lindagarrette Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 The Millennial Project by Richard Savage is very informative and feasible. Easy to find and very inexpensive from esellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlameTheEx Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I want to make something plain. Rockets can't be used to colonise space. Any viable project to colonise space won't start in earnest for some decades, and won't be finished (in terms of bulk supply from earth) in the next 100 years. Before then the oil will run out. In the unlikely event that it hasn't, we still dare not use it. We will have burned so much that global warming will be a mater of racial survival. How could we create the rocket fuel to deliver thousands of tons of supplies into orbit every year? Right now rocket power is about as cheap as it is ever going to get. In future hikes in oil prices are going start pushing the price up again. The future of space is in electricity. Nuclear powered or solar powered. Electromagnetic canon into near earth orbit, and ion drives from that point on. Furthermore teraforming mars is not the quick or the efficient way of making life better for a few hundred or perhaps few thousand colonists. Mars will have to be colonised as it stands, in much the same way as the moon must. Teraforming will be a matter for their descendants. I do not believe that earth's politicians can hold together a project of such costs over such a long period of time for the benefit of a small foreign population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Rocket power will also be balanced out by two things: more efficient engines and lighter alloys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 Would it be possible to build a self-sufficient colony in space without being on a planet? That may be the first step, once they could provide for themselves well enough, they may be able to produce a surplus of goods that they could then send down to colonists on a planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindagarrette Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Read the book! I keep referring to Marshall Savage's Millennial Project which has most of the answers to the questions that keep popping up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAHD Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Ahh, but it's so much more fun to dream than read, linda. :) my steps to colonise space:1) send ship out to the asteroid belt, skip mars. 2) on the way to mars the ship sends out a probe to map the relative density of materials on the surfaces of asteroids near/in the belt, and choses its final destination based on that data.3)ship detaches furtheur probes/pods that are really just thrusters with a fuel tank and some clamp/spike mechanism to latch on to asteroid rich in whatever materials you can find meeting the requirements to be turned to more fuel.4) use fuel asteroid to refuel ship and probes5) sending pods out again to pick up another rich asteroid.6)latch ship onto asteroid fully refuled and 'break' to drop it close to earth orbit to be recovred for raw materials processing (in zero-G) to create more ships. 6)repeat from step 1 as ships become available. things could be furthur streamlined by making the ship itself a smelter with a processing facilityand some sort of mass-driver to electrically fire raw materials where needed, somewhat saving on fuel. perhapse even having a facility setup mid way to build the ships in zero-g? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMAK Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 why does it even have to be human bodies that colonize space? instead of just sending out probes, my (probably unoriginal) suggestion would be to develop AI that would not only be able to interpret the data, but also terraform Mars (or some other moon/planet) once it gets there. of course the most pressing problem would be the raw material and ensuring the AI doesnt break down. im new, btw.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 The other day I had a sci-fi moment. Perhaps a good story line, although it's been done before, but not at quite the same level. We've had Sci-fi stories involving some "seed" or organic molecule that travels thru space, lands on a plant (such as earth) and takes over. What if instead of an organic molecule, we developed nano technology? If we made a singular nano machine that when it comes in contact with the needed resources, slowely uses the resources to build larger machines? A cross between Virtuosity and It Came from Outer Space? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted January 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Would it be possible to build a self-sufficient colony in space without being on a planet? That may be the first step, once they could provide for themselves well enough, they may be able to produce a surplus of goods that they could then send down to colonists on a planet.Hm, not too sure about that. I think a space colony (such as those proposed by Gerard K O'Neil and others) would still need input from, say an asteroid for example, if they're going to produce their own products of whatever kind and sell it to other worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted January 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 things could be furthur streamlined by making the ship itself a smelter with a processing facilityand some sort of mass-driver to electrically fire raw materials where needed, somewhat saving on fuel. perhapse even having a facility setup mid way to build the ships in zero-g?To make use of the asteroid belt is a great idea that I agree with. Also, industries and ship docks and other facilities in space will be necessary if we want to produce large ships or components quickly. To do so in zero-G makes more sense than to do it on a world much heavier than some of our largest moons I think. In space you can build structures as large as you wish, and you're not confined by the limits of rockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted January 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Read the book! I keep referring to Marshall Savage's Millennial Project which has most of the answers to the questions that keep popping up here.I will try to get myself a copy of that book, it does sound interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted January 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 why does it even have to be human bodies that colonize space? instead of just sending out probes, my (probably unoriginal) suggestion would be to develop AI that would not only be able to interpret the data, but also terraform Mars (or some other moon/planet) once it gets there. of course the most pressing problem would be the raw material and ensuring the AI doesnt break down. im new, btw....I've been thinking about this myself, but then it was mostly the matter of us uploading to computers and robots, so that we could go wherever we want. Also, it would give us some sort of immortality, which I believe would make it more accepted to carry out long term projects like terraforming. (I suspect that if we can ever become immortal, we will no longer be impatient.) Anyway, using advanced robotics and AI to sort of pave the way as you suggest is probably a good idea, so that humans can follow shortly thereafter. Or, we could use both humans and robots, as I think they could complement each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted January 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 The other day I had a sci-fi moment. Perhaps a good story line, although it's been done before, but not at quite the same level. We've had Sci-fi stories involving some "seed" or organic molecule that travels thru space, lands on a plant (such as earth) and takes over. What if instead of an organic molecule, we developed nano technology? If we made a singular nano machine that when it comes in contact with the needed resources, slowely uses the resources to build larger machines? A cross between Virtuosity and It Came from Outer Space?For a while I've been thinking about something similar, that is if we found a new organism that was very different from what we know, would we be able to tell if it was life or a designed nano population? But then again, "life" is whatever we decide to define as life, isn't it? Anyway, I like your idea. Maybe we could construct certain selfreplicating nanomachines that could terraform planets "quickly" or "morph" an asteroid into a radiotelescope... we could form the solar system as we wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoa182 Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Its not the weight of individual modules that worries me - it is the total. You are trying to land an entire civilisation. Economics is all here, and anything that adds to the weight of the modules bumps up the cost. I do wish you would come to terms with the idea that man's place in space will be decided by accountants. Nope. Airships just wont work on Mars. Airships work on earth because they are lighter than the surrounding air. The atmosphere on mars is so thin it weighs practically nothing. I doubt aircraft of any sort are viable. http://www.robotbooks.com/Mars-plane.htm Proposal for Mars Exploration byRobotic Plane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoa182 Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 We should realy start to think about sending Equipment to mars before we actually get there. By 20 years time robotics, i believe will have developed far beyond todays capabilities. Both in robotic engineering will have most or all of the abilities of human motion. Intelligence will be fairly good, I dont think we are certain how far we are going to get with A.I in 20 years, considering the slow pace. Unless we get some sort of breakthrough. Computer power wont be a problem and will be fairly cheap by then. Now Robots should be the first colonists, They should do some basic proceedures to setup some sort of structure on mars for the arrival of man, That I feel is the best possible way to make a succesful first mission to mars. Get the the Structures up before we arrive and machines so we can use them. Hopefuly nanotechnology will have built the Famous Nano Assembler People talk about. Which would replicated and build structures its self. Possibly build a whole city infact ahaha. Since in theory a nano assembler would build anything from atoms. But its still theoretical and we need to prepare for other options. We know that we will have super strong structures, even by the time we reach the moon. Carbon nanotubes - can be 100 x stronger than steel and 1/6 the weight, So you can actually life a lot more off of earth itself because the weight will have been reduced dramitcly. nanotech will also help with shielding against radiation. all electronics and sensors will also be highly intergrated into the materials. so that = less weight again. Im not Sure how advanced we will be by 2020 with things like nano red blood cells. Which, if you were to replace 10% of you're blood with these artificial blood cells you would be able to hold you're breath for 4 hours without the need for oxygen. These nano red blood cells are 100X more efficient than our current red blood cells. So Nanotech will play a Massive role in space exploration and colonization.Also biotech might helo to engineer humans to make it a bit easier for them to live on another planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlameTheEx Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 whoa182 Your link is for a proposed mars plane. That is a very different thing from a mars airship. Planes are heavier than air while airships are lighter (or to be pedantic - the same weight). The problem with planes are rather different - landing. Landing was the topic under discussion. The lower the atmospheric pressure the higher the stalling speed, and hence the landing speed. Landing such a plane will be no joke On the other hand.… Assuming the supplies came down attached to something that was part parachute and part glider. It would still land with an uncomfortably large velocity, but that velocity could be entirely horizontal. With a smooth landing field you might just have something. The capsules could slide to a stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAHD Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 "These nano red blood cells are 100X more efficient than our current red blood cells."links? or should 'are' have been 'could be'? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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