Chewbalka Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 I am really trying to focus on this issue i have with time lol... As in i am trying to define time in other ways besides a clock. And i contemplated this. Has our evolution on our planet effected our life span? Meaning if our planet spun faster or slower would we evolve to coincide with it? Live shorter or longer lives? Would another alien species on a planet that had a 48 hour day live twice as long as we do? Or a twelve hour day live half as long? As well as corresponding yearly orbits lol!!! Is this even plausible? Would it effect anything? It must we count on our sun so therefore evolved to live with its schedule lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbalka Posted October 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 To explain a tade bit more! For instance in order to survive a 48 hour day you would require a slower metabolisim. You would sleep more as well as stay awake more? As well in the opposite idea the exact opposite... Kinda makes sense. Now if this is so time can not be a linear line its adjustable and flexible to your perceived view. Its a small step for me to change my opinion lol Any thoughts? Anyone lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 I am really trying to focus on this issue i have with time lol... As in i am trying to define time in other ways besides a clock. And i contemplated this. Has our evolution on our planet effected our life span? Meaning if our planet spun faster or slower would we evolve to coincide with it? Live shorter or longer lives? Would another alien species on a planet that had a 48 hour day live twice as long as we do? Or a twelve hour day live half as long? As well as corresponding yearly orbits lol!!! Is this even plausible? Would it effect anything? It must we count on our sun so therefore evolved to live with its schedule lol!As I understand your question, my answer would be no. My reason is for most animal systems on earth make use of a cardiovascular system with a beating heart at the center. The dominant factor on determining aging is the rate at which a heart beats. At one end are little creatures like hummingbirds which have very fast beating hearts. The opposite end example are sea turtles which have slow beating hearts. We are somewhere near the middle. Were our planet to rotate at half the speed then a "day" would be 48 hours long not 24. Now if you put forth an argument that slower rotation gives a slower diurnal rate thus a slower circadian rhythm, then maybe there is some effect. This is definitely not straight forward. Were the year be twice as long then our orbit would be closer to that of mars, thus our temperatures be quite a bit colder. maddog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbalka Posted November 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 I agree maddog cant argue that... I need another example to get this idea in my mind lol... I tried the example of two space ships traveling at the speed of light side by side Youtube example: http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=KHjpBjgIMVk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKHjpBjgIMVk The part that screws with my mind is that the speed of light is not nessecary to view this... If this was a vehicle traviling down the road at 20 miles per with a ball traversing up and down a track mounted to the car at one interval per lets say 30 seconds. It would appear to do the exact samething... Its not because its traviling through time... Maybe this is a poor example... I don't know... Anyone got a better example? Or perhaps clear this one up in my mind... It just seems to me relative is or has been twisted to prove something else... I want to understand time travel!!! Lol it just seems so nutty to me... Yet so many agree to this idea... So obviously i must be the one who does not understand. Need info people remember keep it simple!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwulf Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 The dominant factor on determining aging is the rate at which a heart beats. Actually that has very little to do with ageing, unless you believe everything is determined and everything has a certain amount of heartbeats. The reason why we age has to do with free radicals, deteriorate molecules giving up electrons which destroy skin cells. Chewbalka 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwulf Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Now, the reason why things live longer than other things has to do with metabolic rate. There is a tree called Methuselah. It is the oldest tree known, which is about 4000 years and still lives because it has a very slow metabolic rate. For more on free radicals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-radical_theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon_v2.0 Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) I'll give you a simple reason you have a hard time rationalizing "Time" as in 60 seconds, 24 hours ,7 days, 12 months... Or in any Quantitative fashion Because the Human Brain Remembers events in terms of "Moments" You remember 'Moments' in time, not the actual Scientific Clock Time...You do NOT remember every hour of a 9-5 shift you punch into at work... BUT you do remember certain significant events at moments of something occurring... "Take care of the minutes, for the hours will take care of themselves" - Lord Chesterfield "Let the Past drift away" - Japanese Proverb "This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we know what to do with it" - Ralph Waldo Emerson Edited November 3, 2012 by Racoon_v2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbalka Posted November 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) I see! So how does one think of time differently Racoon? I admit I only view time as change not much more then that...As in things change from moment to moment. Edited November 3, 2012 by Chewbalka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwulf Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I see! So how does one think of time differently Racoon? I admit I only view time as change not much more then that...As in things change from moment to moment. Well maybe I can change your train of thought. I'd link you to my own essay here (which I need to finish at some point) but instead I will link you to prof. Julian Barbour. Time does not mean change - in fact we live in a timeless universe http://www.fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/360 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbalka Posted November 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 I have gave your link a read and I conclude that time is not real in the sense of how we think... And in order to think of time as time is not possible. It seems as though it is trying to say that time only exists because we made it so... I originally thought this process from the beginning of the post... I am assuming that I have terribly misunderstood the link. Overall to contemplate time one must view the entire universe at once... I know i can not do such a thing I can picture an inaccurate shape of the universe in my mind lol but thats about it! Aethelwulf can you clarify my misunderstandings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwulf Posted November 5, 2012 Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 I have gave your link a read and I conclude that time is not real in the sense of how we think... And in order to think of time as time is not possible. It seems as though it is trying to say that time only exists because we made it so... I originally thought this process from the beginning of the post... I am assuming that I have terribly misunderstood the link. Overall to contemplate time one must view the entire universe at once... I know i can not do such a thing I can picture an inaccurate shape of the universe in my mind lol but thats about it! Aethelwulf can you clarify my misunderstandings? That's not a bad summary. Basically, what Julian is doing is removing time but not the changes which happen in the universe - He looks at these changes in a Global Sense. In relativity, there is actually no such thing as a Global Time, which comes about from the timelessness inherent in relativity. However, Julian does something quite smart - he is looking at the changes of all the individual moving systems in the universe - clocks. Matter can only act as clocks however, if our universe was rich in only radiation, we would not have moving clocks at all - photons after all don't experience any time pass. So Julian says, change occurs, time does not exist. Therefore, time and change are actually not synonymous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbalka Posted November 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2012 Wow i kinda got it! Lol i am proud of myself i usually look like a deer in headlights while reading these things lol ill keep contemplating things on this topic in relation to what i have just learned. Thanks Aethelwolf you are the first person to teach me something on this fourm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam yax Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Speaking of time and it's relation to the planet spin rate. Clearly time is just time, regardless of spin, but you mention how we've evolved to a specific day. They found a planet around alpha centauri. It's a three star system, and the planet they found is pulled by all three. It's no where near the goldilocks zone, quite bit closer to it's main sun, but it spins so fast that a year is only three days long, but it is earth mass. Life evolving there would have a completely different sense of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwulf Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 The sense of time passing has something to do with how fast a planet spins, however, there is an underlying biological reason as well. It will have to do with their biological makeup. Here on Earth, the common denominator of why things ''sense time'' has to do with two gene regulators. Say there is life on that distant planet in Alpha Centuri, they would require a biological system which would give them their sense of time. One of these gene regulators allow humans to adapt to the 24 hour clock cycle... actually it is a little less, something like 23.3 hours. Another one is responsible for our short duration of time, which, has little to do with the spinning planet in general. That is just how we sense time go by ---- with all this said, time is still an illusion. There is no past or future, we have a memory to know a past and future because we are intelligent recording devices - when we experience an event, we log it as memory and call it our ''past'' but when we remember an event, there is no such thing as going back in time to recall this event. We are actually recreating this event in real time, present time moments. Everything seems to be stuck in the present time and the greatest illusion is that we think there is some past before us and some future ahead of us. There is only the present time, an eternal ever-lasting it seems, present moment, which some times, due to the gene regulators, seems to go faster and slower for us... But this is just the chemistry of the brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbalka Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 So i was kinda on the right path on the first post i started in this topic... Except there are limitations in order for advanced life to evolve. I would assume if conditions were right basic life forms could form on the planet you discussed earlier orbiting Alpha Centauri. But advanced life would have a rather difficult if not impossible time getting started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwulf Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) So i was kinda on the right path on the first post i started in this topic... Except there are limitations in order for advanced life to evolve. I would assume if conditions were right basic life forms could form on the planet you discussed earlier orbiting Alpha Centauri. But advanced life would have a rather difficult if not impossible time getting started. Well, when I say the rotation on Earth has something to do with ageing, I actually meant this in a biological way - the body for instance has evolved with a specific internal clock which helps us measure what we think is time. Biology has adapted over many years to achieve what it can today, but doing so, it had to adapt to the 24 hour clock. Life in sea can be much more diverse, we have creatures in the water that does not even rely on 24-hour clocks, for some of these creatures don't even sleep at all. So life is very diverse, not all have came to this understanding of a 24-hour system, so for many of these lifeforms, we can't really say the rotation of the Earth has much to do with their evolution. Their evolution wouldn't care about the rotation of Earth or times to rest. In Relativity, it is hard to say whether the spin of the Earth would affect anything at ''rest'' on it. The speed of time is like calculating the speed of consciousness. You only apply Lorentz contraction on time to systems which appear to move, but on our frame of reference, we are actually stationary to the Earth. A bizarre conclusion. So really, I don't think the rotation has any physical effects on ageing in any significant way, only the mass of the Earth is responsible for any gravitational effects on our time pass, or by moving very fast on a concord, time dilation passes at what should be expected for us most of the time. Locally, time doesn't step out of place for any observer - that is, unless determined by how the brain's speed is moving. Two people locally may disagree for instance, on how long an event went for. A good example, if one person enjoyed the event and another didn't, one could argue the fun passed by too quickly, while another said it went on for too long. No matter what relativity does, it cannot say that the experience of time is ever the same and that has to do strictly with chemistry inside the brain, these so-called ''gene regulators'' which help us understand the distinction of a past event and a present event, and even those events yet to happen. Edited November 9, 2012 by Aethelwulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwulf Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 sorry fixed the ''had to do with ageing'' bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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