"i" am not an illusion

[EWright]

So we eventually program a computer with a perception of self realization, self worth, conciousness... we it to perceive a world inside that computer and tell it a tree is a tree, a star is a star, etc., and wrap it all up in a neat little "universe" that is dark and has no end, so it can never perceive what is outside of its world... namely us.

 

We give it a set of rules to limit it, called "physics", which it can strive to achieve an understanding of, but based on the limiting factors imposed on it by these physics, it can never escape its universe and influence ours with its own will. We progam such things as light years and emense distances, which it also perceives as real. We give it other beings to interact with, such as family, friends, enemies, and even teachers who guide it in the ways of learning anything it chooses, within the context of its universe.

 

However, of all the beings we created for it to interact with, it is the only one with concious thought. The others are complicated programs simply made up of electrons in a biological form. And we've made these beings and the entire world it lives on so increadibly complex, that it can never even hope to grasp all of the knowledge, places, "persons", and experiences that it includes.

 

Now based on how we feel this 'being' of ours lives its 'life'... we can choose to give it access to our world; to know us and to interact with us from that point on. After all, we had other beings here before who turned on us and had to destroy them, so we want to be sure this being is worthy. Others of its kind will be welcome too, but we'll create each within its own unique computer program, so each can be judged individually. And each will have just as complex world as the others.

 

Would they ever know they didn't actually "exist"? That their world and everything around them exists to an even lesser extent? Or would they actually exist? If you were this programmed being of free will and self realization, how would you know you were just an illusion composed of electrons?

[sinewave]

heh, well said EWright.

 

Sort of wondering why we want this created AI 'conscious individual' to interact with us, when we already have others like us?

 

Or why a higher consciousness would want to interact with such transient waving-space constructs (call them ‘electrons’ if you wish).

 

Are we to be slaves, or just curious transient playthings of an 'actual mind'?

 

(not interested in pat 'answers', of course, as there are none)

[Qfwfq]

Better in my hands than yours is my motto.

Nooooo!!!

 

It's better in my hands than yours! :hihi:

[nkt]

Nooooo!!!

 

It's better in my hands than yours! :hihi:

I think not. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

No-one has said what absolute knowledge would do, but I think it would bring absolute contempt.

 

The more I learn, the less good I feel about much of what I see. Distributed systems are far more flexible and often more effective, both from a costs perspective and a rights perspective. Distributed security is a great way to ensure a society is safe and secure, whereas a central police force has a lot of trouble being everywhere at once, and a police state? Well, they tend to go the other way, and end up fighting even morally upright members of society.

 

:eek: for everyone capable of proving they are decent and safe. Likewise for knowledge.

[infamous]

Nooooo!!!

 

It's better in my hands than yours! :hihi:

Therein exists the human struggle, how to share the power???

[Qfwfq]

;)

[Qfwfq]

;) for everyone capable of proving they are decent and safe.

Who proves they are decent and safe and how?

[MEL555]

See how quickly we drift away from the thread topic?

Back to the topic. ;)

 

There is no self.

The self implies something permanent.

 

If you dont mind the word "moment", you

can follow this. You may follow this text just

for a few seconds while you read it.

Then, if you see it, you will put this text aside

completely and

move on COMPLETELY ON YOUR OWN

in the energy field of the non permanent, the only reality.

 

Moment A is recorded..moment B is taking-place/being-recorded...

giving rise to the illusion that something persists.

 

The sense of that process we call the self, the "I".

It also gives rise to the illusion of time. The second hand

on the clock only changes position.

 

When one looks at this process, really(not intellectually)

FEAR comes in for most people.

 

Let it pass.

 

Dont expect a reward. Expecting a reward prevents

the release from the illusion. Self will not end self.

Thought, as something that persists, will not end thought

as something permanent.

DO NOT STRUGGLE WITH ANY CHATTER that remains.

 

IT has its own quality. Right words are hard to find... :eek:

 

You will discover that the "I" is also misery.

~

~

i welcome a blast. i can take it. ;)

;)

[jerryo]

Each one of my emotions, thoughts, desires, movements, decisions, etc., is an event in nature, and is a part of the overall chain of causes. Yet, in an amazing and very arrogant way, I decide that I am "a kingdom within a kingdom" (Spinoza). That is, I perceive myself as an independent and autonomous center of consciousness, creator of its own thoughts and decisions and cut off from the world.

 

Only the sense of the I -- the absolute illusion of the ego -- can know itself or think itself. The ego is a byproduct of mental activity, of thought, of the act of knowing, and it wants to know itself beyond knowledge.Ego Wants to become Real This is like the reflection in a mirror trying to be a concrete material object in three dimensions. The quest for liberation, the desire to know liberation is, of course, doomed and self-contradictory, yet, at the same time, very pleasurable, because by so doing the ego experiences itself, thus increasing and reinforcing itself. As Spinoza says, everything in nature wants to persevere in its own being, and to reinforce it.

 

(from a u.g. krishnamurti interview) ;)

[infamous]

Each one of my emotions, thoughts, desires, movements, decisions, etc., is an event in nature, and is a part of the overall chain of causes. Yet, in an amazing and very arrogant way, I decide that I am "a kingdom within a kingdom" (Spinoza). That is, I perceive myself as an independent and autonomous center of consciousness, creator of its own thoughts and decisions and cut off from the world.

 

Only the sense of the I -- the absolute illusion of the ego -- can know itself or think itself. The ego is a byproduct of mental activity, of thought, of the act of knowing, and it wants to know itself beyond knowledge.Ego Wants to become Real

I can agree with these points that you make here jerryo.

This is like the reflection in a mirror trying to be a concrete material object in three dimensions.

However, with this point I must disagree. For you see, we are on this side of the mirror. We are not the reflection, but the reflection does have a purpose,it proves our existence.

The quest for liberation, the desire to know liberation is, of course, doomed and self-contradictory,

I don't know if I understand the meaning of this remark?

yet, at the same time, very pleasurable, because by so doing the ego experiences itself, thus increasing and reinforcing itself. As Spinoza says, everything in nature wants to persevere in its own being, and to reinforce it.

 

(from a u.g. krishnamurti interview) ;)

A few rather good points and a couple ambigious remarks.

[jerryo]

quote : "The quest for liberation, the desire to know liberation is, of course, doomed and self-contradictory, " (ugk)

 

I don't know if I understand the meaning of this remark? (infamous)

 

 

...that particular remark revolves around the so called 'enlightenment crowd'.

alot of people wish to be liberated from suffering in life.

so they look for 'liberation' from their life problems by seeking "enlightenment"

..or 'a way out' of suffering(emotional/psychological,etc)

 

that is what is meant there...

 

kinda like dorothy in the wizard of oz...

she imagined something better than her mundane and at times troublesome life,

so she sought an escape to a a better place...

..a place that does not exsist ..a land called oz

 

there is no liberation,there is no 'enlightenment',there is no better place.

life is what it is...for better or for worse

 

 

;)

 

 

You are the mirror on which everything appears and is experienced ;)

 

...i have probably spent to much time studying psychology...so my remarks tend to

run far out into left field.

 

psychology is childs play...i want to know more about gravity ;)

[infamous]

 

psychology is childs play...i want to know more about gravity ;)

You should find several good threads on the subject here at Hypography, help yourself.

[MEL555]

i am really disapointed!!!

 

i nailed IT. Better than UGK. ;)

 

I didnt get a blast or a question. ;) ;)

 

My words are NOT high sounding......or are they???

 

i dont know what you see. ;)

 

i look at my previous post and

didnt have an urge to delete it...this is very unusual for me.

 

i think it is a jewel.

BLAST ME.

.

[jerryo]

MU !

 

 

Haaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

 

;)

[MEL555]

Gravity is easy.

 

Gravity is acceleration. It is NOT a force.

You can prove THAT with a ball on a string!!

 

Easy.....

;)

[jerryo]

what is inside this body that causes me to fell like i have weight ?

 

i am not made of metal! (although i like heavy metal music)

 

where is the great magnet ?

 

if i dug down halfway to the core...would i feel like i am heavier ?

 

what is going on here...

[MEL555]

MU !

 

 

Haaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

 

;)

 

back to the topic ! THE NON-EXISTENT "i"

 

What does MU mean?

 

Blast me.

Thanks in advance ;)