Plants, Water, Microwaves.

[hallenrm]

During the course of my browsing some sites on the Internet, trying for some interesting info about the Evil and Good, I hity this peculiar piece of information

 

Micro-waved Water - See what it does to Plants!

Our thanks to Marshall Dudley of Knoxville, TN for sharing his grand daughter, Arielle Reynolds’ experiment with us. Both Arielle’s mother, Christina, and Grandpa Have much to be proud of. Congratulations, Arielle, well done!

 

Below is a sience fair project that my granddaughter did for 2006. In it she took filered water and divided it into two parts. The first part she heated to boiling in a pan on the stove, and the second part she heated to boiling in a microwave. Then after cooling she used the water to water two identical plants to see if there would be any difference in the growth between the normal boiled water and the water boiled in a microwave. She was thinking that the structure or energy of the water may be compromised by microwave. As it turned out, even she was amazed at the difference.

 

The plants were genetically identical, they were produced from grafts from the same parent plant, so that variable can be eliminated.

 

This paragraph I picked from a webpage

http://www.hinduism.co.za/food.htm

 

Now the sceptical scientist in me does not accept everything I read. So I decided for a community experiment. There are several enthusiastic experimenters who visit HSF regularly, The name of my 'brother' Turtle springs in foremost in my mind in this context. Let anybody interested do this experiment, it does not require any elaborate equipment or setup, all one needs is a microwave oven, a plant, some water, some time and ofcourse a lots of enthusiasm to experiment.

 

Here' the method detailed on the same website

 

Plant some seeds in 2 pots. Water one with the cooled water that was microwaved and one that's from the tap. The seeds watered from the microwaved water will not sprout. I tried this comparing microwaved water as compared to conventional heating and it's true - the microwaved water prevented the seeds from growing! There is something to this. After having used a microwave for 15 years religiously, I finally stopped 2 1/2 years ago after doing some research. There is a wealth of info on the net about how microwaved food is chemically altered, etc. I just figured why not err on the side of caution and use other means of cooking. I use a flashbake oven which uses halogen light technology. The seeds sprouted when using water from this oven.

 

So friends, let the experiment start, post your observations and pictures of the two plants every other day for a week. Let us prove or disprove the claim! :hihi: :eek_big: :eek2:

[Bobo]

I ran a science experiment along the same vein, but instead of microwaving the water, I microwaved the seeds. I recall that there was a variance in the number of sprouted seeds vs. the control, but even some of the nuked seeds grew. As compared to water that has be vibrated to produce friction and heat, I can see no scientific validity to such influence on germination of the seeds.

 

Even pretty poluted water will sprout some seeds. I would suggest that water exposed to sunlight has had more deleterious radiation than some in a micro-wave. That would imply that all rainwater would not allow seeds to germinate.

 

I can see no real reason to even waste time on such an obviously erroneous conclusion.

 

Just my two cents worth and experience.

[hallenrm]

The essence of science is not in past experience alone, the development of science demands exploration and experimentation, to find whether all that we hold true is always true; are there any exceptions to the conventional wisdom. For example, a few months ago, someone asked whether water would be electrolyzed with Alternating Current (see the thread AC electrolysis), conventional wisdom drove several experienced members here to respond that there can be no electrolysis with AC, an assertion that was proved to be fallacious by experiments conducted by Turtle.

 

There is always room for experimenting, provided you have the will and resources. :cup:

[CraigD]

I’m uncertain what the proposed experiment is.

 

In the first part of post number one, the linked to article states

The first part she heated to boiling in a pan on the stove, and the second part she heated to boiling in a microwave. Then after cooling she used the water to water two identical plants to see if there would be any difference in the growth between the normal boiled water and the water boiled in a microwave.

Later, is prescribes

Plant some seeds in 2 pots. Water one with the cooled water that was microwaved and one that's from the tap.

Which does not mention boiling water on a stove.

 

The experimental procedure needs to be better defined, and blinded.

 

Here’s a draft experimental design:

1. A person (Alice) places about a quantity of of water in a pot.
   
2. On a stove, Alice boils the water for about 2 minutes, then allows it to cool.
   
3. Alice places half the water in microwavable containers.
   
4. Alice boils the the water in the continers in a microwave overn for about 2 minutes, then allows it to cool.
   
5. Alice decants the water into several identical containers, discarding excess not-microwaved water so that there are equal amount of both kinds of water, and group the two kinds in separate areas on the work table.
   
6. Alice label the 2 areas with 2 random 2 digit numbers (drawn blind from a “hat”).
   
7. Alice notes on a single piece of paper which number is for the microwaved water, seals the paper in an envelope, and places it in a secure place (that Bob can’t see).
   
8. A person (Bob) not involved in the preparation, who doesn’t know which collection of containers contains the microwaved and not-microwaved water, labels the 2 kinds of water with 2 random 2 digit numbers.
   
9. Bob notes on a single piece of paper which of the container label numbers goes with which of the area labels numbers, seals it in an envelope, and places it in a secure place (that Alice can’t see).
   
10. Following package instructions, Alice plants seeds from the same packet in separate identical pots.
    
11. Alice labels each pot with the numbers from the water containers
    
12. Following package instructions, Alice waters each with identical amounts and following identical schedules, using water from the container with matching the pot’s label.
    
13. When the water is used up, Alice notes on a piece of paper the label number of the plant that appears healthiest, or notes that she can detect no difference.
    
14. If no difference is detected, the experiment is over, with a null result.
    
15. Alice and bob retrieve and compare their pieces of paper, and determine which of the 2 kinds of water was used to water the healthier and less healthy plant.
    

As many as possible of the experiments should be run in parallel.

 

Without blinding, the experiment is not valid, as the expectation of the experimenter may effect how she cares for the plants.

[hallenrm]

That's superb set of instructions! My heartfelt thanks for you dear CraigD.:cup:

 

But, I have a lingering doubt! I wonder if the expermenter in the linked article implied that the water was boiled in a microwave oven every day, before it was used for watering (after cooling ofcourse) or whether microwaved water was stored for the period of the experiment (as is suggested in your procedure).

 

I would therefore suggest that experimenters should try both approaches. :cup:

[CraigD]

I wonder if the expermenter in the linked article implied that the water was boiled in a microwave oven every day, before it was used for watering (after cooling ofcourse) or whether microwaved water was stored for the period of the experiment (as is suggested in your procedure).

 

I would therefore suggest that experimenters should try both approaches. :D

It’s best, I think, to design the experiment to be most likely to produce the hypothesized effect (plants watered with water heated in a microwave oven water grow differently than plants watered with water heated on a stove), so the procedure should be to reheat and cool the water each day (both in a microwave, and on a stove).

 

This makes the experiment more difficult (that is, more effort-consuming) for Alice and Bob, and introduces the need for new checks, both to assure that both waters are at the same temperature when applied to the plants, and to assure that nobody knows which plant is receiving which kind of water until the experiment is complete.

 

Here’s a revised draft design:

1. A person (Alice) decants tapwater water into several identical containers.
   
2. Alice labels half of the containers with 1 random (drawn blind from a “hat”) 2 digit number (A), and half with another (:).
   
3. Alice label 2 identical pots with 2 random 2 digit numbers (C and D).
   
4. Alice notes on a single piece of paper which numbered pot will receive water from which numbered container, seals the paper in an envelope, and places it in a secure place (that Bob can’t see).
   
5. Another person (Bob) notes on a single piece of paper which numbered container (C or D) will be heated on a stove (S), and which will be heated on a microwave (M), seals the paper in an envelope, and places it in a secure place (that Alice can’t see).
   
6. Alice plants identical seeds in each pot.
   
7. Each day (including just after planting):
   1. 
      
   2. Bob decants the water from the S container into a stove/microwave safe pot (eg: Correl “Visions” glassware), and covers it
      
   3. On a stove, Bob raises the water to a boil and boils it for 2 minutes
      
   4. Bob places places a thermometer inside the pot, places the pot in a refrigerator, and cools it to room temperature (22° C).
      
   5. Bob decants the water into the S container.
      
   6. Bob repeats steps 7.1-4 with the M containers, using a microwave oven in place of a stove
      
   7. Alice waters the plants in pot C and D with the corresponding water from containers A and B.
      

[*]When the water is used up, Alice notes on a piece of paper the label number of the plant that appears healthiest, or notes that she can detect no difference.

[*]If no difference is detected, the experiment is over, with a null result.

[*]Alice and bob retrieve and compare their pieces of paper, and determine which of the 2 kinds of water was used to water the healthier and less healthy plant.

Note that, because Alice and Bob have more interaction in this design, so diligence must be excercised to assure that blindness is preserved, and neither Alice not Bob know which plant is receiving M water, and which is receiving S. Ideally, at least Bob should be skeptical of the hypothesized effect, so that he has no incentive to attempt to defeat the blinding measures, for example by placing a secret mark known by Alice on the containers.

[Michaelangelica]

:eek2:

I can't se that two types of boiled water could make any difference.

 

Still, there are a lot of strange claims made about the nature of water.

 

It seems we don't really fully understand fully how this ubiquitous compound works.

[hallenrm]

Isn't it strange, that none of the members of this science forum volunteered so far to experiment? After all experimentation is the hall mark of science! Or isn't that so?

[Moontanman]

This idea does provoke some curiosity in me but before i start such an experiment I wonder exactly what microwaving water could change that would prevent seeds from sprouting. Does anyone have any ideas why microwaves would change water in some way that other forms of electromagnetic radiation do not. How is sunlight any less damaging than microwaves when it heats water? Or infrared, or UV, a mechanism really needs to suggested. I've seen a lot of hype about microwaves being some how unnatural or something similar but so far nothing has panned out to show this to be true.

[freeztar]

I agree with others that it does not seem that a microwave would make a difference.

 

I might be sprouting some lettuce for winter growing (though I may be a little late to get it in the ground before the first frost - I've never grown in the winter before). If I do end up sprouting, I'll run this experiment, blindly, as Craig suggested. :QuestionM