TINNY Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Yes. This is the topic of a lot of sci-fi books. Carl Sagan's Contact and Michael P. Kube-Mc Dowell's Emprise come to mind.what do you mean by 'yes'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 How would you attempt to communicate? Voice? Sign language? Music? I think that the best way to communicate would be in math, at least in the beginning. The best example I know of was in Contact, by Carl Sagan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 how to communicate by math? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Well, you start a basic dialogue, learning simple numbers, say, one through nine. Then you can set up simple math equations : 1 + 1 = 2. 1 + 2 = 3. Now we know numbers, addition, and equal. Then subtraction, more advanced arithmatic, and logic. But the key is to start with something basic that any advanced civilization has to know, hence math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 so how do you exchange information between them? those maths stuff are only statements. you can't ask their 'name' for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 No, but you can represent numbers with numbers of objects, or amounts of information, then attach a symbol to that number. An example: Assume that we are communicating with a computer. We show them one circle, and the number one. We repeat that with different shapes until they are able to attribute the symbol with the number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 what are the possibilities of life forms that evolution can produce? I thought it unlikely that a random process of evolution on another planet would result in similar life forms as those on earth. Unless, ahem, there is the underlying template.That is because you won't let go of "random". There is nothing RANDOM about the evolutionary process. It follows the well established laws of physics. Too much height or weight would not work because of physics. Species that evolve in regions with a bandpass of what we call "visible light" develop senors that detect it. Audible vibrations, available energy sources, .... It would seem that there are certain evolutionary advantages that would be common across a universe with fixed laws. Not that it would be identical, or even the typical "different set of head bumps" we find on most TV Sci-Fi shows. And it would seem that an intelectual advantage would be most advantgeous to creaures with certain levels of physical dexterity. It would be hard to imagine a successful manufacturing development with creatures that lack the ability to grasp and manipulate objects. Perhaps not requiring two arms, hands and fingers. But a jelly fish type creature could not build a radio transmitter no matter how much mental capacity. It would lack the incremental manual dexterity to even start the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Yup. Not all. To some, it serves to show that life is not mere chance, but actually a natural consequence brought about by the 'underlying template'.Ah but it would destroy any Revelation based religion. Especially any that would assert some unique relationship between Earth Humans and it's god. Does this religious template maker create a Mohammad for each world? A different set of laws based on their physical construction? Does a 2nd coming happen at different times in different parts of the cosmos? In which case the Revelations, the laws, ... would all be arbitrary and not the absolute claimed by any Monotheistic revelation based religion. So yes, the only relgions that would be made irrelevant by finding extraterestrial life would be the monotheistic revelation based ones, primarily Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Well, you start a basic dialogue, learning simple numbers, say, one through nine. Then you can set up simple math equations : 1 + 1 = 2. 1 + 2 = 3. Now we know numbers, addition, and equal. Then subtraction, more advanced arithmatic, and logic. But the key is to start with something basic that any advanced civilization has to know, hence math.Yes, we would first establish a system of common understanding based on numbers and math. From there anything could eventually be communicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Ah but it would destroy any Revelation based religion. Especially any that would assert some unique relationship between Earth Humans and it's god. Does this religious template maker create a Mohammad for each world? A different set of laws based on their physical construction? Does a 2nd coming happen at different times in different parts of the cosmos? In which case the Revelations, the laws, ... would all be arbitrary and not the absolute claimed by any Monotheistic revelation based religion. So yes, the only relgions that would be made irrelevant by finding extraterestrial life would be the monotheistic revelation based ones, primarily Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Let's not go that far. If there was an omnipresent, omnipotent, all-powerful god, there would be no reason for him to choose one planet as the only one to reveal himself to, so he would do so to all of them. It only counters the idea that we are special, not that there is god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 That is because you won't let go of "random". There is nothing RANDOM about the evolutionary process. It follows the well established laws of physics. oh i see. what i was thinking of was the 'randomness' of genetic mutation. ok, it shouldn't apply here. Too much height or weight would not work because of physics. Species that evolve in regions with a bandpass of what we call "visible light" develop senors that detect it. Audible vibrations, available energy sources, .... ok,ok, i get the idea. It would seem that there are certain evolutionary advantages that would be common across a universe with fixed laws. Not that it would be identical, or even the typical "different set of head bumps" we find on most TV Sci-Fi shows. And it would seem that an intelectual advantage would be most advantgeous to creaures with certain levels of physical dexterity. It would be hard to imagine a successful manufacturing development with creatures that lack the ability to grasp and manipulate objects. Perhaps not requiring two arms, hands and fingers. But a jelly fish type creature could not build a radio transmitter no matter how much mental capacity. It would lack the incremental manual dexterity to even start the process.now i know why we are the best of creatures. you provide very good explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Freethinker gives a great argument to evolution developing towards a "best" in any given advantage, i.e. intelligence, strength, speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 So yes, the only relgions that would be made irrelevant by finding extraterestrial life would be the monotheistic revelation based ones, primarily Christianity, Islam and Judaism.so it begs the question of whether that ET has free will. If yes, then it would be unfair for them to not have revelation. But it would also be the case that humans are responsible to probe the universe to spread the message. And so, by being religious, humans need to master science and technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Let's not go that far. If there was an omnipresent, omnipotent, all-powerful god, there would be no reason for him to choose one planet as the only one to reveal himself to, so he would do so to all of them. It only counters the idea that we are special, not that there is god.the only specialty of humans accoring to religion is free will. ETs might be more intelligent or have indentical physique, but with no free will, they are not special. still animalistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Freethinker gives a great argument to evolution developing towards a "best" in any given advantage, i.e. intelligence, strength, speed.not surprising though. it's well rehearsed by atheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Yes, we would first establish a system of common understanding based on numbers and math. From there anything could eventually be communicatedi don't understand how we get from '1+1 = 2' to 'where do you come from?'. And who knows whether they would be interested to learn to communicate with us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jizum3434 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 well u see buddy, your absolutely correct that the chances of another planet just like ours to support the same kind of life we have here is very low. even so, the massiveness of space and mystery out there keeps people wondering, and think about it, people in the old days never would beleive it if you told them that some day we would go to the moon, and here we are attempting to go beyond that. and even though we cannot travel fast enough to ever get there there might be other ways to get there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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