Whitestar Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 In the excellent book entitled, “The Physics of Star Trek” by Lawerence Krauss, states that in order to convert matter into energy, one must heat it up to 1000 billion degrees!!! 1) If we were to accept the premise of the show, would heating the crew members up to 1000 billion degrees be necessary in order to convert them into energy? 2) Is there another way to theorically convert matter into energy without heating it up to such high temperatures? I had a conversation with other Trek fans on discussion forums regarding the Next Generation episode entitled, “Realm of Fear” in which Geordi underwent the transporter process and during the procedure, he claimed that his visor picked up patterns from the matter-energy conversion process, but he obviously hasn't given this much thought. No technological device (or biological optic nerve) can function when it's been partially or wholly converted to energy! It is impossible for Geordi's visor to function normally during the matter-energy process. One of them stated that although Geordi may not be conscious during the transport process when converted into energy, he will regain it once his energy converts back into matter, that is, he will be the same EXACT person, right before he step onto the transporter platform, NOT a replica implanted with the original person's memories and experiences. Basically what they were saying was that as long as it is Geordi’s energy and not the energy of a nuclear reactor, then he will survive because the electromagnetic brainwave signature is the same. I must admit that I am intrigued by the concept, however, I disagree and said that energy is energy, therefore, it doesn’t matter where it comes from. In addition, once Geordi’s energy reconverts back into matter, a new individual would literally be born from that energy, implanted with the original person’s memories and experiences. Perhaps it’s a matter of semantics; a replica may be an imprecise term. The assumption is that the Geordi who steps off the transporter pad will for all intent and purpose be the exact same as the person who stepped on, with all his physical features, thought processes, personality and memory, even his brainwave patterns -- but under this technological theory, it will still be a reconstruction of the original, NOT the original. Here’s a simple and elegant way of looking at it. If I find a rock in my backyard, digitally measure it to exact dimensions, then pulverize it, remelt it, pour that form into a precise copy mold of the original and apply equivalent pressures to when it was created, I may have the same looking rock with all the same physical properties, but it will be a new rock. 3) What does everybody else think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 First of all, WELCOME to the Hypography forums Whitestar! We are glad to have you onboard. I agree that <u>The Physics of Star Trek</u> is an excellent book for the trekkie and non-trekkie alike. I am not sure on the temps. required to convert the matter into energy, but you are right in saying that a person undergoing transportation would NOT be able to sense or remember anything of the experience because for one your brain would not be there to process and record the information! One thing that would probably be a big problem is reorganizing the person correctly. As Lawrence Krauss I believe points out, the amount of information that would have to be saved about the makeup of the person would be huge. He says that you would have to have a stack of 10gb hard drives ten thousand light years high to store all the data to put a human back together While teleportation is theoretically possible, I think it is safe to say we will never be able to use it to transport humans. For more information, check out our Hypography on this subject HERE Regards, Noah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatty_ashy Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 hi...don't mind me for saying this, but i thought that according to quantum teleportation, the infomation from something would be communicated to another piece of matter, making a perfect replica. And it will not be the same exact person because the original would have completely disrupted while infomation was being extracted, so even IF a person was teleported, it would a completely new person. I got a website on quantum teleportation Here someone please tell me if i'm wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 You are correct about the copying bit, but I am not sure about the replica/original. this discussion is actually taking part over two threads, maybe we should merge them. Good link, though. Thanks. In quantum teleportation two objects B and C are first brought into contact and then separated. Object B is taken to the sending station, while object C is taken to the receiving station. At the sending station object B is scanned together with the original object A which one wishes to teleport, yielding some information and totally disrupting the state of A and B. The scanned information is sent to the receiving station, where it is used to select one of several treatments to be applied to object C, thereby putting C into an exact replica of the former state of A. Let's explain...note - the "former" state of A. The difference between quantum and classical teleportation is that in quantum teleportation you only transfer the quantum state of a single particle onto another particle - which means you _move_ the information from one particle to another, instantly. In the process, the quantum state of the initial particle is disrupted. So the particle onto which the state has been transferred, is a replica, yes - but the original particle has lost the quantum state it was in. As a classical analogy, it's like sending a sheet of printed paper through a fax. At the other end of the line, another fax prints out a copy - but your own paper goes blank in the process. Tormod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Ah...should have noted that the quote is NOT from fatty_ashy, but from the page he linked to. Sorry about that. Tormod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 There is a way through warp mechanics. If one were able to expose all the center points of measurement in the body and accelerate them to the speed of light cubed it could be done without heating them up. Imagine falling through a black hole then be accelerated through one with the reverse effects. Matter would have to travel faster than it's own reflection. Other wise there would be no uni-center point of measure for the original centers to reform around. The uni- center would act as a blue print of the original homeo-static positioning. Then the exposed centers would draw form themselves the nessasary units of matter to keep the ultimate structure of material flesh stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatty_ashy Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 hey sharky, is there anything warp mechanics DOESN'T cover?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
administrator Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 well, if E=MC^2 then wouldn't it be possible to propel a human at light speed. if atoms are the building block of matter then wouldn't it be the same atoms arranged in exactly the same order as when the person is transported, just trasported from one place to another at the speed of light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 I think the point in relativity is that only energy can travel at the speed of light, not objects. Tormod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oracle Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 so therefore the objects have to be transformed into energy "refering to the speed of light statement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 Yes, exactly. that's why it is impossible to accelerate anything to the speed of light, because in the process it will turn into energy. Tormod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 Whitestar originally wrote, above:in order to convert matter into energy, one must heat it up to 1000 billion degrees!!! It strikes me that this cannot possibly be correct. All you need to turn matter into energy is to heat up the matter - that's what happens in every fireplace around the world. Also, the core of the sun, in which energy is created by fusion, the temperature is around 15 million Kelvin - far from the 1000 billion degrees in the quote. Sun Facts I realize that this is energy from a _process_ which causes the creation of new forms of matter (for example, making helium out of hydrogen, turning wood into ashes, etc) and the heat is radiation from the process. But what exactly is meant by "to convert matter into energy"? When you turn on a flashlight, isn't that a conversion of matter (the matter in the battery) into energy? (A bit off-topic, considering we are talking about teleportation here, but hey...) Tormod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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