Balloon model for the expanding universe...

[pgrmdave]

if everything is moving away from each other, then there is some point at the center of that expansion

 

This is simply not true. It is not only possible for there to be no center, but it is most likely. Imagine the universe as a loaf of raisin bread baking. As the bread bakes, it expands. The raisins all move away from each other, but that motion is not centered. It is simply that the dough (space) is expanding the distance between the raisins (galaxies).

 

Now, the question becomes is it testable. What would differ if all galaxies were moving rather than the space between them expanding. Well, if the galaxies were simply moving, then the red shift of a galaxy would simply be based on its relative motion to us, while if it was the space expanding, then it would be linked to the distance between the galaxies, because the space would increase geometrically, i.e. - distance x becomes distance 2x, not distance x + 1. This means that the greater the distance, the faster we should see them moving away, and the greater the red shift. When we test that, we see that the farther away a galaxy, the greater the red shift, which would seem to suggest that it is space that is expanding, and not galaxies moving away from a central point.

[Qfwfq]

The raisins all move away from each other, but that motion is not centered.

Only if the loaf of bread is boundless and the distribution more or less homogenous. I don't mean to be picky, I think instead this point is where C1ay goes wrong and draws the conclusion there must be a centre.

 

When we test that, we see that the farther away a galaxy, the greater the red shift, which would seem to suggest that it is space that is expanding, and not galaxies moving away from a central point.

Not moving away from a central point, OK, but that space is expanding isn't really determined in the flat case, only suggested. The difference would only be a choice of atlas.

 

If instead we could determine that space is a hyperspherical surface, that would have implications. Either observe the global topology or, not much easier, measure pi for very large a radius and see if it decreases with increasing r. In this case there would be a physical meaning to "expanding space", at least referred to the overall manifold. I would not conclude that Brooklyn is expanding, even upon such evidence.

[emessay]

The consequence of balloon model for the expanding universe would be 'equivalent' when we 'just conscious 500 yrs ago' in discovering that earth is 'spherical balloon'.

 

When I encircle 'earth balloon' let's say from Jakarta straightly, I am going to meet 'myself' again in same point........back to Jakarta......

 

So probably when I am able to encircle 'universe balloon' from earth straightly through in deep space, I will meet 'myself' again at same our earth.........but after 13.7 bya.... ;) ;)

[Qfwfq]

The consequence of balloon model for the expanding universe would be 'equivalent' when we 'just conscious 500 yrs ago' in discovering that earth is 'spherical balloon'.

Did Ptolemy, Aristarcus and a few others live only 500 years ago?

[emessay]

Did Ptolemy, Aristarcus and a few others live only 500 years ago?

 

You're right , but my references are Bartholomeus Diaz and Columbus around 500 yrs ago in their proven journey encircling our blue pale dot in human searching of 'A NEW CONSCIOUS EARTH' and now we're hardly thinking of 'A NEW CONSCIOUS UNIVERSE '.

[Qfwfq]

Columbus' proven journey did not encircle our blue pale dot. He thought he had reached India and it wasn't until Amerigo Vespucci that it was considered a whole new continent. Why do you think it's called America and why do you think the Natives were called Indians?

[emessay]

Columbus' proven journey did not encircle our blue pale dot. He thought he had reached India and it wasn't until Amerigo Vespucci that it was considered a whole new continent. Why do you think it's called America and why do you think the Natives were called Indians?

 

Yes, Ptolemy, Aristarchus , Copernicus, Kepler, .........then Diaz, Columbus, Amerigo ....finally Yuri Gagarin .....to prove that earth is spherical one......but.... Earth is still one maybe the last one Earth........do we think we have another earth ?.........do we think we have another 'Universe balloon' ? .......do we think we have no centre of universe ?........... ;)

[Qfwfq]

Do we think Earth is an inflating balloon, getting bigger and bigger?

[Queso]

Do we think Earth is an inflating balloon, getting bigger and bigger?

nope.

somehow we are a 3d sphere on a flat surfaced universe.

i still don't understand this ;) ;) :D :D :D :D

[Biochemist]

Do we think Earth is an inflating balloon, getting bigger and bigger?

No, but some of us living on it seem to be.

 

I had to start running to maintain my high-fat lifestyle. Discussion of inflating ballons is depressing.

[emessay]

Do we think Earth is an inflating balloon, getting bigger and bigger?

 

Well, do we think we've ever 'CONSCIOUS' some 10,000 - 100,000 years ago ???

Why do we have 'our conscious earth ' inflating like balloon getting bigger and bigger scope of mind ??

 

Do we think 'we' will maintain 'our conscious earth' in next 10,000 - 100,000 years ?? Do we think we will escape on Alpha Centauri planet in next 100 yrs ?? What's alternative cheap energy without expensive oil now ?

 

So .....our consciousness is now inflating like balloon getting bigger and bigger scope, do we think Pithecantropus Erectus some 100,000 yrs ago is ' a conscious primate' ???