Gymnophiona, the third Order.

[Ganoderma]

I was lucky enough about 10 years ago to acquire some land dwelling caecilians (Dermophis mexicanus and an unknown Ichthyophis). They are truly fascinating creatures and was wondering if anyone here was studying them or had studied them? there is a great book written by Taylor "caecilians of the world". Quite rare but available sometimes, usually at universities.

 

Also, apparently they have gone through a large classification change and I heard they went from 5 to 2 families....anyone have any info on this?

 

Some reading (there is lots around, but seems to mostly regurgitate what has already been said in the 60's :) ). There are more things been studied now though, thankfully.

 

http://biomechanics.bio.uci.edu/_media/pdf_papers/zjls_caec.pdf

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v440/n7086/full/nature04403.html

http://www.mk-richardson.com/PDFs/Wilk_etal_02_EER.pdf

[Michaelangelica]

Wiki:

 

A Swiss researcher, Daniel Hofer, has recently found that certain caecilians produce potent skin poisons from specialized poison glands.

 

The caecilians are an order (Gymnophiona or Apoda) of amphibians that superficially resemble earthworms or snakes. They mostly live hidden in the ground, which makes them the least explored order of amphibians, and widely unknown.

 

British nature expert David Attenborough found that the young can increase their weight up to ten times in one week, post birth. When on filming the nest the young had teeth. It was then discovered that the young did not just diet on secretion/ milk but that the mother was able to reproduce fatty skin every three days for the young to feast on. This was documented on his BBC programme Life in Cold Blood and is the only currently known instance of dermatotrophy, or deriving necessary nutrients from the consumption of skin.

Caecilian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[CraigD]

The only caecilians I’ve seen outside of a zoo was a dead one at a constructions site in southern West Virginia (about lat 37 N, long 81 W), in the summer of 1981. About 1 m long, it resembled almost exactly reference book photos and illustrations, such as those in the preceding wikipedia link. The folk who showed it to me, and who killed it, reported that it moved quickly and behaved aggressively, not attempting to escape. It was unearthed while excavating for a house foundation, at a depth of about 2 meters. Most of the folk said they’d heard of such animals being found under similar conditions, and a few reported previous encounters. The consensus among them was that it was a species of snake.

 

What I found remarkable was that every text I read about caecilians described no species living in North America, yet alone where I saw this one, in a region known for ski resorts, long cold winters and cool summers. They are described as tropical to semi-tropical only. The identification was unambiguous, a near perfect match for illustrations and photos.

 

I’ve long regretted not bringing a professional biologist to see this dead West Virginian caecilian, as ever since I’ve encounter skepticism about its identification in the form of insisting I confused it with a snake. :shrug:

[Michaelangelica]

So how come these guys aren't caecilians?

 

 

 

Giant Gippsland Earthworm

One of the truly remarkable discoveries in Victoria in the past twenty years are the remains of Early Cretaceous labyrinthodont amphibians. Until this material was found, it was thought that the last of these had died out in the Early Jurassic. To find them persisting in Victoria in the Early Cretaceous was more unexpected than if a living dinosaur were found today because the Victorian specimens extended the range of labyrinthodonts by about 85 million years. Living amphibians have a greater tolerance to cold than do living reptiles. Therefore the key to why labyrinthodonts survived in Victoria long after becoming extinct elsewhere may be related to the fact that Victoria was then a cold, polar region.

 

This great radiation of amphibians in the late Palaeozoic and early Mesozoic does not include the frogs, salamanders, newts and caecelians which are the only amphibians alive today. They were a later development, appearing in the Late Triassic when the labyrinthodonts and lepospondyls were declining in diversity. It was at this time that many other vertebrate groups were also making their first appearance such as dinosaurs, mammals, and flying reptiles or pterosaurs.

Museum Victoria [ed-online] Dinosaurs & Fossils - Invasion of the land

[CraigD]

So how come these guys aren't caecilians?

...

Giant Gippsland Earthworm

Because they are segmented worms, members of an entirely different phylum, the annelids, than caecilians, which are in the same phylum we are, the chordates. Caecilians have skulls, brains, jaws, spines, ribs, an 3-chambered amphibian heart, and with rare exception, 2 lungs. Worms have multiple muscular bands that work like hearts, no bones or lungs. In short, they’re almost completely different animals, similar only in general body shape and habitat – and being rare and weird :)

[Moontanman]

The only caecilians I’ve seen outside of a zoo was a dead one at a constructions site in southern West Virginia (about lat 37 N, long 81 W), in the summer of 1981. About 1 m long, it resembled almost exactly reference book photos and illustrations, such as those in the preceding wikipedia link. The folk who showed it to me, and who killed it, reported that it moved quickly and behaved aggressively, not attempting to escape. It was unearthed while excavating for a house foundation, at a depth of about 2 meters. Most of the folk said they’d heard of such animals being found under similar conditions, and a few reported previous encounters. The consensus among them was that it was a species of snake.

 

What I found remarkable was that every text I read about caecilians described no species living in North America, yet alone where I saw this one, in a region known for ski resorts, long cold winters and cool summers. They are described as tropical to semi-tropical only. The identification was unambiguous, a near perfect match for illustrations and photos. :)

 

I’ve long regretted not bringing a professional biologist to see this dead West Virginian caecilian, as ever since I’ve encounter skepticism about its identification in the form of insisting I confused it with a snake. :)

 

It is genuinely sad you didn't at least preserve that specimen. There are (possibly) still some species of odd small animals to be identified. Amphibians tend to have small populations in restricted habitats more so than most vertebrates. I've had the dark blue Caecilian (sp. unknown) breed in my eco-aquariums. They gave birth to live young and I had three generations of them at one time. Caecilians are very interesting animals and show that the snake shape has evolved several times in several different groups and even phyla of animals. Amphibians are an odd type of animal to begin with. Where I live we have several types of large amphibians, sirens, some of the local species get to be 40" or more in length and are a hand full to catch. Often they are big around as a mans arm and full of sharp teeth. Amphumas are another aggressive amphibian we have along with dwarf sirens and dwarf mudpuppies. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find an unknown rare species in the area you found the one you were talking about. I grew up in WV, I've seen lots of odd things come out of the hillside in springs and wells. Most of them were amphibians. There is a story that is passed around in native fish enthusiast circles about an a giant mudpuppy that lived in a small series of streams in Ohio. They were described as being several feet long with large antlers (probably gills) and were only seen one time after a forest fire had totally destroyed their small stream habitat sometime about 200 years ago.

[Ganoderma]

are you sure it was a caecilian? i am not sure but i cannot think of any that live in such a cool place in the USA. it wasn't a worm or something similar was it?

 

 

i used to keep a few caecilians for a while and tried desparately to find more. a friend of mine has traveled to africa, asia and central/south america in search of them, and did obtain some. but not many so i was unable to get any either.

 

to me, these represent a large chunk of the evolutionary line, an important one that would be a shame to loose! people talk about conservation....and i cant comment. my friend seemed to find lots in given areas, it was just to easy to find areas. they have the advantage of living under ground, this at least makes it harder for people to kill them directly. there is still habitat loss and deforestation (leaving dry dirt that they cannot live in)...but as far as amphibians go, they got a better situation than frogs and sally's i think.

 

i am still secretly hoping every time i go into the mountains i will find the first sp. in Taiwan....probably none here, but i always have it at the back of my mind every time i hike :):):):)