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Is It Possible For Spacetime To Have An Extra Spatial Dimension That Is Large?

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#1 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 04:40 PM

Would physics break?

It would allow separate frames of reference to scale ..we know it is doing this because the speed of light is the same in time dilation volumes. Gravitational waves fluctuate the scale of reality as they pass. It could make cosmic voids expand and black holes contract.
 
 

Four LARGE spatial dimensions means anything that spreads out 'spherically' will follow an inverse cube law, not an inverse square law.

 
This is interesting because I think it explains how a black hole is started. A giant star collapses in on itself into the 4th dimension using the inverse cube law. You would need the force of a collapsing star to interact with the fourth dimension.

What does the information paradox say about matter being sent to a 4th dimension? If a black hole is partially 4D ..that would be hard evidence that it is there. Do cosmic voids have something to do with 4D? It seems when a volume doesn't have mass ..the 4d spatial spacetime is collapsing in on itself to cause voids to expand?

Is gravity considered weak because mass from 3D objects that we can interact with and see is barely anything to a 4D spatial spacetime fabric? A black hole would be 4D mass and spacetime would do the opposite of cosmic voids.

Is Dark Matter, 4D mass?



#2 Mutex

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Posted 11 January 2020 - 11:05 PM

Physics never breaks, however your models or interpretations of the physical world can be flawed or incorrect, or the assumptions you make can be incorrect that can and does certainly lead to 'physics breaking down'. 

 

But it's not really the case, the physics are what it is, it's how you interpret it that is what breaks.

 

Extra spatial dimension? 

 

I ask what qualifies for the cosmological dimension club? what do we have now and what are the rules of entry? 

 

We have X,Y,Z as spatial dimensions, and we have t as the time or temporal dimension, so we have direction and duration, directions in space and a duration of time, the commonality is length and the speed of light (specifically the speed of light being constant.

 

What X,Y,Z,t is, is a date or an appointment it is the minimum set of values to identify a physical location, it's an address and a time. 

 

So what else could qualify as a cosmological dimension that would have to be something else that gives a reference to a location in such a way that the speed of light is constant? Does big or small fit that fit that qualification. 

 

Why is there only 3 spatial dimensions anyway? who now W,Z,Y,Z and t?

 

For me the reason is simply mathematical, you don't need any more variables (dimensions) to address a point in space and time mathematically. 

But in reality there is no distinction between X,Y,Z and in fact you have an infinite number of directions you can define for space it's the number of points on the surface of a sphere.

 

I have recently been thinking about space and time and dimensions in a different and more literal sense, that a cosmological dimension is the common usage of a dimension, that is it is a length, like the dimensions of your room or your computer monitor or your 50 foot cabin cruiser!

 

So when I consider a cosmological dimension as a length it makes more sense, because what is space? Space is a physical length, it's the length of space between two defined points, What is time? It's a length, the length of time, it's how long time is. 

 

Space is the gap or length between objects, time is the length between events. The speed of light is constant which means there is a constant ratio of the length of space and the length of time.

 

So for me XYZt is just the location of a element of a 4D array of values, that justifies the number in that array element (spacetime location) as a function of that address. 

 

For me relativity is about the relative difference of that length value not the address of the difference, the array element value as opposed to its location, it's the relative length of space and time that justifies what we observe about relativity.

 

So does 'big or small' qualify, I don't think it does, they do not to me has a defined length property, or they do but with the spatial length we already know about. 

So how do you feel now you are living in a one dimensional universe with a single length dimension that is for space and time, that keeps the speed of light constant even in variable space and time length (time and space dilation)?



#3 Flummoxed

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 02:55 AM

Physics never breaks, however your models or interpretations of the physical world can be flawed or incorrect, or the assumptions you make can be incorrect that can and does certainly lead to 'physics breaking down'. 

 

But it's not really the case, the physics are what it is, it's how you interpret it that is what breaks.

 

Extra spatial dimension? 

 

I ask what qualifies for the cosmological dimension club? what do we have now and what are the rules of entry? 

 

We have X,Y,Z as spatial dimensions, and we have t as the time or temporal dimension, so we have direction and duration, directions in space and a duration of time, the commonality is length and the speed of light (specifically the speed of light being constant.

 

What X,Y,Z,t is, is a date or an appointment it is the minimum set of values to identify a physical location, it's an address and a time. 

 

So what else could qualify as a cosmological dimension that would have to be something else that gives a reference to a location in such a way that the speed of light is constant? Does big or small fit that fit that qualification. 

 

Why is there only 3 spatial dimensions anyway? who now W,Z,Y,Z and t?

 

For me the reason is simply mathematical, you don't need any more variables (dimensions) to address a point in space and time mathematically. 

But in reality there is no distinction between X,Y,Z and in fact you have an infinite number of directions you can define for space it's the number of points on the surface of a sphere.

 

I have recently been thinking about space and time and dimensions in a different and more literal sense, that a cosmological dimension is the common usage of a dimension, that is it is a length, like the dimensions of your room or your computer monitor or your 50 foot cabin cruiser!

 

So when I consider a cosmological dimension as a length it makes more sense, because what is space? Space is a physical length, it's the length of space between two defined points, What is time? It's a length, the length of time, it's how long time is. 

 

Space is the gap or length between objects, time is the length between events. The speed of light is constant which means there is a constant ratio of the length of space and the length of time.

 

So for me XYZt is just the location of a element of a 4D array of values, that justifies the number in that array element (spacetime location) as a function of that address. 

 

For me relativity is about the relative difference of that length value not the address of the difference, the array element value as opposed to its location, it's the relative length of space and time that justifies what we observe about relativity.

 

So does 'big or small' qualify, I don't think it does, they do not to me has a defined length property, or they do but with the spatial length we already know about. 

So how do you feel now you are living in a one dimensional universe with a single length dimension that is for space and time, that keeps the speed of light constant even in variable space and time length (time and space dilation)?

 

Its all relative, distances and time are not fixed. A photon travelling at light speed across a galaxy does not experience time or distance. From its view point it is emitted and absorbed instantly. From on outside observers point of view it may take light years to arrive. If space and time dont exist from a photons point of view, is that a different dimension. The effects of which we may perceive as a wave in space time dimensions. 


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#4 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 03:23 PM

If Dark Matter is in the 4th dimension ..how was it distributed? Were supermassive black holes involved?
 
Were galaxy volumes predetermined by 4D mass?
 
I think gravitational waves occur in the 4th dimension, so that means there are two ways for us to interact with it. The force of a collapsing star and events that produce gravitational waves. Gravitational waves warp spacetime in the same way time dilation happens.


#5 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 07:38 AM

The gravitational force of a point mass drops off as 1/r2 . As Sean stated above, this becomes 1/r{2+N} where N is the number of extra dimensions you are adding to a theory. In layman's terms this is because there are now more dimensions for the force to operate in, so the amount of force is more "spread out" for a given distance away.

 

 

The gravitational force originates from the extra dimension ..it was already "spread out" before the test.

 

Doesn't matter, we already know that since the inverse-square law holds for masses we can test here (down to ~1mm) then there can't be another large dimension similar to ours holding other matter influencing us.

 

 

No, it doesn't say that.

Inverse-square is for 3D masses. 4D mass is dark matter ..it isn't influencing us except bending spacetime.


Edited by pittsburghjoe, 13 January 2020 - 07:38 AM.


#6 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:21 AM

Don't you see what I've done here? I opened the door to an additional dimension.



#7 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:10 AM

We now know what dark matter and gravitational waves are. How the speed of light can be constant in different time dilation volumes. Why gravity is weak. Why cosmic voids expand. What happens in a black hole ..and eventually, how the big bang happened.



#8 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 03:20 PM

A black hole is a hole to the 4th dimension. I wonder what size the actual gateway point is. Is our 3D matter being turned virtual before passing over and turned to 4D Mass (dark matter)? Is all the mass in the 4th from black holes? Was it always that way?
 
I think the fabric of spacetime originates from this extra dimension.


#9 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 06:54 AM

Stop the presses ..The dimension we know as Time (temporal) is a duality with spatial. I am renaming it the dimension of SpaceTime. Whenever the dimension of spacetime gets involved, a physical state is granted.



#10 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:30 AM

The dimension we know as Time (temporal) is a duality with spatial. Whenever the dimension of spacetime gets involved, a physical state is granted.

 

Having spatial mixed in with time allows gravitational waves to propagate and for C to be constant in time dilation areas. It also allows for cosmic voids to expand by treating areas without mass differently. It satisfies the information paradox with black holes sending information to the 4th dimension. It also gives dark matter somewhere to live and be unobservable. It explains why we see gravity as weak ..the fabric of spacetime is 4D.

 

Only the force of a collapsing star and gravitational waves can interact with the 4th dimension. It doesn't change anything Minkowski discovered.

 

It answers how a particle gets observed and swapped from a wave to a particle.

The dimension of spacetime never wants quantum waves floating around in it. Or maybe I should say ..doesn't allow it if it knows it's there. It is a dimension of observation, I'm just saying it is what does the actual swapping (physical state).

 

There are three modes to a particle. Quantum wave, duality, finished (collapsed). If the wave is not observed during its path, it will only be a wave in flight until it hits something. Duality has the quantum field and the dimension of spacetime fighting over it. Finished ..wave or particle hits a object too big to be influenced by the quantum field.

 

Spacetime grants a physical state when it is involved in any way during the path of a particle ..no quantum weirdness allowed.

The swap/mode change is done before the particle/wave starts to move. The entire timeline of the particle/wave is known before it starts moving. The Delayed choice quantum eraser shows us this.



#11 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 10:27 AM

Spacetime originates in the fourth dimension ..that is the only part Einstein didn't see.

The dimension we know as Time(temporal) is a duality with spatial. I am renaming the dimension of Time, SpaceTime. The dimension of spacetime is space and time ..shocking I know. The fabric of spacetime is 4D and has a frame rate. Whenever the dimension of spacetime gets involved, a physical state is granted.        

       

Having spatial mixed in with time allows gravitational waves to propagate and for C to be constant in time dilation areas. It scales reality to keep the speed of light the same everywhere. It also allows for cosmic voids to expand by treating areas without mass differently. It satisfies the information paradox with black holes sending information to the 4th dimension (4D mass). It also gives dark matter somewhere to live and be unobservable. It explains why we see gravity as weak ..the fabric of spacetime is 4D while our objects are 3D mass.        

       

Only the force of a collapsing star and gravitational waves can interact with the 4th dimension. It doesn't change anything Minkowski discovered.        

       

It answers how a particle gets observed and swapped from a wave to a particle. The dimension of spacetime never wants quantum waves floating around in it. Or maybe I should say ..doesn't allow it if it knows it's there. It is a dimension of observation, I'm just saying it is what does the actual swapping (physical state).        

       

There are three modes to a particle. Quantum wave, duality, finished (collapsed). If the wave is not observed during its path, it will only be a wave in flight until it hits something. Duality has the quantum field and the dimension of spacetime fighting over it. Finished ..wave or particle hits a object too big to be influenced by the quantum field.        

       

Spacetime grants a physical state when it is involved in any way during the path of a particle ..no quantum weirdness allowed.        

       

The swap/mode change is done before the particle/wave starts to move. The entire timeline of the particle/wave is known before it starts moving. The Delayed choice quantum eraser shows us this.        

       

Spacetime is more than just a dimension because we see what it does when it gets involved with quantum waves. A dimension with observation built in is pretty weird.        

       

"The gravitational force of a point mass drops off as 1/r2 . As Sean stated above, this becomes 1/r{2+N} where N is the number of extra dimensions you are adding to a theory. In layman's terms this is because there are now more dimensions for the force to operate in, so the amount of force is more "spread out" for a given distance away." 

 

  - The gravitational force originates from the spacetime dimension ..it was already "spread out" before the test.        

       

Inverse square is for 3D mass. Inverse cubed is for 4D mass.        

       

There is significance to a dimension devoted to observation. ..making things physical ..real.        

       

The quantum field and quantum waves do not use spacetime. They don't have time, they do not age. Matter Waves do not decay ..no time. They are not physical, they can tunnel because of this. Whenever spacetime gets involved, quantum weirdness events stop. Spacetime auto-observes/decoheres anything larger than a virus.        

       

Unobserved QM = Quantum Field

Duality = QFT (both spacetime and the quantum field) (no quantum weirdness except for wobble ..and the quantum Zeno effect, the quantum field is still making it ageless. )

Spacetime = GR       

       

Double slit interpretation:

Randomly shot particles are sent through a double slit, if no one places a detector in the path of the particle, the unobserved particle will be in the form of two waves (one for each slit) . Depending on the which wave ends up with more energy (after the split) ..the final position of a channel representing a fringe will be the final resting place of the now collapsed particle. If the energy wasn't unbalanced, I would expect to see only a single channel of fringe be filled in.       

       

Now a detector gets placed anywhere along the path between the cannon and the final landing screen. The particle shot will be collapsed upon leaving the cannon because the state of the particle has already been decided. It won't be waves, just a particle. It's been pulled from the unobserved quantum realm and made physical in Spacetime. It will go through one slit and hit the final screen in a normal clump. It will wobble from the quantum field still having some influence on it.        

       

Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser: Shows us the entire path of the particle is known before it starts moving. Entangled particles hold the same state while in flight. When the first particle hits it's final panel in a shortened path, it knows if its entangled brother will ever be physical or not in flight. Aka, it knows if spacetime got involved.        

       

Which Way Quantum Eraser: Something very interesting happens when you cause two state changes in the path of a particle before it hits a final panel. If the quantum field knows two state changes are going to occur, it goes back to being unreal quantum waves. When you see fringes appear on the final panel, it is because the quantum waves ignored the polarizers at the slits and the additional polarizer as unreal quantum waves. Quantum waves are passing though physical spacetime objects.        

       

Inside every black hole is a sphere that represents the quantum/classical boundary. Beyond it, mass is sent to the fourth dimension as dark matter. Gravitational waves are literally the fluctuation of the fabric of spacetime in 4D. It temporarily scales reality as it propagates.        

       

The fabric of spacetime is a little more interesting than GR defines. We now know spacetime is enacted based the amount of mass at the quantum/classical boundary. It isn’t enacted everywhere but can be naturally with a certain amount of mass. A supermassive black hole at the center of a galaxy starts the core gravity well. It isn’t a strong enough well to hold the entire galaxy in but planets/stars daisy chain off the core gravity well. When an object has enough mass to enact spacetime, it becomes accessible to the universal spacetime net/fabric and will flow as gravity tells it to. Spacetime objects on the outer edges are going to experience extreme time dilation and move quickly. The amount of dark matter guessed to be in the universe is vastly overblown.        

       

Spacetime scales when it bends. Reality is scaling. We already know about time dilation ..but a meter stick in one time scale (region of space) will shrink or expand in another time region. It will still be a meter no matter how much it scales, because, for that region ..that is the reality of what a meter length is. This is why the speed of light does not change.



#12 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 02:21 PM

We know spacetime is everywhere but not enacted everywhere because it's possible for quantum waves to go unobserved.
The Dimension of Spacetime contains 3D and 4D. We know it has a frame rate because spacetime gives light/causality a speed limit. This is an enhancement to Einstein ..I'm not proving him wrong.



#13 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 07:05 AM

None of the 3 spatial dimensions can bend. Height cannot bend, Width cannot bend, Depth cannot bend. If you draw a perfect (idealized) triangle or a square, it’s impossible to join all the ends, due to curvature of space.

 

 

 
You are challenging me on whether the fabric of spacetime is spatial or not. I had assumed it was due to how weird a fourth spatial dimension would be, but now I question it. Spacetime is all the dimensions combined, but the fabric originates in the fourth. I guess there isn’t anything saying that fourth has to be spatial for the fabric to live there. The fabric could be made of something we haven’t thought of before. Maybe made of some weird quantum structure?
 
Dark Matter could still live there because it could exist as virtual mass.
 
Is the Dimension of SpaceTime, Temporal and Virtual?
 
 
Could the fabric of spacetime be something like unphysical matter waves? It is in the dimension of observation but maybe it doesn't have the ability to be observed ..just like dark matter.
 
It wouldn't be possible for dark matter to be the fabric of spacetime ..right?
 
Does 3D mass activate the fabric of spacetime (which is made of 4D virtual mass)? The bending of spacetime is causing what appears to us as dark matter? Does it take a certain amount of mass to activate? Is that why there is a quantum/classical boundary?

Edited by pittsburghjoe, 17 January 2020 - 12:55 PM.


#14 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 11:45 AM

Is there a connection between the quantum field and the spacetime fabric in the time dimension? Are unobserved matter waves, virtual mass in 4D without time? When it is given time it becomes physical in 3D and the 4D is used for time.



#15 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 01:35 PM

Matter waves do not age ..they do not decay. A physical state turns a wave physical before it starts moving.

4D virtual mass is unobservable. A physical state from spacetime is transforming the 4D to 3D + time. 



#16 pittsburghjoe

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 07:39 PM

Is there a connection between the quantum field and the spacetime fabric in the temporal dimension?
 
Are unobserved matter waves, virtual mass in 4D without time (don't age/decay)? When it is given time it becomes physical in 3D and the 4D is used for time?
 
A physical state turns a wave physical before it starts moving. It isn't a wave anymore at that point but can still be influenced by the quantum field.
 
4D virtual mass is unobservable. A physical state from spacetime is transforming the 4D to 3D + time.
 
Dark matter is unobservable, but doesn't have the ability to be given a physical state. It remains virtual.
 
Does observation/spacetime swap quantum waves by giving it a physical state and a timeline? The wave function can propagate, but the wave doesn't age until given a physical state.
 
It explains why we can never see quantum waves ..we can’t see anything 4D.

Edited by pittsburghjoe, 19 January 2020 - 08:26 PM.




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