Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

World Oil

oil Persian Gulf Iran Israel Saudi Arabia oil consumers

  • Please log in to reply
57 replies to this topic

#1 houseknight

houseknight

    Advanced Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 03:36 AM

1.It is believed that the term «Islamic fascism» offends all Muslims, including those who do not consider themselves jihadists. Is this statement correct or not, I have no intention to insult all Muslims. Therefore, I call things by their proper names, and at the same time I do not connect the name «Islam» with fascism.

Thus, the regime of the Iranian ayatollahs is based on the domination of the ideological apparatus of Shiite clerics, to which propaganda machines, security forces, the Guards of the Islamic Revolution and the army are subordinated, as well as the apparatus of administrative civil officials. Such a system is a typical totalitarian, fascist regime, from a sociopolitical point of view.

The Iranian regime has many features characteristic to USSR regime, namely the ideological apparatus (party) dominates over other branches of the bureaucracy. However, there is significant difference with the USSR regime, namely, private property and wealth are allowed in Iran, under the ideological and political dominance of officials. And this is general difference between Islamic social system and communist system.

From this last point of view, the Iranian regime is similar to the fascist (not Nazi) regime, and that is why I define this regime as «Islamic fascist» social system. The definition of «fascist» is not an abusive word, but an accurate, scientific characterization of such social system.

The basis of the ideology of the Iranian fascist regime is Shiite Islam, and therefore the natural purpose of this regime is the «World Caliphate», that is, the world domination of Muslims led by Iranian Shiites. Iranian priests, the media, the education system, the military, the Guards of the Islamic Revolution, and so on are blasting this every day.

2.And where is there Israel?

Given that the Shiites are a minority among Muslims, and they were an oppressed minority in the past, Shiites seek to improve their image among Sunnites. In order to prove their Islamic leadership, the Iranian ayatollahs are obliged to lead the Sunni majority as well. The only way to lead this majority, in spite the tradition, is to lead the march of all Muslims against Jews, to unite all Muslims under the common banner of «liberating Jerusalem» from the Jews.

In addition to «pure» ideology, the ayatollahs seek to establish their real world domination. It’s practical. The logic by which they substantiate the reality of such plans is the same as that of their Muslim Sunni rivals. First of all, this is a reliance on oil.

Whole humankind, its economy and way of life, depend on the continuous supply of oil from the Persian Gulf region, where most of the world’s reserves of easily recoverable oil are concentrated.

«Automotive way of life» is typical for all developed countries. Let try to offer Europeans and Americans to abandon the car. The politician who proposes such thing will immediately fail in the elections. And the circle of «motorized» countries and peoples is expanding.

In order to preserve their access to gasoline, Europeans are ready to sell their countries to Islamists, jihadists and, in general, to the devil. The Europeans have already agreed that Iran or someone else would give Jews a new Holocaust, so long as they, the Europeans, do not have to wet their own sleek hands in this blood.

In order to ease the suffering of conscience because of the renewed Holocaust, Europeans, and to some extent Americans, have been conducting, for five decades, a massive anti-Semitic brainwashing of their own population. The main pretext for such brainwashing is the misfortunes of the Palestinians, who  tried unsuccessfully to arrange a bloody bath for the Jews, and were badly affected by their failure.

However, all participants of this dirty game know well what is being occur. After all, in the case of Hezbollah and Iran, Palestinian balm does not affect the soul. Everyone understands that Iran is a fascist aggressor who seeks to arrange genocide for Jews.

Therefore, the Europeans say with or without any reason that they are «not anti-Semites.» This false slogan is designed to justify Germany’s intensive cooperation with the Iranian ayatollah-fascists in the finance, technology and economics. The termination of sanctions and the cooperation of Europe with Iran have strengthened dramatically Iran’s economic and military potential, and accordingly, the ability of the Iranian fascists to carry out their threats against Israel.

3.In the past decade, the Americans managed to gain energy independence thanks to new technologies for extracting hard-to-recover oil and gas reserves. Objectively, this fact creates a basis for Americans to behave independently of oil tycoons. And yet, the influence of international automobile and oil giants on the government, as well as possible corruption, led to «pro-oil» US policy in the Middle East. Note, that «pro-oil» doesn’t mean «pro-Israel», just opposite is correct. Contrary to election promises, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Obama kissed (literally), bowed and humiliated themselves to the masters of oil and money from the Middle East, and first of all to Saudi Arabia ruling clan.

Now, there are new signs that Trump is moving along the same beaten path. The cancellation of additional military assistance to Israel, the appointment of Herbert McMaster and his associates to the National Security Council… Mac Master believes “politically correctly”, that «radical terrorism has nothing to do with Islam», that Hezbollah (and possibly Hamas) are not terrorist organizations. I do not know if he have read the Qur’an. If he did not, he is incompetent in the issues he undertook to solve. If he did, he prepares dirty, maybe bloody, Middle East policies. I have no specific data to blame him for corruption, but something there smells bad…

Even if Hezbollah stopped using terror and drug trafficking as the main means of obtaining money, having switched to the role of a mercenary army, the fascist essence of this organization did not change. Those who underline the «social» role of Hezbollah, forget to point out that the income of this «social» organization consists of the subsidies of the Iranian fascists as payments for the war against the Jews. Simply, Hezbollah is a mercenary army of the Ayatollah fascists, and it pays part of this money to its functionaries, soldiers and their families. This way, Hezbollah is going along the trail of the Palestinian leadership, for whom the war against Jews is the main source of income. It has just been found out, that one half of all «social assistance» by Abu Mazen to the population of Palestine, goes for payments to terrorists and their families.

As a mercenary, Hezbollah does all the tasks that the payer, Iran, sets before him. Evidently, the leader of Hezbollah Nasrallah knows what the Iranians are planning, and often blurts out their plans (most likely, with the blessing of the boss). For example, in 2000, Nasrallah announced loudly that Israel had to live no more than 10 years. The massive supply of Iranian missiles, bunkers and underground fortresses built by the same Iranians, coupled with the Iranian nuclear program, instilled to him the confidence that the destruction of Israel is imminent. In 2006, he received a hot shower on his prudent head, and since then he hides in a bunker built by the Iranians.

Recently, in connection with the forthcoming victory of Iran in Syria, Nasrallah shared again Iran’s far-reaching plans. He  spoke again about the destruction of Israel, though, this time gave us a term until 2050. Obviously, Israel must prepare to meet a much stronger enemy than in 2006. After all, the Iranian forces will remain in Syria after the victory of Assad, with the blessing of the same McMaster. Moreover, both Iraq and Syria are under the control of Iran, so the Iranian army will be able to receive reinforcements and ammunition straightly from Iran.

4.In addition to controlling the export from the Persian Gulf,  Iran has established in last years control over the export through the Red Sea, thanks to the fact that its Khuti allies established control over Yemen. Iran’s control over Syria and Lebanon blocked the way of oil exports from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean.

Saudi Arabia and other Arab oil exporters are blocked by Iran. American bases in Arabia may prevent the direct seizure of Saudi oil deposits by Iran, but they are not able enough to open the way for oil delivery in case of a full-scale military conflict.

So, the wars and conflicts in the Middle East are by no means the internal affair of the countries located there, at least in terms of oil production and delivery. Thus, what can be done immediately in order to unblock these ways, on which the vital activity of mankind depends? First of all, to increase the US military presence on the ways of oil delivery. But international control ensuring the safety of oil production and delivery should become the responsibility of the entire international community, and especially of the main oil consumers, like Europe, Japan, China etc. The USA isn’t obliged to play the only World’s sheriff.

In addition, it is necessary to open alternative ways of transporting oil from the Persian Gulf region. For export to the Eastern Hemisphere, do exist two powerful oil pipelines from the center of Arabia directly to the Indian Ocean, bypassing the Hormuz and Bab el Mandeb Straits. And, of course, the oil port on the south-eastern shore of Arabian Peninsula. The oil consumers, for example, Japan, China, India will have to ensure the protection of this entire route of oil delivery, this way imposing international security.

Export of oil to the west, to Europe and beyond, needs to build an alternative pipeline from Saudi Arabia, through Sinai to Egypt, to the Mediterranean Sea. Europe may secure this direction, together with the USA. Another branch of this oil pipeline can be directed through Israel (Negev) to the Mediterranean. It is clear that the oil port in Israel will be the target of rocket shelling from Hezbollah and Hamas. Thus, an anti-missile defense of such an object will be needed.

If Mr. McMaster was wise enough, he would offer first of all the above logical steps. If he was able to draw conclusions from his experience in Afghanistan, he would understand that political correctness is the worst line of behavior towards Muslims. And that the best way to combat Islamic terror and jihad are economic sanctions. Without money, terror and Islamic fascism are dying.

Meanwhile, the ayatollah-fascists can dictate their terms, including, among other things, unleash a «march on Jerusalem» through Syria and Lebanon. They hope to involve the entire Islamic world in this campaign, and to lead this campaign under the slogan of the World Caliphate.

5.What  Israel can do to weaken the enemy, in addition to intensified preparations for the war against Iran, Syria and Hezbollah?

I believe that active action must be taken in the field of anti-fascist information war. In order to weaken the call of the ayatollah-fascists «to free Jerusalem,» active action must be taken in the matter of control over the holy places of Jerusalem. The essence of the proposal is that, instead of partitioning or internationalizing Jerusalem, we may exercise joint control over the holy places of Israel and Palestine. Representatives of denominations of Judaism, Islam and Christianity will participate in such monitoring. It will be possible to invite ayatollahs as well, as the representatives of Shiite believers. Instead of war, let them free Jerusalem through cooperation. If they refuse such an offer, they will assume full responsibility for the forthcoming victims of the war, which they initiate under pretext of «freeing Jerusalem». 

Also, we must recognize the independence of Palestine and maintain the occupation of the Palestinian territories, as required by the security of Israel, especially in view of the approaching war with the ayatollah-fascists seeking their «World Caliphate», namely, world domination.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Arabpipeline.jpg


#2 exchemist

exchemist

    Creating

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2832 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 06:01 AM

 

1.It is believed that the term «Islamic fascism» offends all Muslims, including those who do not consider themselves jihadists. Is this statement correct or not, I have no intention to insult all Muslims. Therefore, I call things by their proper names, and at the same time I do not connect the name «Islam» with fascism.

Thus, the regime of the Iranian ayatollahs is based on the domination of the ideological apparatus of Shiite clerics, to which propaganda machines, security forces, the Guards of the Islamic Revolution and the army are subordinated, as well as the apparatus of administrative civil officials. Such a system is a typical totalitarian, fascist regime, from a sociopolitical point of view.

The Iranian regime has many features characteristic to USSR regime, namely the ideological apparatus (party) dominates over other branches of the bureaucracy. However, there is significant difference with the USSR regime, namely, private property and wealth are allowed in Iran, under the ideological and political dominance of officials. And this is general difference between Islamic social system and communist system.

From this last point of view, the Iranian regime is similar to the fascist (not Nazi) regime, and that is why I define this regime as «Islamic fascist» social system. The definition of «fascist» is not an abusive word, but an accurate, scientific characterization of such social system.

The basis of the ideology of the Iranian fascist regime is Shiite Islam, and therefore the natural purpose of this regime is the «World Caliphate», that is, the world domination of Muslims led by Iranian Shiites. Iranian priests, the media, the education system, the military, the Guards of the Islamic Revolution, and so on are blasting this every day.

2.And where is there Israel?

Given that the Shiites are a minority among Muslims, and they were an oppressed minority in the past, Shiites seek to improve their image among Sunnites. In order to prove their Islamic leadership, the Iranian ayatollahs are obliged to lead the Sunni majority as well. The only way to lead this majority, in spite the tradition, is to lead the march of all Muslims against Jews, to unite all Muslims under the common banner of «liberating Jerusalem» from the Jews.

In addition to «pure» ideology, the ayatollahs seek to establish their real world domination. It’s practical. The logic by which they substantiate the reality of such plans is the same as that of their Muslim Sunni rivals. First of all, this is a reliance on oil.

Whole humankind, its economy and way of life, depend on the continuous supply of oil from the Persian Gulf region, where most of the world’s reserves of easily recoverable oil are concentrated.

«Automotive way of life» is typical for all developed countries. Let try to offer Europeans and Americans to abandon the car. The politician who proposes such thing will immediately fail in the elections. And the circle of «motorized» countries and peoples is expanding.

In order to preserve their access to gasoline, Europeans are ready to sell their countries to Islamists, jihadists and, in general, to the devil. The Europeans have already agreed that Iran or someone else would give Jews a new Holocaust, so long as they, the Europeans, do not have to wet their own sleek hands in this blood.

In order to ease the suffering of conscience because of the renewed Holocaust, Europeans, and to some extent Americans, have been conducting, for five decades, a massive anti-Semitic brainwashing of their own population. The main pretext for such brainwashing is the misfortunes of the Palestinians, who  tried unsuccessfully to arrange a bloody bath for the Jews, and were badly affected by their failure.

However, all participants of this dirty game know well what is being occur. After all, in the case of Hezbollah and Iran, Palestinian balm does not affect the soul. Everyone understands that Iran is a fascist aggressor who seeks to arrange genocide for Jews.

Therefore, the Europeans say with or without any reason that they are «not anti-Semites.» This false slogan is designed to justify Germany’s intensive cooperation with the Iranian ayatollah-fascists in the finance, technology and economics. The termination of sanctions and the cooperation of Europe with Iran have strengthened dramatically Iran’s economic and military potential, and accordingly, the ability of the Iranian fascists to carry out their threats against Israel.

3.In the past decade, the Americans managed to gain energy independence thanks to new technologies for extracting hard-to-recover oil and gas reserves. Objectively, this fact creates a basis for Americans to behave independently of oil tycoons. And yet, the influence of international automobile and oil giants on the government, as well as possible corruption, led to «pro-oil» US policy in the Middle East. Note, that «pro-oil» doesn’t mean «pro-Israel», just opposite is correct. Contrary to election promises, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Obama kissed (literally), bowed and humiliated themselves to the masters of oil and money from the Middle East, and first of all to Saudi Arabia ruling clan.

Now, there are new signs that Trump is moving along the same beaten path. The cancellation of additional military assistance to Israel, the appointment of Herbert McMaster and his associates to the National Security Council… Mac Master believes “politically correctly”, that «radical terrorism has nothing to do with Islam», that Hezbollah (and possibly Hamas) are not terrorist organizations. I do not know if he have read the Qur’an. If he did not, he is incompetent in the issues he undertook to solve. If he did, he prepares dirty, maybe bloody, Middle East policies. I have no specific data to blame him for corruption, but something there smells bad…

Even if Hezbollah stopped using terror and drug trafficking as the main means of obtaining money, having switched to the role of a mercenary army, the fascist essence of this organization did not change. Those who underline the «social» role of Hezbollah, forget to point out that the income of this «social» organization consists of the subsidies of the Iranian fascists as payments for the war against the Jews. Simply, Hezbollah is a mercenary army of the Ayatollah fascists, and it pays part of this money to its functionaries, soldiers and their families. This way, Hezbollah is going along the trail of the Palestinian leadership, for whom the war against Jews is the main source of income. It has just been found out, that one half of all «social assistance» by Abu Mazen to the population of Palestine, goes for payments to terrorists and their families.

As a mercenary, Hezbollah does all the tasks that the payer, Iran, sets before him. Evidently, the leader of Hezbollah Nasrallah knows what the Iranians are planning, and often blurts out their plans (most likely, with the blessing of the boss). For example, in 2000, Nasrallah announced loudly that Israel had to live no more than 10 years. The massive supply of Iranian missiles, bunkers and underground fortresses built by the same Iranians, coupled with the Iranian nuclear program, instilled to him the confidence that the destruction of Israel is imminent. In 2006, he received a hot shower on his prudent head, and since then he hides in a bunker built by the Iranians.

Recently, in connection with the forthcoming victory of Iran in Syria, Nasrallah shared again Iran’s far-reaching plans. He  spoke again about the destruction of Israel, though, this time gave us a term until 2050. Obviously, Israel must prepare to meet a much stronger enemy than in 2006. After all, the Iranian forces will remain in Syria after the victory of Assad, with the blessing of the same McMaster. Moreover, both Iraq and Syria are under the control of Iran, so the Iranian army will be able to receive reinforcements and ammunition straightly from Iran.

4.In addition to controlling the export from the Persian Gulf,  Iran has established in last years control over the export through the Red Sea, thanks to the fact that its Khuti allies established control over Yemen. Iran’s control over Syria and Lebanon blocked the way of oil exports from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean.

Saudi Arabia and other Arab oil exporters are blocked by Iran. American bases in Arabia may prevent the direct seizure of Saudi oil deposits by Iran, but they are not able enough to open the way for oil delivery in case of a full-scale military conflict.

So, the wars and conflicts in the Middle East are by no means the internal affair of the countries located there, at least in terms of oil production and delivery. Thus, what can be done immediately in order to unblock these ways, on which the vital activity of mankind depends? First of all, to increase the US military presence on the ways of oil delivery. But international control ensuring the safety of oil production and delivery should become the responsibility of the entire international community, and especially of the main oil consumers, like Europe, Japan, China etc. The USA isn’t obliged to play the only World’s sheriff.

In addition, it is necessary to open alternative ways of transporting oil from the Persian Gulf region. For export to the Eastern Hemisphere, do exist two powerful oil pipelines from the center of Arabia directly to the Indian Ocean, bypassing the Hormuz and Bab el Mandeb Straits. And, of course, the oil port on the south-eastern shore of Arabian Peninsula. The oil consumers, for example, Japan, China, India will have to ensure the protection of this entire route of oil delivery, this way imposing international security.

Export of oil to the west, to Europe and beyond, needs to build an alternative pipeline from Saudi Arabia, through Sinai to Egypt, to the Mediterranean Sea. Europe may secure this direction, together with the USA. Another branch of this oil pipeline can be directed through Israel (Negev) to the Mediterranean. It is clear that the oil port in Israel will be the target of rocket shelling from Hezbollah and Hamas. Thus, an anti-missile defense of such an object will be needed.

If Mr. McMaster was wise enough, he would offer first of all the above logical steps. If he was able to draw conclusions from his experience in Afghanistan, he would understand that political correctness is the worst line of behavior towards Muslims. And that the best way to combat Islamic terror and jihad are economic sanctions. Without money, terror and Islamic fascism are dying.

Meanwhile, the ayatollah-fascists can dictate their terms, including, among other things, unleash a «march on Jerusalem» through Syria and Lebanon. They hope to involve the entire Islamic world in this campaign, and to lead this campaign under the slogan of the World Caliphate.

5.What  Israel can do to weaken the enemy, in addition to intensified preparations for the war against Iran, Syria and Hezbollah?

I believe that active action must be taken in the field of anti-fascist information war. In order to weaken the call of the ayatollah-fascists «to free Jerusalem,» active action must be taken in the matter of control over the holy places of Jerusalem. The essence of the proposal is that, instead of partitioning or internationalizing Jerusalem, we may exercise joint control over the holy places of Israel and Palestine. Representatives of denominations of Judaism, Islam and Christianity will participate in such monitoring. It will be possible to invite ayatollahs as well, as the representatives of Shiite believers. Instead of war, let them free Jerusalem through cooperation. If they refuse such an offer, they will assume full responsibility for the forthcoming victims of the war, which they initiate under pretext of «freeing Jerusalem». 

Also, we must recognize the independence of Palestine and maintain the occupation of the Palestinian territories, as required by the security of Israel, especially in view of the approaching war with the ayatollah-fascists seeking their «World Caliphate», namely, world domination.

 

On what basis do you associate Iran with notions of a "world caliphate"?

 

I have never come across any suggestion that Iran has anything like this in mind, though I could be wrong, I suppose. What references can you direct me to that support this claim?   



#3 TomKalbfus

TomKalbfus

    Questioning

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 132 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 08:02 AM

To me it doesn't matter whether they are Sunni or Shiite if they hate America and attack Americans! Their differences with each other amount to very little with me. Am I suppose to believe that Sunnis are killing Americans in terrorist attacks because they hate Shiites, and am I supposed to believe that Shiites are killing Americans because they hate Sunnis? Before Al Qaeda, the number one hater of America was Iran, I was told they were Shiites, so I assumed that Shiite Islam was the "Bad Guy Religion" maybe the Sunnis were the "Good guys" but then the 9/11 attack occurred and it appears Sunnis hate Americans too. So what is the difference between them really? Al Qaeda and ISIS has the idea of a World Caliphate, but are the Iranians any different about this? They have never stopped chanting "Death to America!" Was giving the Shah of Iran some medical attentions really such a terrible thing to do to Iran? Poland can complain about worse things done to them by Germany and Russia!



#4 Buffy

Buffy

    Resident Slayer

  • Administrators
  • 8946 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:15 AM

To me it doesn't matter whether they are Sunni or Shiite if they hate America and attack Americans! Their differences with each other amount to very little with me. Am I suppose to believe that Sunnis are killing Americans in terrorist attacks because they hate Shiites, and am I supposed to believe that Shiites are killing Americans because they hate Sunnis? Before Al Qaeda, the number one hater of America was Iran, I was told they were Shiites, so I assumed that Shiite Islam was the "Bad Guy Religion" maybe the Sunnis were the "Good guys" but then the 9/11 attack occurred and it appears Sunnis hate Americans too. So what is the difference between them really? Al Qaeda and ISIS has the idea of a World Caliphate, but are the Iranians any different about this? They have never stopped chanting "Death to America!" Was giving the Shah of Iran some medical attentions really such a terrible thing to do to Iran? Poland can complain about worse things done to them by Germany and Russia!


Hey! Jimmy Carter let the Shah in the country! Are you saying you're a Carter-lover?


Oh! That's very different! Never mind! :phones:
Buffy

#5 Buffy

Buffy

    Resident Slayer

  • Administrators
  • 8946 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:24 AM

Also, we must recognize the independence of Palestine and maintain the occupation of the Palestinian territories, as required by the security of Israel, especially in view of the approaching war with the ayatollah-fascists seeking their «World Caliphate», namely, world domination.


See Tom? Here's a far *right* Israeli (sounds like Shas or Yisrael Beitenu, but obviously not Kadima or Labour), who won't support annexation of the Palestinian territories.


No person, no matter how vivid an imagination he may have, can invent anything half so droll as the freaks and fancies that originate in the lively brains of little people, :phones:
Buffy

#6 houseknight

houseknight

    Advanced Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:41 AM

On what basis do you associate Iran with notions of a "world caliphate"?

 

I have never come across any suggestion that Iran has anything like this in mind, though I could be wrong, I suppose. What references can you direct me to that support this claim?   

 

On what basis do you associate Iran with notions of a "world caliphate"?

 

I have never come across any suggestion that Iran has anything like this in mind, though I could be wrong, I suppose. What references can you direct me to that support this claim?   

Iranian leaders have explained publicly, that they need WMD for the purpose of Israel annihilation. https://www.timesofi...end-with-trump/



#7 houseknight

houseknight

    Advanced Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:52 AM

See Tom? Here's a far *right* Israeli (sounds like Shas or Yisrael Beitenu, but obviously not Kadima or Labour), who won't support annexation of the Palestinian territories.


No person, no matter how vivid an imagination he may have, can invent anything half so droll as the freaks and fancies that originate in the lively brains of little people, :phones:
Buffy

Recognizing Palestine independence means, that there will be no annexation of Palestine. We must separate our security needs from annexation of Palestine. By the way, our  newly appointed "Left" leader neglects destruction of Jewish settlements inside West Bank, At the bottom line, israeli Left, Right and Center come together. Fat Right accuses "Israel Beitenu" leader Lieberman of turning "Leftist"



#8 exchemist

exchemist

    Creating

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2832 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:54 AM

Iranian leaders have explained publicly, that they need WMD for the purpose of Israel annihilation. https://www.timesofi...end-with-trump/

But I was asking about your claim concerning Iran and a world caliphate. This reference of yours says nothing whatever about that. 

 

Do you have any such reference, or were you just making it up, in order to conflate Iran with Daesh?  


Edited by exchemist, 19 October 2017 - 09:54 AM.


#9 Buffy

Buffy

    Resident Slayer

  • Administrators
  • 8946 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 10:14 AM

We must separate our security needs from annexation of Palestine.


Well, that's a step forward. Funny how so many folks avoid thinking through the implications of that, and think about what alternatives there might be to simple military or settler occupation.

By the way, our  newly appointed "Left" leader neglects destruction of Jewish settlements inside West Bank, At the bottom line, israeli Left, Right and Center come together. Fat Right accuses "Israel Beitenu" leader Lieberman of turning "Leftist"


Oh gosh, Settlements are the 3rd-rail of Israeli politics, and it's *always* the left that can be depended upon to compromise! I mean gosh, look at the history of Kadima! :cheer:

The US political environment right now is getting just as fractured as Israeli politics, but despite the existential threats, the Israeli parties are so much more fun! And gosh, they're actually honest about their differences!


No more wars, no more bloodshed. Peace unto you. Shalom, salaam, forever, :phones:
Buffy

#10 houseknight

houseknight

    Advanced Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 10:22 AM

To me it doesn't matter whether they are Sunni or Shiite if they hate America and attack Americans! Their differences with each other amount to very little with me. Am I suppose to believe that Sunnis are killing Americans in terrorist attacks because they hate Shiites, and am I supposed to believe that Shiites are killing Americans because they hate Sunnis? Before Al Qaeda, the number one hater of America was Iran, I was told they were Shiites, so I assumed that Shiite Islam was the "Bad Guy Religion" maybe the Sunnis were the "Good guys" but then the 9/11 attack occurred and it appears Sunnis hate Americans too. So what is the difference between them really? Al Qaeda and ISIS has the idea of a World Caliphate, but are the Iranians any different about this? They have never stopped chanting "Death to America!" Was giving the Shah of Iran some medical attentions really such a terrible thing to do to Iran? Poland can complain about worse things done to them by Germany and Russia!

You is precise and correct. I'm drawing just practical conclusions of Your point of view.



#11 houseknight

houseknight

    Advanced Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 10:28 AM

But I was asking about your claim concerning Iran and a world caliphate. This reference of yours says nothing whatever about that. 

 

Do you have any such reference, or were you just making it up, in order to conflate Iran with Daesh?  

Known Ayatollah's Ali Khamenei note about "The World's center of power moved to the Persian Gulf", nuclear aspirations, long range booster rockets... Not enough?



#12 TomKalbfus

TomKalbfus

    Questioning

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 132 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 11:18 AM

Hey! Jimmy Carter let the Shah in the country! Are you saying you're a Carter-lover?


Oh! That's very different! Never mind! :phones:
Buffy

Funny that the Democrats so love this deal with Iran, wasn't it in part the Iranians and the Hostage crises that in part at least resulted in Jimmy Carter being a one-term President and which also resulted in Ronald Reagan getting elected? Ronald Reagan was President for two terms, and George H. W. Bush was President for one term after that. Don't the Democrats want revenge against Iran for kicking them out of the White House for a total of 12 years? Apparently not, they have so forgiven the Iranians for making Jimmy Carter a One-Term President, that they want to give them nuclear weapons, and all the feminists in their number are willing to overlook the Iranians mistreatment of women because all they care about is abortion, and having it any which way they want!

 

No, I don't love Jimmy Carter, but it didn't seem at the time that he actually hated America as much as Barack Obama does. For instance, when the Iranians took those Americans hostage, Jimmy Carter didn't say, "Great, kill them!" Jimmy Carter wasn't pleased when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan either. You remember the 1980 Olympics. In 1980, the Summer Olympics were held in Moscow, the Soviet Union, the United States didn't attend! Jimmy Carter just wasn't a good president, but if the Iranians were nicer to America during his Administration, and if the Soviets didn't invade Afghanistan, that might have helped Jimmy Carter win a second term. The Arabs didn't have to spike the price of oil either! All these things coming together resulted in President Jimmy Carter being a one-term President. Do you disagree with the verdict history gave him?



#13 exchemist

exchemist

    Creating

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2832 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 11:35 AM

Known Ayatollah's Ali Khamenei note about "The World's center of power moved to the Persian Gulf", nuclear aspirations, long range booster rockets... Not enough?

Well, no, obviously that is nothing like a goal of a "caliphate", even if he said those words, which I note you have provided no reference for. (Do you have one?)

 

The world centre of power has been with the USA for much of the c.20th and nobody talked of a US "caliphate", or even "empire", so far as I know. The US was simply the most powerful and thus influential country. Maybe - if he said it - Khamenei hopes for that for Iran. If so, he hopes in vain of course, but it could have been just Trump-like empty, posturing rhetoric or something.

 

Sure Iran wants nukes, seeing as everyone around them (Russia, Israel, China, Pakistan, India) already has them. So would I, if I were them, and frankly I see no harm in Iran having them. They are useless as an offensive weapon, but brilliant as a defensive one. The notion that Iran would ever contemplate its own instant destruction by mounting a nuclear attack on Israel is completely fanciful - though people like Netanyahu find it a convenient tool for whipping up hysteria.  Whatever the Iranians may be, they are not nuts. They are sophisticated, calculating people.


Edited by exchemist, 19 October 2017 - 11:37 AM.


#14 Buffy

Buffy

    Resident Slayer

  • Administrators
  • 8946 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 11:42 AM

Sure Iran wants nukes, seeing as everyone around them (Russia, Israel, China, Pakistan, India) already has them. So would I, if I were them...


Exactly.



The Lord's our shepherd says the psalm, but just in case...we better get a bomb, :phones:
Buffy

#15 houseknight

houseknight

    Advanced Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 01:12 PM

But I was asking about your claim concerning Iran and a world caliphate. This reference of yours says nothing whatever about that. 

 

Do you have any such reference, or were you just making it up, in order to conflate Iran with Daesh?  

Shiites have developed the principle of "taqiya", namely obligation to hide their real intentions from their enemies, be it Sunni Islam or "infidels". Therefore we must learn their intentions from their deeds and signs. Obviously, Iran's attempts to capture oil reserves of Saudi Arabia are such sign.



#16 houseknight

houseknight

    Advanced Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 01:22 PM

Well, that's a step forward. Funny how so many folks avoid thinking through the implications of that, and think about what alternatives there might be to simple military or settler occupation.


Oh gosh, Settlements are the 3rd-rail of Israeli politics, and it's *always* the left that can be depended upon to compromise! I mean gosh, look at the history of Kadima! :cheer:

The US political environment right now is getting just as fractured as Israeli politics, but despite the existential threats, the Israeli parties are so much more fun! And gosh, they're actually honest about their differences!


No more wars, no more bloodshed. Peace unto you. Shalom, salaam, forever, :phones:
Buffy

Unfortunately, the concessions in the name of Peace are perceived by Muslims as invitation to attack. Starting from Muhammad himself. Let start learn Qur'an, otherwise You may be trapped to troubles.



#17 exchemist

exchemist

    Creating

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2832 posts

Posted 19 October 2017 - 02:17 PM

Shiites have developed the principle of "taqiya", namely obligation to hide their real intentions from their enemies, be it Sunni Islam or "infidels". Therefore we must learn their intentions from their deeds and signs. Obviously, Iran's attempts to capture oil reserves of Saudi Arabia are such sign.

Aha, so no references to support your claim and instead an argument that we somehow know they are bent on a caliphate even if there is no evidence for it! Brilliant! It must be true then. 

 

And now, I look forward to you not having evidence for your new claim that Iran intends to capture KSA's oil reserves.  How do we know this, please?  Because of a lack of evidence? (Very cunning, these muslims). 





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: oil, Persian Gulf, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, oil consumers