opened fire on the Police to protect them selves already.

 

It seems things havent moved on much since the wild west, and the likes of Wyatt Earp, who died less than a hundred years ago https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Wyatt_Earp


Edited by Flummoxed, 18 June 2020 - 03:01 AM.


#24 montgomery

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 11:16 AM

It seems then if you are likely to have a disagreement with the police in America, and dont feel like backing down, it is best to shoot first, and answer questions later. All the Police have to do if they dont like you, is to claim you were running away, or waved your hand in their direction, after they have shot you. It is a recipe for disaster. It is amazing with all the guns in America, the protesters havent opened fire on the Police to protect them selves already.

 

It seems things havent moved on much since the wild west, and the likes of Wyatt Earp, who died less than a hundred years ago https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Wyatt_Earp

I think that racism in America is a huge factor in America and it's driving their politics more than anything else. This could result in the police being emboldened to be even more violent.

Arrests of police officers and murder charges are of little significance when the justice system is rigged so there will be no convictions.

If Trump is defeated at the ballot boxes and actually accepts defeat then their country could find it's way back to normal again. If not then there are many signs of a fascist takeover of their democracy. 

I think that everything political being attempted by the Trump regime is dependent on racism being upheld. And I also wonder if Biden has any real feelings on opposing racism? 

There was an anti-establishment move on in America in the 2016 election but Trump hijacked it by lying and pretending to be anti-establsihment. While their Dem party hijacked Bernie Sanders chances by promoting Hillary, even though she was a horrible candidate. Now their Dem party had hijacked Bernie's chances again by turninig to a very weak establishment candidate with Biden.

America's problems show no sign of improving in the foreseeable future, regardless of it being either Trump or Biden.

 

I think that Trump is the best prospect for those of us who are opposed to another US led war. Do you?

 

On a side note, the Bolton book that's hot in the news is all about Bolton being so disappointed in Trump's unwillingness to be aggressive toward both Russia and China, that it came to the point at which Bolton the hawk was too much out of step with Trump's priorities.



#25 Flummoxed

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Posted 19 June 2020 - 02:49 AM

I think that racism in America is a huge factor in America and it's driving their politics more than anything else. This could result in the police being emboldened to be even more violent.

Arrests of police officers and murder charges are of little significance when the justice system is rigged so there will be no convictions.

If Trump is defeated at the ballot boxes and actually accepts defeat then their country could find it's way back to normal again. If not then there are many signs of a fascist takeover of their democracy. 

I think that everything political being attempted by the Trump regime is dependent on racism being upheld. And I also wonder if Biden has any real feelings on opposing racism? 

There was an anti-establishment move on in America in the 2016 election but Trump hijacked it by lying and pretending to be anti-establsihment. While their Dem party hijacked Bernie Sanders chances by promoting Hillary, even though she was a horrible candidate. Now their Dem party had hijacked Bernie's chances again by turninig to a very weak establishment candidate with Biden.

America's problems show no sign of improving in the foreseeable future, regardless of it being either Trump or Biden.

 

I think that Trump is the best prospect for those of us who are opposed to another US led war. Do you?

 

On a side note, the Bolton book that's hot in the news is all about Bolton being so disappointed in Trump's unwillingness to be aggressive toward both Russia and China, that it came to the point at which Bolton the hawk was too much out of step with Trump's priorities.

 

From an outsiders view point, I would have to disagree with you, Trump is more likely to cause wars, if he thinks he can make money. He clearly does not get along with many European leaders, and sees Europe as a threat. War is good for the arms business, and trade wars might move jobs and businesses back to the dis-USA.

 

His overt friendliness with President Putin, might support the claims that Russia helped him get elected. It is militarily in Russia's interests not to have a united Europe and a dis-USA. His unwillingness to be aggressive towards China, might also be due to China having a huge market place, that might be good to trade with, and China does not mess around in other countries internal affairs. It would not be good to change that position by pissing them off. 

 

Bolton seems to support a common opinion of Trump, which many people globally hold. https://www.youtube....h?v=17LiZN9Mer0



#26 montgomery

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Posted 19 June 2020 - 10:12 AM

From an outsiders view point, I would have to disagree with you, Trump is more likely to cause wars, if he thinks he can make money. He clearly does not get along with many European leaders, and sees Europe as a threat. War is good for the arms business, and trade wars might move jobs and businesses back to the dis-USA.

 

His overt friendliness with President Putin, might support the claims that Russia helped him get elected. It is militarily in Russia's interests not to have a united Europe and a dis-USA. His unwillingness to be aggressive towards China, might also be due to China having a huge market place, that might be good to trade with, and China does not mess around in other countries internal affairs. It would not be good to change that position by pissing them off. 

 

Bolton seems to support a common opinion of Trump, which many people globally hold. https://www.youtube....h?v=17LiZN9Mer0

I'm a Canadian, and so my reply is also from an outsider's POV.

I think that Trump is so mentally ill now that there will be precautions in place to prevent him from causing more harm to his country and so a decision to go to war would most likely be out of his hands. 

America is mostly neutered IMO, due to Russia's interests and China's interests in countries that the US is hoping to make allies. But most of those countries have already chosen to ally with either Russia or China because of their peaceful means. And so the risk of another US/Nato led war is much less than it was when Iraq  was invaded and destroyed. My question for you is,  what country is still a possibility for a US war?

 

Trump's friendly relations with both China and Russia are positive for ongoing peaceful relations. However, there's little doubt that the US has now decided on a Cold War attitude toward both. Could it be that the Cold war would have been escalated even more without Trump's friendliness with both Xi and Putin?

 

The Democrats have become America's war party because of Trump's behaviour, but that could change when the Trump regime ends. Bolton is an extremist hawk who thought that he could advance his agenda by being a part of the Trump regime. He was jilted when Trump cooperated with Russia, even though it was for Trump's own political purposes. I believe that was the reason for Bolton's falling out with Trump. Now Bolton sees better hope of furthering his pro-war agenda by aligning with the Democrats.

 

The Dems and their media have spewed hate for Putin and Russia continuously and that's been because of Trump's collusion with Putin/Russia. I think that makes them a greater risk of pushing Russia toward Cold  War relations and hence closer to war.

 

Having said that, I'm still quite convinced that the US is handcuffed because of M.A.D. And so, if you care to continue this discussion, I again ask, 'which country: can still be a US victim? Venezuela? Iran? Or is it too late for either because of Russia's/China's interests?



#27 VictorMedvil

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Posted 19 June 2020 - 12:28 PM

I'm a Canadian, and so my reply is also from an outsider's POV.

I think that Trump is so mentally ill now that there will be precautions in place to prevent him from causing more harm to his country and so a decision to go to war would most likely be out of his hands. 

America is mostly neutered IMO, due to Russia's interests and China's interests in countries that the US is hoping to make allies. But most of those countries have already chosen to ally with either Russia or China because of their peaceful means. And so the risk of another US/Nato led war is much less than it was when Iraq  was invaded and destroyed. My question for you is,  what country is still a possibility for a US war?

 

Trump's friendly relations with both China and Russia are positive for ongoing peaceful relations. However, there's little doubt that the US has now decided on a Cold War attitude toward both. Could it be that the Cold war would have been escalated even more without Trump's friendliness with both Xi and Putin?

 

The Democrats have become America's war party because of Trump's behaviour, but that could change when the Trump regime ends. Bolton is an extremist hawk who thought that he could advance his agenda by being a part of the Trump regime. He was jilted when Trump cooperated with Russia, even though it was for Trump's own political purposes. I believe that was the reason for Bolton's falling out with Trump. Now Bolton sees better hope of furthering his pro-war agenda by aligning with the Democrats.

 

The Dems and their media have spewed hate for Putin and Russia continuously and that's been because of Trump's collusion with Putin/Russia. I think that makes them a greater risk of pushing Russia toward Cold  War relations and hence closer to war.

 

Having said that, I'm still quite convinced that the US is handcuffed because of M.A.D. And so, if you care to continue this discussion, I again ask, 'which country: can still be a US victim? Venezuela? Iran? Or is it too late for either because of Russia's/China's interests?

I want to make this clear having better relations with the Russians is good for the U.S. because Europe keeps flirting with China, we needed a backup plan in case the Europeans betray us. I would choose the Russians over the Europeans anyways, the Russian bear is more powerful than all of Europe Combined. Most of the European countries have a pathetic military and keep trying to help China thus why wouldn't the U.S. begin to try and get the Russians into a warmer relationship. Just Remember the Europeans are our China and basically as you try to open up more trade with China it will make the U.S. more distant, thus you drive the U.S. directly to Russia. The U.S. isn't so blind to let the Europeans ally themselves with China without opening up our deals with the Russians. However as you can see relations with the Russians aren't too warm(https://www.adn.com/...on-near-alaska/ and https://www.yahoo.co...-140112348.html), but it doesn't matter the U.S. Military can take both Russia and China on at the sametime even with Europe's treason with China(https://www.politico...mat-says-309257).


Edited by VictorMedvil, 19 June 2020 - 04:18 PM.

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#28 montgomery

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Posted 19 June 2020 - 03:32 PM

Quote: "I want to make this clearing having better relations with the Russians is good for the U.S. ...................." 

 

True and it always has been, but the US regards Russia as the enemy and most likely will continue to do so.

 

Quote:" ......................... but it doesn't matter the U.S. Military can take both Russia and China on at the sametime................"

 

The US will indeed need to take on both Russia and China if it decies to go to war with either and ignore the M.A.D. threat. It's very unlikely that either of the three would start a war with another because there would be no winner.

 

My question was to Flumoxxed, what country could the US start a war with now, considering that Russia and/or China have interests in all the contested countries. Do you have an  opinion on that?


Edited by montgomery, 19 June 2020 - 03:36 PM.


#29 VictorMedvil

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Posted 19 June 2020 - 04:27 PM

Quote: "I want to make this clearing having better relations with the Russians is good for the U.S. ...................." 

 

True and it always has been, but the US regards Russia as the enemy and most likely will continue to do so.

 

Quote:" ......................... but it doesn't matter the U.S. Military can take both Russia and China on at the sametime................"

 

The US will indeed need to take on both Russia and China if it decies to go to war with either and ignore the M.A.D. threat. It's very unlikely that either of the three would start a war with another because there would be no winner.

 

My question was to Flumoxxed, what country could the US start a war with now, considering that Russia and/or China have interests in all the contested countries. Do you have an  opinion on that?

And if the U.S. wanted to pursue war with China and Russia we would just execute them, unlike Canada or Europe, The U.S. has bunches of weapons of mass destruction enough to wipe out the entire Earth, but that won't happen because we are forced into a cold war with Russia, not so much China, this is because the Russians also have enough weapons of mass destruction to exterminate this species. they could do it all on their own Russia and The United States. The U.S. government can do anything it wants without any permission in this world, unlike the governments of weak nations. don't you understand? 

 

U.S. Conflicts with Russia

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Korean_War

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Vietnam_War


Edited by VictorMedvil, 19 June 2020 - 05:07 PM.

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#30 montgomery

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Posted 19 June 2020 - 09:18 PM

And if the U.S. wanted to pursue war with China and Russia we would just execute them, unlike Canada or Europe, The U.S. has bunches of weapons of mass destruction enough to wipe out the entire Earth, but that won't happen because we are forced into a cold war with Russia, not so much China, this is because the Russians also have enough weapons of mass destruction to exterminate this species. they could do it all on their own Russia and The United States. The U.S. government can do anything it wants without any permission in this world, unlike the governments of weak nations. don't you understand? 

 

U.S. Conflicts with Russia

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Korean_War

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Vietnam_War

The US can do anything it wants in this world if it wants to ignore M.A.D. Likewise with Russia and China.

I don't understand what your anger is all about, but at least is has nothing to do with this conversation as far as I can tell. 

 

What country could the US safely attack now that Russia and China have interests in the contested countries?

 

China is rushing into Cuba with free and fair trade that makes the US of little consequence to Cuba's future and they are already ahead of the world's banana republics in wealth and social benefits for their people.. China sees their presence in Cuba as being just as legitimate (and invited) as the US in South Korea and will likely install nuclear warheads in Cuba in the near future. First with nuclear armed missiles on China's ships and then later ground based, and justifiable by US missile bases in South Korea. Do you think that will become possible or do you think the "The US government can do anything it wants without permission in this world,.............."?


Edited by montgomery, 19 June 2020 - 09:22 PM.


#31 VictorMedvil

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Posted 19 June 2020 - 09:46 PM

The US can do anything it wants in this world if it wants to ignore M.A.D. Likewise with Russia and China.

I don't understand what your anger is all about, but at least is has nothing to do with this conversation as far as I can tell. 

 

What country could the US safely attack now that Russia and China have interests in the contested countries?

 

China is rushing into Cuba with free and fair trade that makes the US of little consequence to Cuba's future and they are already ahead of the world's banana republics in wealth and social benefits for their people.. China sees their presence in Cuba as being just as legitimate (and invited) as the US in South Korea and will likely install nuclear warheads in Cuba in the near future. First with nuclear armed missiles on China's ships and then later ground based, and justifiable by US missile bases in South Korea. Do you think that will become possible or do you think the "The US government can do anything it wants without permission in this world,.............."?

You are just coming up with fantasy scenarios now, the last time that a country tried to put nuclear weapons in Cuba it almost caused a nuclear war, If the nuclear weapons would have been placed on Cuba during the last time the U.S. would have nuked Russia(https://en.wikipedia..._Missile_Crisis). The Chinese know better as literally the U.S. came really close to nuking russia during the Cuban Missile Crisis if they hadn't turned around with the missiles(https://en.wikipedia..._nuclear_launch).


Edited by VictorMedvil, 19 June 2020 - 09:50 PM.


#32 OceanBreeze

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 03:44 AM

 

 

What country could the US safely attack now that Russia and China have interests in the contested countries?

 

 

 

 

Hmmmm........I don't know.

 

Hey! How about Canada?  We could use some more snowmobile country.


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#33 montgomery

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 09:31 AM

You are just coming up with fantasy scenarios now, the last time that a country tried to put nuclear weapons in Cuba it almost caused a nuclear war, If the nuclear weapons would have been placed on Cuba during the last time the U.S. would have nuked Russia(https://en.wikipedia..._Missile_Crisis). The Chinese know better as literally the U.S. came really close to nuking russia during the Cuban Missile Crisis if they hadn't turned around with the missiles(https://en.wikipedia..._nuclear_launch).

Quote Wikipedia link: "Secretly, the United States agreed that it would dismantle all US-built Jupiter MRBMs, which had been deployed in Turkey against the Soviet Union;............."

 

Quote Victor: "..............If the nuclear weapons would have been placed on Cuba during the last time the U.S. would have nuked"

 

Maybe but that is a question on the M.A.D. deterrent against a US led war. Both sides backed off and prevented a 'possible' WW3.


Edited by montgomery, 20 June 2020 - 09:40 AM.


#34 Flummoxed

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 11:10 AM

I'm a Canadian, and so my reply is also from an outsider's POV.

I think that Trump is so mentally ill now that there will be precautions in place to prevent him from causing more harm to his country and so a decision to go to war would most likely be out of his hands. 

America is mostly neutered IMO, due to Russia's interests and China's interests in countries that the US is hoping to make allies. But most of those countries have already chosen to ally with either Russia or China because of their peaceful means. And so the risk of another US/Nato led war is much less than it was when Iraq  was invaded and destroyed. My question for you is,  what country is still a possibility for a US war?

 

Trump's friendly relations with both China and Russia are positive for ongoing peaceful relations. However, there's little doubt that the US has now decided on a Cold War attitude toward both. Could it be that the Cold war would have been escalated even more without Trump's friendliness with both Xi and Putin?

 

The Democrats have become America's war party because of Trump's behaviour, but that could change when the Trump regime ends. Bolton is an extremist hawk who thought that he could advance his agenda by being a part of the Trump regime. He was jilted when Trump cooperated with Russia, even though it was for Trump's own political purposes. I believe that was the reason for Bolton's falling out with Trump. Now Bolton sees better hope of furthering his pro-war agenda by aligning with the Democrats.

 

The Dems and their media have spewed hate for Putin and Russia continuously and that's been because of Trump's collusion with Putin/Russia. I think that makes them a greater risk of pushing Russia toward Cold  War relations and hence closer to war.

 

Having said that, I'm still quite convinced that the US is handcuffed because of M.A.D. And so, if you care to continue this discussion, I again ask, 'which country: can still be a US victim? Venezuela? Iran? Or is it too late for either because of Russia's/China's interests?

 

Trump likes money, he has declared that Europe is a threat. A trade war is more up his street than a military war. 

 

I think it may be in Americas, and Russias interests to cause the break up of or instability in Europe, Brexit was supported by Trump, and his twin brother Coco the Clown. Putin was probably laughing his socks off when the ENGLISH voted for brexit . Europe has been taking communist influenced countries away from Russia. It is a natural response for Russia to respond, for America to join in, against allies can only be because America can not compete against Europe. To impose a trade deal with a small country like the UK would be easy, to impose a trade deal with all of Europe would not be so easy.     

 

Russia and especially America have economies based on military. America has ideas of policing the world, and spreading its ****ed up influence to other countries, along with Russia. China however has only indicated a wish to trade outside its borders, without trying to influence other countries politics. 

 

I do not see China as a threat, except to fair trade. (they are known not to play fair :) ) Copyright to the Chinese, I suspect means they have the right to copy a product.