LayDominican

I just wanted to take the time to wish everyone a happy and safe holiday. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year:angel2:

I just wanted to wish everyone a very happy and safe holidays. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year...Lay:angel2:

I don't know if you knew this, but Mary Magnellen is Patroness of the Dominican Order. The Dominicans have a special Mass in her honor. Many have said that she was the whore to be stoned.Others have said that she was the sister of Martha.Still others believe that she was a rich woman living in Magnellen.She remains a mystery even today.

Infinite, I was more interested in what you thought about the specials. I came away from the specials with what I thought they would be. Some of the historians said that the Gnostics and others wrote these new gospels to expound the "truth" as they saw it. Like yourself, I like the program too.

I am waiting for any remarks at all about NG tv specials about Jesus and Judas

Buffy, Meaning no disrespect for your opinions, I do vehemently disagree. As a Roman Catholic, there are certain things we believe that are very much dear to the heart and soul of what we believe. Jesus being gay, the 2nd person of the Most Holy Trinity, God, would not be gay. He would not be married, would not have brothers and sisters, etc etc etc. For those who have read the Gnostic gospels and so forth accept a different Christ, a different style of living, well, that is on them. As I believe, I know that someone will read this , call me closed mind, and some other names, and then what? I will answer that message, and so the debate is on. I do not preach here as it is against the rules.However, I will speak out loudly against those who will disgrace, will smear my beliefs.

I was going to answer Turtle and others with a rage in my heart and soul. But then I calmed down and decided to write this little note. When it comes to my Faith I will rise to protect it. When it comes to looking at different faiths and the style and beliefs that they have, I am very open minded. You claim that you do not like those who believe trying to stuff what they believe down your thoat, where here you are doing the very same thing to us. Jesus was married, Jesus was a magician, Jesus was bi-sexual and a host of other things that a believer would find disgraceful to say the least.So don't on here and write about what the believers do

IN, I would have thought that you would have more knowledge in the workings of the Catholic Church and how we believe and what the process is involved in the making of such things as doctrine and dogma. The Pope is infallible when speaking, using sitting on the Chair of Peter, of matters of faith for the Church. But, like any other head of state, which the Pope is, he may speak on other matters as he sees them. The Pope is not infallible everytime he opens his mouth. Only Gnostics, Agnostics, and atheists are permitted that honor.

I have already seen some of the scenes in this NatG special. And once again we hear of the same old wives tales. The body of Jesus was stolen. That as a child, Jesus may made clay mounds on the sabbath, and we called on it , he made the mounds turn to birds. And then we see Jesus and Peter kneeling at the foot of the cross and Jesus said he faked his death. Just more and more of the same tales.Because the National Geographic has put its monkier on it, it must be true,right? I still believe that these are books written by people who wanted to disprove the New Christianity and the true teachings of the Apostles. How anyone can tell me that the Apostles had the smarts to steal the body of Christ, get Chrit's mother to agree, and on the strength of a lie go to the deaths for a religion that was false.

Turtle, First, if you think that any Dominican begins and ends his studies from one book, then maybe you should be called a turtle. The question I asked of you, is where do you get your information about Jesus from? Where is your evidence? How do you know without a doubt that Jesus was married, that he was bi? That he was just a very clever mage?Could be from books that we written by bitter people who witness their brand of religion loosing out to the truth. Ah, but I am sure you have read more books than just those that support your views. So, again, I will ask you were did you get you so called solid evidence about Jesus.And try to answer before Sunday, if you dont mind.

Turtle I don't care about you being sad. I don't care really what you have to say,now, about my religion. But what I want to know, where is your solid evidence that Jesus was just a clever mage? That he may have been bi? that he was married? Oh, that's right, you read it in a book. A book that may or may not have been written by the person you think wrote it. And everything in these books is true. Give me a break.

Turtle, I am tired of reading that because of some lost manuscripts that mention Jesus was married or Jesus was bi- or Jesus was somekind of magician. These books could have been written to discredit the new religion and not to enhance it. As a Roman Catholic I tire of all of this dirt being kicked on my Faith and the teachings of my Church. You ending paragraph may have made you laugh, but to me it angered me. However, I respect the rules of this site, and will not preach. I will not answer you lewd charges towards Jesus. Believe whatever you may, but at least have some respect for what someone might believe.

Buffy, The entire gay issue is hard for both me and my wife. My step-son is gay. And it is hard for us to maintain what the Church teaches, and to be a father and a mother.Don't get me wrong, we love our son very much. We have told him he is welcome in our house along with his friend anytime. and we have had long talks about the religious,moral and social issues. It is an open subject for the four of us (me, my wife, our son, and his friend). We have talked to our son privately about the idea of his getting married. As devoute Catholics we thought we would be doing wrong by attending. But we asked our Dominican advisor, and he said as long as it was not done within the Catholic Church, there would be no reason for us not to attend. We are not fundies, but we are devoute. there is a difference. Both my wife and I welcome others paths of life. The site I started "Christians vs. Non Christians" includes Hindus,Buddhists,gnostic, witches, wiccans, catholics and atheists, etc etc..And it has been discussing religion with them, that I have found myself growing deeper in my faith while at the same time, I have learned that there are many paths to walk. I guess that is why I am here. I come to this site and on this fourm to learn.If I have written to much here I am sorry. It is not my intention to preach anything at all. If you wish me to resign from this discussion, Buffy, I will with no ill feelings...Blessings and Peace....† Lay †

to InfiniteNow I am sorry for my rather rash words concerning the upcoming National Geographic tv special. I had read Turtle's post #79 and I was angry at his last paragraph and spoke out against the special and you, when I should have addressed myself to Turtle. I am not that blind that I think I know all there is to know, and no one can tell me anything more. Part of living is learning just how little you really know.I am humbled by your words, IN, and I hope will accept this reply as a note asking forgiveness for my angry words. I do look forward to discussing the special with you and the others on this site. I am sure there will be a lot to talk about. Humbly yours,......†Lay†:)

Saying Jesus was a rogue, talented magician and all of the other nice things that were said, brings me to why I dont bother to read such nonsense. There were many a Christian sect that wanted their point of view sealed in the teachings of the Church. Why is it not possible that these sects wrote these so-called "Gospels" to give them more of a true religious feeling? I believe that God governed all concern with the Bible, the Gospels, and the early teachings of the the Early Fathers of the Church. Period. Call me what you will. That is how I see it. I will watch this National Geographic pc to see what they know about a time in a person's life that will not matter much to us.

Once again we are witnessing the results of a free society. And it is just this kind of thing, a game selling at Christmas about killing non Christians. The real problem I have is the term Christians. As there are now over 35,000 different groups calling themselves Christians. As a Roman Catholic I sometimes wish they would just name the group(s) rather than just say Christian. When the Roman Catholic Church does something wrong, there is no problem naming who it was that did the wrong. As for the game, kids are being brainwashed at school, on tv. and on video games.Violence doesnot take much to teach. It is the nothing the difference between what is right and what is wrong, when some actions are needed and when they are just cruel inhuman acts by people who don't care about what the kids see or hear.:)

dov henis I donot how to respond I thought this was a thread on how to keep religious beliefs from escalating into violent conflict.The Sudan, Chad and other small countries in Africa are power kegs looking to explore into conflicts that will involved all of Africa. I have been reading up on Sudan so that I could answer you in the limits of this thread. I cannot. For it is more than a religious conflict. It is for money and power. The President today spoke on the Sudan. Basically he said that it was a shame, but something had to be done. And that was all that he said. Something should be done.Like Rhawda. All the world said that it was horrific, but did nothing to stop the killing, just got their own people out of harm's way. I am not the arnswer man. I read my religious books, and try to understand why people believe what they believe and why they do what they do in the name of that religion. My heart aches for those in Sudan, and Chad, and in sections of India, where they still have kept the caste system and have hindered religiiou missionaries there with new laws regarding converting to a new religion. That is because the main "caste" members converting are the untouchables. Religion may set a man free from the degress of a poverty that is so brutal that it is hard to believe. As for genocide in Sudan, what would you suggest, within the framework of the two questions Buffy has asked. Believe me, I am not trying to be a smartass. I have no idea what to do, and I am hoping maybe you could suggest something.

Dov I am not saying that there hasnot been anyplace where the government has stepped in to kill on the whim. We have toppled a govenment that did just that. What I did say, that in a free society it would be next to impossible. Right in the United States we have "political" prisoners enjoying the confines thanks to the US Marines in Getmo.Our government calls them prisoners of war, and thus they have no status. We intervene in WWII with the Japaneses Americans.It is a shame that the US has not lived down yet.So what are we to do? Must we go around and arrest all people that may be Moslem or look like Arabs? Where does it stop? How about big brother watch what is written on the computer on sites like this? Now we exchange thoughts and information freely, but how longer do you think that will last before big brother is do just that? How much personal freedom are you willing to give up so that your government can "protect" you? Janis Joplin once sang: "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. Nothin', no nothin' is really free."

Dov How does a government interfer with a religious practice that may have the protential to erupt into violence. In a Free Society it almost next to impossible. I may be soft in heart, but I cannot understand punishing without actually engaging who did what and when.

Infinite now Sorry about the mistake. Of course I meant may or may not. Turtle, I donot wish to prohibit anyone from reading anybook book. However, it must be proven truthful. With the books that have been founded are already seen as truthful and that is where I have a problem. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

Once again, you are taken writings, that may or may be true and defending the right for them to be accepted by the Catholie/Christian religions. I would ask you why? What do they offer that makes the 4 Gospels weak or worst wrong in their teachings of Christ?

Buffy, If I can continue with just a thought that occurred as I read your post. What actions can we do to slow down or even derail any hostile actions due to religious differences. First, I think those of us who have never been expose to the Moslem faith should pick up a book(yes, they still make and sell books) and read about their lifestyles and so forth. If possible, do as Pope Benedict did and visit a mosque. Before visiting, go to the person in charge ( I can't for the life of me remember what their title is) explain why you are there, and to pray and give glory to God.See if you can gather some written information about the sect you are visiting. The name of the game is to learn. The computer can put mountains of information at your fingertips, but unless you know what it is you are looking for.....Nothing can beat the personal contact.. Knowledge is the key to unlock the door of understanding.

The Truth about Religion is simple. It has always been right in front of everyone, and yet no one takes the time to understand it, to see it. All of this nonsense about the nets and the number of fish, the feeding of the 5,000 and some code are like the people who took their good albums and played them backwards to reveal secret messages. Love God above all else, love your neighbor as yourself. these are the truth. these are the keys to salvation. It is not hard, nor does it need a code or hidden words etc, etc.Very simple.is it not?

I know that I am being provincial when I used the terms West and East. But I am referring to old fueds. Christianity vs. non-Christianity or Eastern religion and thought.I have not the power nor the williness to say that I speak for all Catholics nor do I know all Islamic sects. I am a novice speaking only what I have learned at my friends feet. And that I took that position willingly, for Father McCabe,O.P., at the time 70yrs, young undertook to teach me all that he knew. And this Dominican Friar knew more than anyone I had ever come across.And for the next 12 yrs or so, he taught me everyday. He taught me the ways of the Order. He taught me the way of the Order's missionaires. And I was luck enough to meet some of them. I am humbled to say that they were men of iron will, but hearts unlike any I had met. Kindness was in their eyes and in the words. And it was from them that I learned about Islamic ways, and how they think and what they think to a point. I have written in general what they taught me, for medication that I am on has robbed me of some of my memory.And Father McCabe has died, leaving me with a whole in my heart, for I looked upon him as I would my own Grandfather. Anyway, as there are more than just Christians and Moslems (i.e. Jews, Hindus, Buddhists,gnostics, agnostics, etc, etc) and where do they play in this drama. I write because a question was asked, and I have attempted to answer it. If I have failed to get my point across, I am sorry. It was not my intention to confuse nor to speak as one of know it all authority. I will humbly step down from my soapbox and allow others to speak. And I will learn from them.

Your questions, the title of this forum, Religion vs Religion, is for generalities and not for particulars. I used West vs East because in the eastern religion the value of life is much different than that of the West. It is the Islamic East that is training its murderous eyes towards. What are we to do? Are we to sit at a table and speak of peace and fellowship with a religion that has as its creed to wipe out those who do not believe in its way of life.To them it is a holy war, and one they intent to win. The West is not reacting fast enough. But more importantly, the best Army in the World, that is in the West, is being picked apart by a ragtag group of Islamic fighters who use women and children, the sick and lame to hide behind. The used the same to strap bombs on themselves to garner for themselves a higher place in heaven. This is a fact. it is not media hype. Just ask a returning vet, if they are willing to talk, just who is the enemy in Iraq. They will have the same far away look as the Viet Nam vet has. To have an American, or for that matter any young person from the West, to kill children, to kill that lame person coming towards you. Women so young themselves blowing themselves up for Allah. Tell me, how do you sit down and talk about peace and brotherhood with people like that.How can we know the truth when they speak. And what faction do they speak for.It is not that I dont want peace between religions. I do. For it will be my family that will be pressed into service. I look at my grandkids and I cry, for I know not what the future is for them.