rileyj Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 does anyone have any info on this topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Excerpts from harunyahya.com(Islamic/Creationist POV) on Freemasonry:...Masonry as a school of thought. The most important unifying influence among Masons is their philosophy-which can be best described according to such terms as "materialism" and "secular humanism."...history of the Masons' struggle against theistic religions. Freemasons have played an important role in Europe's alienation from religion, and in its place, founding of a new order based on the philosophies of materialism and secular humanismFrom Wikipedia:...Freemasonry is often called a "secret society", and in fact is considered by many to be the very prototype for such societies. Many Masons say that it is more accurately described as a "society with secrets". The degree of secrecy varies widely around the world.Freemasonry upholds the principles of "Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth" (or in France: "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity"). It teaches moral lessons through rituals. Members working through the rituals are taught by "degrees". Freemasons are also commonly involved in public service and charity work, as well as providing a social outlet for their membersWhile Freemasonry as an organization does not directly involve itself in politics, its members have tended over the years to support certain kinds of political causes with which they have become associated in the public eye: the separation of Church and State, the establishment of secular public schools, and democratic revolutionsIn modern democracies, Freemasonry is occasionally accused of being a sort of club, or network, where a lot of influence peddling, and perhaps illegal dealings, take placeThis is all I can give for now. Hope it helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlameTheEx Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Rather amusing really. The Freemasons started of as a club for stone masons. You know, the people who actually did the carving and forming of the stones, whenever a cathedral was built. After the enthusiasm for cathedrals stopped, and the job of stone masonry just about died out with it, the club got taken over by a load of cranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Originally posted by: TINNYExcerpts from harunyahya.com(Islamic/Creationist POV) on Freemasonry:...Masonry as a school of thought. The most important unifying influence among Masons is their philosophy-which can be best described according to such terms as "materialism" and "secular humanism."...history of the Masons' struggle against theistic religions. Freemasons have played an important role in Europe's alienation from religion, and in its place, founding of a new order based on the philosophies of materialism and secular humanismYou'll never get a clue will you Tinny. That site you keep referring to is never right. The info each and every time is shown to be bogus. And here once more we find at least consistancy. Freemasonry is NOT a SECULAR organization. e.g. I as an Atheist would not be allowed to join the Freemasons. It is REQUIRED that you accept a Supreme being and although it CLAIMS to be "non-denominational" and non-aligned, it does specifically promote the Christian bible. From the Official web site of Freemasonry in North America: "The Masonic Service Association of North America Statement on Freemasonry and Religion Prepared by the Masonic Information Center Basic Principles. Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It requires of its members a belief in God as part of the obligation of every responsible adult, ... The Supreme Being. Masons believe that there is one God... Volume of the Sacred Law. An open volume of the Sacred Law, "the rule and guide of life," is an essential part of every Masonic meeting. The Volume of the Sacred Law in the Judeo/Christian tradition is the Bible; to Freemasons of other faiths, it is the book held holy by them." http://www.msana.com/religion.htm As such Freemasonry is OPPOSED to Secular Humanism. You really need to find sources that aren't filled with lies and errors Tinny. We would all benefit from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctus Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 riljevi, I think it may interest you to look for the secret society "Illuminati". I doubt they have got really the power one can read about in different places, but it is quite interesting anyway (and also more scientifique). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Freethinker, thanks for your advice.I really don't have that much time on the computer as I would have liked to in order to meticulously verify every info. I was just hoping to give some information. BTW, I did mention where it was from and its POV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 From ]http://www.msana.com/historyfm.htm,During the late 1700s it was one of the organizations most responsible for spreading the ideals of the Enlightenment: the dignity of man and the liberty of the individual, the right of all persons to worship as they choose, the formation of democratic governments, and the importance of public education. Masons supported the first public schools in both Europe and America.I thought the Enlightenment was basically secular humanism. But anyway, as FT mentioned, it required a belief in God. The Supreme Being. Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ many different ways to seek, and to express what they know of God. Masonry primarily uses the appellation, "Grand Architect of the Universe," and other non-sectarian titles, to address the Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer, concentrating on God, rather than differences among themselves. Masonry believes in religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal, private, and sacred.Seems rather pragmatic. Perhaps a sort of Pantheistic Humanism?From webster: Pantheism- 2 : the worship of all gods of different creeds, cults, or peoples indifferently; also : toleration of worship of all gods (as at certain periods of the Roman empire) The website harunyahya.com mainly got its views about freemasonry from this catholic encyclopedia: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Originally posted by: TINNYFreethinker, thanks for your advice.I really don't have that much time on the computer as I would have liked to in order to meticulously verify every info. I was just hoping to give some information. BTW, I did mention where it was from and its POV. Yes you did indicate what source you had used. And yes time is tight. But since you have been shown that this sites is far less than credible, one would think you would put your time and efforts into more productive resources. Besides, you know I am always here for you Tinny, to help you find the truth! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Originally posted by: TINNYI thought the Enlightenment was basically secular humanism. But anyway, as FT mentioned, it required a belief in God.Now your confusing me Tinny. We were discussing the Free Masons. I showed that, contrary to your first comment, from that bogus site, they are NOT Secular. That they REQUIRE a god belief of some kind. Now, were they active in promoting "The Enlightenment" of the 1700's? Yes they were. But they were not the sum total of "The Enlightmentment". Your comment here indicates that connection. It would be more correct to say "The Enlightenment" was definately Humanistic in basis. But more of a Religious Humanism. It took Science at least a century to provide a sufficiently supported knowledge base to allow a well reasoned Secular/ Atheistic view. This is why it was more common for the Founding Fathers of the US to consider themselves Deists or Infidels, rather than Atheists. Seems rather pragmatic. Perhaps a sort of Pantheistic Humanism?From webster: Pantheism- 2 : the worship of all gods of different creeds, cults, or peoples indifferently; also : toleration of worship of all gods (as at certain periods of the Roman empire)As I stated, a Religious Humanism. The website harunyahya.com mainly got its views about freemasonry from this catholic encyclopedia:Funny that a Islamic site would choose to accept something from a source they claim to be wrong? The Koran considers people of the book (The bible) to be fools. But I guess what ever makes it easy for them is fine once you decide that facts are not relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TINNY Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Freethinker, I agree until... Funny that a Islamic site would choose to accept something from a source they claim to be wrong? The Koran considers people of the book (The bible) to be fools. But I guess what ever makes it easy for them is fine once you decide that facts are not relevant.the site did not just simply 'accept' the info. Anyway, there are some things in common. nonethelesss, i do agree that harun yahya is sometimes rather naive to well-studied people simply because he tries to present things for the laymen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by: TINNYi do agree that harun yahya is sometimes rather naive to well-studied people simply because he tries to present things for the laymen.Lying to people is NOT the way to "present things for the laymen". Providing false information is NOT the way to "present things for the laymen". Making FACTS more accessable IS. "harun yahya is sometimes rather naive to well-studied people" because [/i]"well-studied people"[/i] see thru that lies and mis-info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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